17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Ninety5rpm]

Isn't that what you think happened?

I think a possible scenario, perhaps the most likely, is that because GZ was following TM, TM got angry and physically confronted GZ, to which GZ responded justifiably with deadly force.

But following someone does not justify such a reaction any more than wearing revealing clothing justifies rape.

And I don't think being physically confronted merely for following someone is sufficiently likely to warrant not doing it.

I have not looked at the NW documentation so don't know if it says not to following unrecognized/suspicious people in the neighborhood. But even if it does say that, that might be a reason for GZ to not be on NW, but it would not justify TM physically confronting GZ, if that's what happened, nor would it negate GW's right to defend himself, so I don't think there is very much legal relevance to this issue in this case.

 

[sleonardelli]

OT: Are websleuths authorized to send some of their sleuthing (i.e., the GZ 911 call w/possible gun loading sounds) to AC's team or JVM? I'm not talking about those of us who've commented on these questions, I'm talking of the originators of the topics. Perhaps it would give more context to the investigation. I'm new to sleuthing and I've seen some amazing speculation based on the evidence that is available. It would be a shame that some of these questions are overlooked by AC's team.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/trayvon-martin-case-sources-tell-wftv-police-wante/nLbjr/


"Police Capts. Darren Scott and Bob O'Connor will run the department during the absence of Bill Lee.

On Thursday Lee announced that he was temporarily removing himself as police chief.

WFTV’s Jeff Deal learned that Lee, just before he stepped down as chief, promoted five other officers.

The city manager confirmed the promotions and said the officers completed the promotion process at the end of last month.

Some of those promoted have been involved in cases that have made the news.

John Labree, John Foshee, and Steven Lynch were promoted to sergeant. Two current sergeants, Tony Esoss and Randy Smith were promoted to lieutenants.

Smith was head of investigations when George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

Steven Lynch was the officer who shot and killed suspect Nicholas Scott in 2010 after Scott allegedly tried to run him down.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement decided that the shooting was justified.

John Foshee made headlines that same year after someone stole his M4 assault rifle from his car in Volusia County.

Friday the city manager also introduced the two captains who will now lead the police department.

The captains were not allowed to answer questions."

AND

""The city’s new public relations person, Lisa Mosca, even ran from WFTV’s camera when reporter Jeff Deal tried to ask a few questions about the promotions.

The chief is continuing to collect his $100,000-a-year salary while on leave.

The city has also hired Massey Communications, a public relations firm, to help handle the Trayvon Martin situation, but the city is refusing to say how much it is paying the firm.""

 

[MaryAnn]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...bert-zimmerman-gated-community-security-guard

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.

I think this speaks volumes! He has a history of being a bully!!

 

[jaded cat]

I think it would be difficult for Zimmerman to give a lot of thought to those options, if Trayvon was on top of him, had him pinned down, continually banging his head into the concrete. His focus would be on trying to prevent a severe brain/head injury that could have possibly lead to death. IMO

If he had stayed in his truck and waited for LE to arrive, it never would have gotten that far. Actions have consequences.

 

[Donjeta]

I think a possible scenario, perhaps the most likely, is that because GZ was following TM, TM got angry and physically confronted GZ, to which GZ responded justifiably with deadly force.

But following someone does not justify such a reaction any more than wearing revealing clothing justifies rape.

And I don't think being physically confronted merely for following someone is sufficiently likely to warrant not doing it.

I have not looked at the NW documentation so don't know if it says not to following unrecognized/suspicious people in the neighborhood. But even if it does say that, that might be a reason for GZ to not be on NW, but it would not justify TM physically confronting GZ, if that's what happened, nor would it negate GW's right to defend himself, so I don't think there is very much legal relevance to this issue in this case.

MOO walking on the street while unrecognized does not justify such reaction. It just does not make any sense to go and chase down such people while armed.
They are either peaceful benevolent citizens who have every right to be there in which case you have scared and intimidated them for no reason at all and increased your own paranoia, and you may get into trouble if they think they must stand their ground or die, or they are dangerous criminals in which case you may get into trouble, and they may be quicker to shoot than you are.

