17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[LolaMoon08]

At what broken law do you draw the line? Marijuana may be no big deal to you, but it is against the law. Did George Zimmerman start making those bad decisions throughout his life at such a young age as Martin appears to have?

I guess your sentence stating pretty much everyone you know is an illegal drug user explains your position here. Of course you'd assume the person who performed a lawful act of self defense was in the wrong.

No one is ever going to get arrested for an empty bag of the icky sticky. Marijuana has become such a non factor that 4/20 has become like a National Holiday and the police don't even mess with you that day even if you're smoking within a few feet of them. The only time Marijuana becomes an issue is when they are dealing with the dealers and the grow houses. I know police officers who smoke. I don't smoke, but I think it should be legal!

Alcohol on the other hand is responsible for a lot of violence in this country. We all know George gets violent when he's drinking (according to his arrest and friends). Yet, he was not tested for anything that night? :banghead:

I think George working illegal parties says a lot about his character. Usually there is a lot stronger drugs than marijuana at those parties. Maybe if he had been busted doing these parties, he wouldn't have been able to get a gun?

MOO

 

[Emeralgem]

The PROBLEM is that GZ portrayed himself on MS as a racist and a and a man who "got away with a crime" while letting his "friends" take the heat...
GZ carried a gun and needed "Big Boi"How can you compare TM to a "gang member"
PROVE to me FACTUALLY and not with your "opinions" that TM can be compared to a gang member? Did he have gang tattoos? did he tag gang signs?
<modsnip>

IMHO... What kind of a person brags about getting away with a crime and allows his friends to take the heat for him....Seems to me George Zimmerman is a REAL PIECE OF WORK...JMHO

 

[deelytful1]

Teenagers commonly take on personas as they try to figure out who they are, or do what they think is cool. Some teenagers think being tough and like a gangbanger is cool, and often it is to their teenage friends. However, this doesn't mean that they all turn out to be gangbangers. Some grow out of it and go on to have productive lives. TM was not a gangbanger from the hood. His parents seem to be upstanding, and the only things he got into trouble for were minor and definitely not violent. I am not understanding how this is being stretched to him being moments from being an actual gangbanger and wanting to take out GZ. Now maybe he put on a tough persona to show GZ he wasn't afraid of him (no proof, but it's a possibility), but that doesn't mean he was an actual gangbanger out for blood. I don't think GZ is a very good judge of character at all. If someone says some words to him that sound a certain way, he jumps to conclusions about them. That doesn't give the the right to shoot and kill TM. He did not know TM at all.

Honestly, I want actual proof other than GZ's word alone that TM jumped him and made him fear for his life so he had to shoot TM. There is absolutely not one iota of evidence that makes TM violent nor the aggressor other than GZ. And there's no one to contradict the story because the only person who can, TM, is dead. It's a travesty that the assumption is still being pervasively made that TM was a violent out to kill GZ. And yet nothing about GZ's background can say anything about him, which is a complete and total contradiction. If TM's background can be held against him, then GZ's background can be held against him too. That is only fair.

Only one of them is sounding like a violent gangbanger, and it's NOT TM.

:goodpost:

They should have a "great post" smilie...
HOW on earth did we get here??? I am so scared for the future of this country and our children considering alot of comments I've read all over the internet! Trayvon was a CHILD... If my VERY white 13 year old son decides to like gangsta rap and post stupidity on Twitter will people "allude" to the fact he probably caused an altercation and deserved to die if in fact he was murdered?
I am am NOT gonna go round and round the mulberry bush with this case.. I have my own opinions and I know they are ones that allow me to lay my head down at night and sleep well and look in the mirror and like the person i see.
This will go to a COURT of law and our great justice system will determine the outcome...
I don't believe in the SYG laws but i believe in a higher power and GZ will pay for taking a human life whether it be on this earth or after he dies...
There was NO reason for Trayvon to die ... NONE.
He had a wonderful life ahead of him amongst people who loved him.

 

[Inabsentia]

Why would a teenager be in possession of 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch, and a screwdriver that could be used as a burglary tool?

You tell me???

My teen-aged boyfriend (way back in the dark ages) used to use a screwdriver to start his incredibly junky car. If he didn't have it in his backpack all the time we would never have gotten out of the high school parking lot.

 

[Aedrys]

Just the fact that he was an impulsive teenager, and an ex football player so he knew how to physically 'hit' someone with his body if he needed to, and he was impulsive and rebellious, given his three suspensions.

That is a lot of suspensions, imo.
Many kids stop being a discipline problem at one suspension. But he went into a closed part of the campus and spray painted a curse word on private property. That says something about his impulsive personality, imo. Students doing something destructive like that in broad daylight have little impulse control, imo.

I know this is going to bring me a lot of flaming and anguish, but you asked me the question, and I am answering from my experience working in schools with 'at risk' kids. Three suspensions is a lot. And ten days is a very big deal. They do not like to send kids away from campus any longer than necessary because they miss the ada $ every day a kid is gone. And they don't want a kid to get behind in classes either. So this was quite a long suspension. And that tells me that the school was concerned with his behavior. JMO

So to answer your question, I think he had poor impulse control, knew how to fight, and was angry that day being grounded by his dad for his 10 day suspension. So when this scary weirdo was following him, he was angry.

