17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[Chris_Texas]

It's just a little contradictory on his part considering he has made statements that he wouldn't try this case in the media yet every time you watch a news program, he's on it trying his case in the media, he's standing in front of a group of microphones trying his case in the media, he's being quoted in newspapers trying his case in the media. That's all. Sounds very hypocritical to me.


~jmo~

It's his job.

 

[csziggy]

That is fine.

Thanks! :seeya:

 

[suzihawk]

I disagree. This is going to trial whatever the SYG law might say. Or, I should say, it better go to trial or there is the potential for some real violence. It seems to me that a whole lot of folks -- particularly on the right -- are taking a perverse pleasure in defending both Zimmerman and this rather insane law, and going beyond that to outright provocation of people who have been remarkably patient thus far.

But you can only push so far. In this case, the black community has not only suffered through the death of a child and the police indifference that followed, but they have quietly tolerated a non-stop stream of attacks on the victim, attacks on the victim's family, and even outright racist hate posted on mainstream news websites and even the statements of public figures.

This case needs to go to trial. But that's only the beginning.

The people deserve and need real and complete answers as to what exactly happened within the law enforcement community. This nonsense needs to stop, the people responsible need to be in jail, and laws like this one (which, in my opinion, is good in theory) need serious clarification. As it stands, it might as well be called the "leave no living witnesses" law.

MOO etc

Excellent post - top to bottom! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I believe the Mayor's who requested certain elements to get released, yes. Like the 911 tapes and the videos.

So a Mayor can take over a police investigation and release evidence in it? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Emeralgem]

Excellent post - top to bottom! I couldn't agree more.

And I'm in total agreement.. BIG thanks to... Chris_Texas..

 

[LynnM]

Since he has seen the facts and we have not, I tend to believe GZ acted under the SYG law.Lee made a mistake saying GZ said "hey do you live here"instead of what TM gf said "what are you doing here" IMo not a big deal.If I spent 30 yrs doing my job with Le and people who had no idea of the facts of this case saying the police were not doing their job I would be annoyed too.JMO He is a scapegoat.

It's a huge deal to me! It makes it sound as if Zimmerman asked an innocent question and got attacked for it. If he genuinely wanted to know whether Trayvon was in the complex legitimately, then he could have rolled down the window and asked him while he was on the phone with LE. As we heard, he did not do that.

The friend reports that Trayvon asked why Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman does not tell him. Any reasonable person would be suspicious of someone who followed him. IMO, it was a reasonable question. Zimmerman could have defused the situation by saying, I'm a watch volunteer. Do you live here? Again he didn't do it. He didn't answer him, he asked his own question.

I believe this is because Zimmerman thought he already knew he was talking to a criminal and it never for one second occurred to him that he might be wrong.

There are two stories being told on behalf of Zimmerman by family members. One is that "Trayvon sneaked up behind him and asked if he had a problem and he said he didn't and was attacked. Another was that Trayvon said, "Why are you following me" and he said that he was not following him and that was a lie.

So I want to know just when George asked Trayvon, "Hey do you live here?" because I think he should have identified himself as a watch volunteer and asked just that if it was so important for him to know.

 

[Chris_Texas]

BBM
What if it were put forth that TM was trying to take control of the gun,and they were struggling over it. and that is why the shooting happened? Would that make a difference to you?

I am just wondering, not believing it for sure at this point. Just wondering.

Answering for myself...

NO. Of course not. In my opinion the minute Zimmerman escalated the situation he negated any right to claim self-defense as a justification for homicide. At that point the only person with any 'right' to a claim of self defense, or standing his ground, was Trayvon.

If Zimmerman escalated the situation, provoced the confrontation, then lost control of things, he does not then have the right (in my opinion) to claim that his loss of control justified Trayon's death.

It's like this. If I go running into a grade school with a chainsaw screaming at redline, and some heroic teacher tries to take it away, I am not then justified in killing the teacher and calling it self defense. Trayvon was the guy the stand your ground law addresses. He was the guy minding his own business, he was the guy who wasn't required to retreat, he was the person allowed to use any force necessary to defend himself from what hge likely believed was a homicidal maniac with a gun.

 

[uvamerica]

I disagree. This is going to trial whatever the SYG law might say. Or, I should say, it better go to trial or there is the potential for some real violence. It seems to me that a whole lot of folks -- particularly on the right -- are taking a perverse pleasure in defending both Zimmerman and this rather insane law, and going beyond that to outright provocation of people who have been remarkably patient thus far.