 

[Karmady]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...bert-zimmerman-gated-community-security-guard

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.

I think this speaks volumes! He has a history of being a bully!!

Even if it were true, which is very questionable, imo, it will never, ever be considered by the Court, also imo. Afaik, even if true, there were no charges made and the alleged incident happened at least 7 years ago, when GZ was only 21 himself. Imo, there is absolutely no way a Judge finds that to be even remotely credible, relevant or probative.

 

[LambChop]

I think a possible scenario, perhaps the most likely, is that because GZ was following TM, TM got angry and physically confronted GZ, to which GZ responded justifiably with deadly force.

But following someone does not justify such a reaction any more than wearing revealing clothing justifies rape.

And I don't think being physically confronted merely for following someone is sufficiently likely to warrant not doing it.

I have not looked at the NW documentation so don't know if it says not to following unrecognized/suspicious people in the neighborhood. But even if it does say that, that might be a reason for GZ to not be on NW, but it would not justify TM physically confronting GZ, if that's what happened, nor would it negate GW's right to defend himself, so I don't think there is very much legal relevance to this issue in this case.

But that is highly speculative since TM was just trying to get home to watch the game and was on the phone with his gf when he asked GZ why he was following him and GZ did not answer him but asked the question, what are you doing here. It appears GZ was already in a highly agitated state when he met up with TM as we know that from GZ's call to the dispatcher. So agitated that he got out of his car to follow knowing full well he was not suppose to do that. So here he is out there LE asking him to meet officers at his car and what is the last thing he said....have them call me when they get here because GZ had no intention of going back to his car. He had already made up his mind to find TM and detain him if possible. How did he plan to do that? Why follow if he can't hold TM in one place? What good would it do if he already expected TM to book towards the back gate and get away? He had to keep TM from getting away until LE got there. That was what was in GZ's mind or why would he continue to follow when he claims he knew exactly where TM was headed????

It really is not a stretch to believe that GZ tried to keep TM in one spot while LE was on their way. No evidence that TM ever attacked GZ first and no reason to believe he had an incentive to do so. TM just wanted to get home per his conversation with the gf. TM had planned to watch the game with BG's son. GZ did not want TM to get away.

Given the fact that the investigator for the State feels that the information given by GZ is incorrect about what happened that night it becomes easier and easier to believe that GZ was just trying to keep TM from getting away. It is even easier to believe that TM fought back believing his life was in danger. jmo

 

[ladonna]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...bert-zimmerman-gated-community-security-guard

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.

I think this speaks volumes! He has a history of being a bully!!

Seven to nine years ago!! When he was 20?? I don't think that proves a pattern at all.

 

[grandmaj]

OK remember our rules. Speculation has to be based on some facts that we know. This whole thread has turned speculative again. Can we please get back to the facts. Thanks.

 

[shadowraiths]

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
CNBC, Wednesday, 25 Apr 2012 | 3:42 PM ET

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.​

Full article: click here

 

[Donjeta]

Even if it were true, which is very questionable, imo, it will never, ever be considered by the Court, also imo. Afaik, even if true, there were no charges made and the alleged incident happened at least 7 years ago, when GZ was only 21 himself. Imo, there is absolutely no way a Judge finds that to be even remotely credible, relevant or probative.

I agree that the issue is likely not to be raised in the court but 21-year-olds are adults imo.

 

[Reader]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/hardball/47034974#47165102

Then why did the judge sign it, if does not show sufficient probable cause?

Also, he is wrong about the grass 'stains', there were no stains, just loose grass on GZ's back.

This is just AD's opinion and does not make it true because we know Ms. Corey got the judge to sign it and GZ is up on the charge of 2nd degree murder.

 

[abbra]

I took a very long break after the Casey Anthony Case but I am back to comment especially on this Trayvon Martin Case.

