17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[rotterdam]

But that's a far cry from carrying a weapon when you walking in a public area. Maybe he thought Martin was going to steal his jewels?

Agree, he had no business carrying a ready to shoot 9mm on a neighborhood watch mission. Neither should he even been following Trayvon on foot..
Further more, I do not think he expected Trayvon to have a gun either. He would have stayed in his car(like any reasonable thinking human) snug as a bug. That reaching for waist band was just an alibi if somehow the confrontation ended up in a fatal shooting. There was some premeditation involved IMO.
I carried a concealed weapon when I had the shop open and after a local shopkeeper(friend of mine) was murdered and I was generally alone.
I finally closed up the shop and used safer on line sales only for a while till I retired.

 

[LambChop]

Agree, he had no business carrying a ready to shoot 9mm on a neighborhood watch mission. Neither should he even been following Trayvon on foot..
Further more, I do not think he expected Trayvon to have a gun either. He would have stayed in his car(like any reasonable thinking human) snug as a bug. That reaching for waist band was just an alibi if somehow the confrontation ended up in a fatal shooting. There was some premeditation involved IMO.

I think what bothers me the most are the hollow point bullets. That's a clear aim to kill theology. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Self-defense only applies to defending your LIFE against attack. What did Zimmerman see that made him fear for his life. Self-defense does not mean attacking someone because you THINK they MIGHT be a burglar.

We don't know that GZ attacked TM.

Legal definition of self-defense: A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack.Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. (bold is my emphasis)

Clearly Zimmerman's use of deadly force was NOT self-defense.

TM was on top of GZ, according to an eyewitness and IMO, he was yelling for help for almost a minute, trying to get away from TM. IMO, that would be a reasonable attempt to avoid further danger or either of them.

JMO :moo:

 

[Gaia713]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...usands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

n October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious."

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.


That suspension was followed four months later by another one in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”

The punishment was the third for the teen.

bbm

OMG, a career criminal!!!! Very well could be he was holding for a friend. He's a teenager. Were there any arrests? And who determined they were diamonds - a jeweler or a school police investigator? My goodness, I'm just sick and tired of the blaming the victim. I am sure if we were examined to the extent that he is being examined, we wouldn't look so good either. I didn't know there were specific marijuana pipes. Was the pipe checked for marijuana residue? Most people I know who smoke just roll their own.

What is his CRIMINAL record? Was he ever arrested for burglary or assault. Did he plead down to anger management? Has he ever killed anyone?

 

[vlpate]

And they are behind the condos.

Yes, those are patios off the courtyard. These patio doors were the most reported entry point for the past burglaries.

 

[LambChop]

We don't know that GZ attacked TM.


TM was on top of GZ, according to an eyewitness and IMO, he was yelling for help for almost a minute, trying to get away from TM. IMO, that would be a reasonable attempt to avoid further danger or either of them.

JMO :moo:

Maybe GZ did not attack TM. Maybe he just wanted to hold TM for LE to get there and TM fought back, which he was entitled to do. TM was doing nothing wrong. And I thought it was still up in the air who was yelling for help? OS's two experts say the voice did not belong to GZ. If GZ was so concerned about avoiding further danger he should have never attempted to follow TM in the first place. I think LE would have found TM had he been up to no good. Where would he go if GZ headed straight for the back gate???? TM would have made it home and GZ would have to report that "another one got away." jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

He was leaping all over the place like the Duracell bunny imo.
Looks like he's on drugs- leaping to possession and use of illegal narcotics.
just looking about- leaping to casing houses
he's coming to check me out, hand on waistband -thoughts leaping to the individual being a violent threat to George Zimmerman personally, and probably armed

And from the information he was giving dispatch he wanted them to think Trayon Martin was a danger to him, yet he followed him and even hunted him down...IMHO.. I'm not convinced his call to dispatch wasn't just a setup, an excuse to kill someone and use SYG law to get away with murder...JMHO.