But you can only push so far. In this case, the black community has not only suffered through the death of a child and the police indifference that followed, but they have quietly tolerated a non-stop stream of attacks on the victim, attacks on the victim's family, and even outright racist hate posted on mainstream news websites and even the statements of public figures.

This case needs to go to trial. But that's only the beginning.

The people deserve and need real and complete answers as to what exactly happened within the law enforcement community. This nonsense needs to stop, the people responsible need to be in jail, and laws like this one (which, in my opinion, is good in theory) need serious clarification. As it stands, it might as well be called the "leave no living witnesses" law.

MOO etc

Great post !! :gthanks:

 

[CHICANA]

Well, if GZ were innocently walking back to his vehicle and not actually following Trayvon, then how did they end up face to face for him to ask Trayvon Do you live here as Chief Lee states that he did? Never mind we'll get back to that

How did Trayvon see the gun which was when the Police arrived secured in a holster in GZ's waistband and his jacket zipped up per FT?

Why would he think to struggle for a gun that he couldn't see? Unless he could see it because it was in GZ's hand....

The only way that this happens the way Chief Lee stated that it did is if GZ actively continues following Trayvon so that he could stop him and ask his questions...nothing else makes any sense, common sense or otherwise...and makes GZ the aggressor IMO JMHO and stuff.

He could have seen it if he was on top of GZ and GZ's jacket wasn't zipped.

 

[Sensei]

Answering for myself...

NO. Of course not. In my opinion the minute Zimmerman escalated the situation he negated any right to claim self-defense as a justification for homicide. At that point the only person with any 'right' to a claim of self defense, or standing his ground, was Trayvon.

If Zimmerman escalated the situation, provoced the confrontation, then lost control of things, he does not then have the right (in my opinion) to claim that his loss of control justified Trayon's death.

It's like this. If I go running into a grade school with a chainsaw screaming at redline, and some heroic teacher tries to take it away, I am not then justified in killing the teacher and calling it self defense. Trayvon was the guy the stand your ground law addresses. He was the guy minding his own business, he was the guy who wasn't required to retreat, he was the person allowed to use any force necessary to defend himself from what hge likely believed was a homicidal maniac with a gun.

Could not possibly agree more. SYG was not ever intended to protect those who CREATE the situation which causes someone to react with violence in fear for their own safety, and allow the creator of the situation to then claim that they are only defending themselves...and that is exactly what GZ did IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

He could have seen it if he was on top of GZ and GZ's jacket wasn't zipped.

If Zimmerman's jacket was not zipped then he was not carrying a concealed weapon.

 

[CHICANA]

Answering for myself...

NO. Of course not. In my opinion the minute Zimmerman escalated the situation he negated any right to claim self-defense as a justification for homicide. At that point the only person with any 'right' to a claim of self defense, or standing his ground, was Trayvon.

If Zimmerman escalated the situation, provoced the confrontation, then lost control of things, he does not then have the right (in my opinion) to claim that his loss of control justified Trayon's death.

It's like this. If I go running into a grade school with a chainsaw screaming at redline, and some heroic teacher tries to take it away, I am not then justified in killing the teacher and calling it self defense. Trayvon was the guy the stand your ground law addresses. He was the guy minding his own business, he was the guy who wasn't required to retreat, he was the person allowed to use any force necessary to defend himself from what hge likely believed was a homicidal maniac with a gun.

Do you think TM would have been justified in killing GZ for following him ?

 

[Emeralgem]

He could have seen it if he was on top of GZ and GZ's jacket wasn't zipped.

But..IIRC FT has already stated on national tv GZ's jacket was zipped..JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

So a Mayor can take over a police investigation and release evidence in it? I find that hard to believe.

That's what multiple city officials said, IIRC.

 

[Sensei]

He could have seen it if he was on top of GZ and GZ's jacket wasn't zipped.

So which is it, there are no blood stains, powder burns, wrinkles or grass stains on GZ's pristine light gray shirt in the Police video because he had his jacket zipped OR He didn't have his jacket zipped and somehow in rolling on the grass struggling with TM, he didn't get so much as a smudge or a wrinkle despite the fact that the jacket was unzipped and in fact in spite of the fact that his gun was in a waistband holster, it could be seen and his shirt didn't even come untucked while he and Trayvon struggled for it?

I don't like either suggestion, but that's just me. I have had more wrinkles and disarray from wrestling with an 89 year old alzheimers patient....I know what a struggle looks like and what I saw on that Police video isn't it IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[CHICANA]

If Zimmerman's jacket was not zipped then he was not carrying a concealed weapon.