1. What Neighborhood Watchman carries concealed weapons on them when they are out on their watch?

2. This case smells of corruption on the inside.

3. A family member works for judges and you can't believe the wheeling and dealing that goes on behind closed doors if you have connections in law enforcement and the court system in general. My big beef is with the American Justice System which needs a major overhaul.

3. An unarmed BOY was killed and someone is responsible. Black or white it shouldn't make any difference. An unarmed BOY dead.

4. Police told this boys killer to STOP FOLLOWING THE BOY AND GET BACK AND STAY IN HIS VEHICLE.

5. If you think Mr. O'Mara didn't know anything about zimmermans court apology to the parents of Trey Martin your mistaken. The bail hearing turned into a fiasco with Zimmerman trying to show remorse for killing Martin but anyone with a brain, doesn't buy his tactics. O'Mara knew damn well what zimmerman was up to when he put him on the stand. I never heard of anyone going to the Stand in Court at a bail hearing.

This whole case stinks.

 

[Sensei]

Even if it were true, which is very questionable, imo, it will never, ever be considered by the Court, also imo. Afaik, even if true, there were no charges made and the alleged incident happened at least 7 years ago, when GZ was only 21 himself. Imo, there is absolutely no way a Judge finds that to be even remotely credible, relevant or probative.

But we are not a Court, and I find it highly informative since I have no reason to believe that GZ was NOT at some point employed as a bouncer. That tells me that he is not unfamiliar with physical confrontations and IMO makes his story that he simply lay there like a wilted lilly while this 17 year old kid beat him into bloody oblivion even more unreasonable, and as I mentioned before I just don't believe that at all, not even a little bit.

 

[cityslick]

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
CNBC, Wednesday, 25 Apr 2012 | 3:42 PM ET

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.​

Full article: click here

That answers the question of how long he had a gun permit. Over 2 years.

 

[MaryAnn]

But that is highly speculative since TM was just trying to get home to watch the game and was on the phone with his gf when he asked GZ why he was following him and GZ did not answer him but asked the question, what are you doing here. It appears GZ was already in a highly agitated state when he met up with TM as we know that from GZ's call to the dispatcher. So agitated that he got out of his car to follow knowing full well he was not suppose to do that. So here he is out there LE asking him to meet officers at his car and what is the last thing he said....have them call me when they get here because GZ had no intention of going back to his car. He had already made up his mind to find TM and detain him if possible. How did he plan to do that? Why follow if he can't hold TM in one place? What good would it do if he already expected TM to book towards the back gate and get away? He had to keep TM from getting away until LE got there. That was what was in GZ's mind or why would he continue to follow when he claims he knew exactly where TM was headed????

It really is not a stretch to believe that GZ tried to keep TM in one spot while LE was on their way. No evidence that TM ever attacked GZ first and no reason to believe he had an incentive to do so. TM just wanted to get home per his conversation with the gf. TM had planned to watch the game with BG's son. GZ did not want TM to get away.

Given the fact that the investigator for the State feels that the information given by GZ is incorrect about what happened that night it becomes easier and easier to believe that GZ was just trying to keep TM from getting away. It is even easier to believe that TM fought back believing his life was in danger. jmo

Great post and makes the most sense!

I can't imagine the fear that poor Trayvon felt before his death. It's heartbreaking. I'll never get his crying for help from the 911 call out of my head. I can't imagine how his family feels when they hear it!

 

[Reader]

He could wear a costume and be a sign flipper for new condos at gated communities. Something like that. He can work if he wants to. IMO

That would be a perfect job to fulfill his 'gated community mentality'!

 

[Adrienne37]

I've always heard that dogs have a good sense of judgment when it comes to people so I'd say that probably explains why Zimmerman and his wife had such problems with the dog mentioned in the article...


SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/w...194/US/George.Zimmerman.Prelude.to.a.shooting

 

[Adrienne37]

Awe ain't that special... Zimmerman and his wife both completed the firearms training and bought guns together. That's just the sweetest thing I've ever heard...


That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/w...194/US/George.Zimmerman.Prelude.to.a.shooting


~jmo~