ETA Wonder WHY he didn't tell disptach he was the one who had a gun in his waistband and had hollow point bullets to stop Trayvon M dead in his tracks...JMHO

 

[Gaia713]

Well obviously you have your opinion. However, we have yet to see any proof in evidence that your theory is correct, nor mine. It has yet to be proven that GZ attacked TM or whether TM attacked GZ. Simple as that. As far as I know, any evidence put forth thus far has yet to determine WHO initiated the fight. All JMOO

Deadly force is STILL OVERKILL for a fist fight. Does Zimmerman always take a gun to a fist fight? Self-defense implies reasonable. Pulling a gun and shooting someone in the chest when he is unarmed is NOT reasonable. If it were, there'd be a lot of dead people lying around. jmo

 

[Phoenixfla]

GZ didn't know anything about what TM may or may not have done so TM's past is irrelevant. GZ didn't say, hey this guy is walking around, looking in house windows, checking out cars to see if they're unlocked, stealing things from open patios. Those things might have been reason for being suspicious.

I have never heard any reference to a marijuana pipe, just that an empty baggie which might have contained pot was found in his back pack. No need to embellish the story to make it fit your narrative.

That suspension was followed four months later by another one in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/v-fullstory/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

 

[rotterdam]

I think what bothers me the most are the hollow point bullets. That's a clear aim to kill theology. jmo

Well, if you are really in a situation where you or one of your loved ones are in grave mortal danger, hollow points are the answer if you only have time to shoot once. Even better is a shot gun at close range.You hardly have to aim them.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, those are patios off the courtyard. These patio doors were the most reported entry point for the past burglaries.

And it's so easy to make sure no one gets in by installing a charlie bar or just put a heavy wooden dowel/bar in the track to keep someone from opening the door. Cost is minimal. As a NWP person I would think it would have been easier to tell people to place bars in their tracks than it would have been to go out and purchase a 9mm hand gun. jmo

 

[vlpate]

OMG, a career criminal!!!! Very well could be he was holding for a friend. He's a teenager. Were there any arrests? And who determined they were diamonds - a jeweler or a school police investigator? My goodness, I'm just sick and tired of the blaming the victim. I am sure if we were examined to the extent that he is being examined, we wouldn't look so good either. I didn't know there were specific marijuana pipes. Was the pipe checked for marijuana residue? Most people I know who smoke just roll their own.

What is his CRIMINAL record? Was he ever arrested for burglary or assault. Did he plead down to anger management? Has he ever killed anyone?

No one is blaming the victim. Many are tired of the lopsided picture that has been painted of these two from day one. NEITHER was an angel, they both had things in their past, TM'm much more recent. If he were a year older, he's have had a record for the vandalism and police would not have taken "I don't know" for an answer when asked where he got all the jewelry. He didn't do anything horrible, but he wasn't the innocent child that he is constantly being made out to be. His past shows that he could have been up to something - regardless of whether or not GZ was aware of what he'd done previously.

It's funny how GZ's past matters when it comes to this tragedy, but he didn't deserve to be beat up by TM because of it. None of us know, not even the prosecutor, if TM was acting suspicious, and we don't know who threw first punch, so one opinion is as good as the other in this case. JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Well, if you are really in a situation where you or one of your loved ones are in grave mortal danger, hollow points are the answer if you only have time to shoot once. Next best to that is a shot gun at close range.

ot
For a house gun I heard that an AR15 (16 inch barrel) is better than a shotgun. just sayin

 

[BiancaS]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...usands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

n October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious."

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

That suspension was followed four months later by another one in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”

The punishment was the third for the teen.

bbm

The family said they were never told about a jewelry situation and their attorney suggested it was not true (why would he not have been arrested). And if he was found to have a pipe, that is a crime in itself and he would have been arrested. I never saw the pipe referenced before (the jewelry was, but it was said that the police could find no record that it was stolen). If there is a school police report, there would be an arrest for the pipe, IMO. They don't have their own legal system in the schools, suspension does not make a "crime" go away. IMO, etc. etc.