If the jacket covered it up, it was concealed by definition.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I disagree. This is going to trial whatever the SYG law might say. Or, I should say, it better go to trial or there is the potential for some real violence. It seems to me that a whole lot of folks -- particularly on the right -- are taking a perverse pleasure in defending both Zimmerman and this rather insane law, and going beyond that to outright provocation of people who have been remarkably patient thus far.

But you can only push so far. In this case, the black community has not only suffered through the death of a child and the police indifference that followed, but they have quietly tolerated a non-stop stream of attacks on the victim, attacks on the victim's family, and even outright racist hate posted on mainstream news websites and even the statements of public figures.

This case needs to go to trial. But that's only the beginning.

The people deserve and need real and complete answers as to what exactly happened within the law enforcement community. This nonsense needs to stop, the people responsible need to be in jail, and laws like this one (which, in my opinion, is good in theory) need serious clarification. As it stands, it might as well be called the "leave no living witnesses" law.

MOO etc

So even if GZ acted within the law, you believe it has to go to trial just to appease the public?If there was a problem with law enforcement not doing their job correctly ,then it will come out and be dealt with.But IMO to say GZ even if covered under the SYG law needs to go to trial JMO is not what should happen under the law he should never have been arrested but due to outside groups and pressure he was.This is a very slippery slop for all of us IMO if the law can be disregarded just so there is no violence is blackmail to me.

 

[Sensei]

Do you think TM would have been justified in killing GZ for following him ?

By following a teenager at night, and continuing to follow him despite his attempts to get away, he CREATED the situation that if Trayvon had had a gun or any other kind of weapon he could have used SYG to defend himself if he had killed Zimmerman....I don't know if he would have been justified since I am not sure what level of fear he may have been in, but I am reasonably sure that Trayvon's fear would have been a great deal more reasonable, since he did not create the situation and actually attempted to get away. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[who]

IF we ever see any authenticated medical records showing that GZ did in fact have a broken nose, and that it was in fact broken the night of the incident, and not before and not after…I will be amazed and appalled that I have lived so long and seen so many similar injuries and never seen one that had no significant swelling and such minimal bleeding that it could be cleaned up in the back of a patrol car and be virtually unnoticeable 35 minutes later, and that the person sporting that broken nose could hold his head down, and move his head freely with no signs of distress or breathing problems.

I will also be fascinated and impressed to discover that TM could land a punch that did that kind of damage without doing himself an injury to his own hands…and completely underwhelmed that a grown man could be attacked by an unarmed teen who as far as has been reported has no formal training in boxing or martial arts and yet not be able to land a single blow that shows that he was in a struggle before he “HAD” to shoot him point blank in the chest.

I find the wording so similar, Do you live around here, and what are you doing around here that I do not have a problem connecting what Chief Lee claimed was said and what the girlfriend claims was said….

No matter which way I try to look at it, it is clear that there is no evidence what so ever that Trayvon was angry, or in a foul mood, spoiling for a fight or ready to punch someone out at the slightest provocation….and there is more than ample evidence and some of it from his own mouth that GZ WAS looking for trouble, and was convinced that he had already found some with some of those A@##$% that always get away, because this punk looked like he was on drugs or up to no good or something….it is not hard for me to determine who was MOST LIKELY to have been the aggressor in that situation and it was the man with the gun not the unarmed teenager…IMO JMHO and stuff.

My opinions are subject to change with credible evidence but thus far there is no credible evidence that points in another direction.

Post of the day/

 

[CHICANA]

I disagree. This is going to trial whatever the SYG law might say. Or, I should say, it better go to trial or there is the potential for some real violence. It seems to me that a whole lot of folks -- particularly on the right -- are taking a perverse pleasure in defending both Zimmerman and this rather insane law, and going beyond that to outright provocation of people who have been remarkably patient thus far.

But you can only push so far. In this case, the black community has not only suffered through the death of a child and the police indifference that followed, but they have quietly tolerated a non-stop stream of attacks on the victim, attacks on the victim's family, and even outright racist hate posted on mainstream news websites and even the statements of public figures.

This case needs to go to trial. But that's only the beginning.

The people deserve and need real and complete answers as to what exactly happened within the law enforcement community. This nonsense needs to stop, the people responsible need to be in jail, and laws like this one (which, in my opinion, is good in theory) need serious clarification. As it stands, it might as well be called the "leave no living witnesses" law.

MOO etc

I hope LE is ready to go after justice for all victims hurt by the idiots that resort to "real"
violence when things don't go their way.