 

[vlpate]

And it's so easy to make sure no one gets in by installing a charlie bar or just put a heavy wooden dowel/bar in the track to keep someone from opening the door. Cost is minimal. As a NWP person I would think it would have been easier to tell people to place bars in their tracks than it would have been to go out and purchase a 9mm hand gun. jmo

Are we blaming the victims, and now even GZ for the burglaries, were the young black men breaking in not to blame at all???

 

[rotterdam]

ot
For a house gun I heard that an AR15 (16 inch barrel) is better than a shotgun. just sayin

Not familiar with that but that sounds like a cannon.:floorlaugh:

 

[Gaia713]

We don't know that GZ attacked TM.


TM was on top of GZ, according to an eyewitness and IMO, he was yelling for help for almost a minute, trying to get away from TM. IMO, that would be a reasonable attempt to avoid further danger or either of them.

JMO :moo:

He couldn't have been TOO pinned down as he was able to access his weapon and kill TM. Also voice tests proved it could NOT have been GZ calling for help. I feel sorry for GZ but he will wake up in the morning and TM will never wake up again.

 

[LambChop]

Well, if you are really in a situation where you or one of your loved ones are in grave mortal danger, hollow points are the answer if you only have time to shoot once. Next best to that is a shot gun at close range.

I think if someone wanted to kill you they would do it and it would not matter what you were packing. I'm not against guns just that some people really should not have them. GZ obviously was one of them. I hope someone investigates how he was able to slip through those loops so many times. jmo

 

[sleonardelli]

I'm going to share a story. I have a near 15-year-old son who's been treated by a psychologist for ADHD (H=impulsivity) every 2 weeks since he was 11. My husband and I have been dealing with his drug abuse (you name it, he claims he's done it) for more than 18 months now. He's in rehab through Juvenile Drug Court (JDC). His first 6 months in JDC he was popping positive every drug test. He was sent to detox for 5 days and stayed clean for 2 months before he was sent back to detox then to residential treatment by order of the court. During his time in residential, he's been sent to detention twice (5 days each). Right before his second detention, he was put on Lexapro and began the Focalin XR again. Since then, he's turned around significantly that he'll likely graduate rehab by the end of the month.

My son has been suspended 3 times since 8th grade. He's a troubled youth for sure but we've tried every punishment (except corporal) to get him onto the right track.

My son taught me some local gang signs today and tells me they don't just represent gangbangers, but "hoods" (neighborhoods). He has a FB account that we monitor. We've had to remove several offensive posts and remind him that his female cousins (tween/teen) and some of his friends parents (who also monitor their FB accounts) are offended by his message. He uses vulgarities (especially when playing XBox) and has been known to flip the bird. That said, my son IS NOT A !

Those of you who wish to portray Trayvon as a , pointing to his tweets/FB posts and his suspensions as "evidence", I'm hear to remind you that those of us with bird flipping, gang sign displaying, vulgarity spewing, hoodie-wearing/pants sagging, less than perfect teens ARE NOT BUYING IT!

BTW, Z and I have been following this case closely on his home passes/drs appointments and, according to him, Trayvon seems like a typical teen dealing with their peer environment. Their peer and online personas are not representative of who they really are. He also says "Pray 4 Tray!"

 

[BiancaS]

No one is blaming the victim. Many are tired of the lopsided picture that has been painted of these two from day one. NEITHER was an angel, they both had things in their past, TM'm much more recent. If he were a year older, he's have had a record for the vandalism and police would not have taken "I don't know" for an answer when asked where he got all the jewelry. He didn't do anything horrible, but he wasn't the innocent child that he is constantly being made out to be. His past shows that he could have been up to something - regardless of whether or not GZ was aware of what he'd done previously.

It's funny how GZ's past matters when it comes to this tragedy, but he didn't deserve to be beat up by TM because of it. None of us know, not even the prosecutor, if TM was acting suspicious, and we don't know who threw first punch, so one opinion is as good as the other in this case. JMO

Regardless of his age, there is a juvenile justice system and it has been confirmed that Trayvon had no record whatsoever. Can't say the same for GZ and on his MySpace he even talks about a crime he got away with while his friends "got a year."