BBM. Seems to me much the same can be said about GZ. He was a bouncer, so he knows how to fight, and tends to jump to conclusions about entire races based on a small sample and couldn't stop himself from following TM. So he has poor impulse control too. He was angry that day because thugs kept getting away with crime in his neighborhood, and saw a weirdo walking in his neighborhood that looked like those thugs that always got away and that he assumed to be one of those thugs. So he was angry too, had poor impulse control and followed TM anyway, and he was carrying a gun. This was not going to end with a nice exchange of words, IMO.

 

[jjenny]

I'm guessing, though, that you didn't crawl back up on the railing, fall backward and hit your head several times. Which would be a true comparison of GZ's claim that TM was pounding his head into the concrete and the brother's claim that just "one more blow" would render him wearing diapers.

No, I didn't crawl back up on the railing, but I also fell from some distance backwards. Not every hit on the concrete will cause a lot of bleeding.

 

[Emma Peel]

His protrayal of himself, on Facebook, on Twitter, etc, is that of a gang member. That lifestyle is one of violence. It is also one of being considered less than manly if you do not stand up to someone in a physical manner when they appear to be beliitling or disrepecting you. I have worked with gang members, and a situation where someone is being followed, and the person being followed responds with force is not difficult to see.

The problem is that because of the race issue, anyone pointing out this OBVIOUS connection is labeled a racist and their opinions and input is negated. But that does not change the FACT that TM was attempting to portray himself as a tough guy.

Look, if you've worked with gang members, and want to post as a professional with credentials and real-life experience and knowledge, you can contact the owners here and be verified as having that sort of expertise.

Until then, this is as an interesting albeit minority opinion - a POV based on a prejudice for the gunman, and against TM, albeit peppered by an overactive imagination. JMHO

On the point of racist labeling on this forum - this post profiles TM sight-unseen as a gang-member/-on-skittles, on a night in the rain, (frankly) with no more facts about than night to offer a well-researched forum ... that's bound to raise negative feedback on a victim friendly site.

Friendly tip: get used to it and know anti-victim posts will be challenged.

That does not mean minority opinions are not appreciated here. That does not mean a different interpretation of the facts we do have has no value. IMO, some of these opposite POVs (a number of posters bring this POV to the forum) - they are closer to GZ's world-view and provide those who don't hold that world view with an understanding of how GZ might think.

I will make one point, however. GZ's been charged with 2nd degree murder by a prosecution team that has enough evidence to do so. So, while everyone's free to creatively speculate and profile based on kids facebooks, and spin yarns and jump to conclusions about this minor victim, this child's character as a gang-banger ... we might also feel compelled to ask ourselves how the heck the prosecution arrived at the charge they did - in spite of these convictions that TM's is a gang-banger of poor character.

:waitasec:

IMO, pondering that conundrum puts us in good company - and in same position the SPD has been in for a month or so.

:cow:

 

[Phoenixfla]

Teenagers commonly take on personas as they try to figure out who they are, or do what they think is cool. Some teenagers think being tough and like a gangbanger is cool, and often it is to their teenage friends. However, this doesn't mean that they all turn out to be gangbangers. Some grow out of it and go on to have productive lives. TM was not a gangbanger from the hood. His parents seem to be upstanding, and the only things he got into trouble for were minor and definitely not violent. I am not understanding how this is being stretched to him being moments from being an actual gangbanger and wanting to take out GZ. Now maybe he put on a tough persona to show GZ he wasn't afraid of him (no proof, but it's a possibility), but that doesn't mean he was an actual gangbanger out for blood. I don't think GZ is a very good judge of character at all. If someone says some words to him that sound a certain way, he jumps to conclusions about them. That doesn't give him the right to shoot and kill TM. He did not know TM at all.

Honestly, I want actual proof other than GZ's word alone that TM jumped him and made him fear for his life so he had to shoot TM. There is absolutely not one iota of evidence that makes TM violent nor the aggressor other than GZ. And there's no one to contradict the story because the only person who can, TM, is dead. It's a travesty that the assumption is still being pervasively made that TM was a violent out to kill GZ. And yet nothing about GZ's background can say anything about him, which is a complete and total contradiction. If TM's background can be held against him, then GZ's background can be held against him too. That is only fair.

Only one of them is sounding like a violent gangbanger, and it's NOT TM.

What it sounds like your asking is for GZ to prove his innocence.

 

[Karmady]

Of all the things I've read here, among the most incredible, imo, are the posts providing "innocent" explanations why a kid would have a dozen pieces of ladies' jewelry, including diamonds, and a screwdriver in his backpack. And, when asked, offers the classic "you can't prove it" excuse that it wasn't his. I don't really care about the jewelry as far as it is related to THIS case, but, really???

 

[Inabsentia]

No, I didn't crawl back up on the railing, but I also fell from some distance backwards. Not every hit on the concrete will cause a lot of bleeding.

George fell from nearly six feet in the air according to his story, and although I believe that not every hit on concrete will cause a lot of bleeding, I believe that most do. George Claims repeated hits on concrete, without even the protection of having hair. Is it possible? I suppose it might, just possibly, conceivably, be possible, but I don't find it likely.

When I was twelve I fell from a three foot or so ledge and landed face first on a concrete driveway. I shattered both front teeth, and split my lip and my forehead wide open. Both the blood and swelling were crazy.

 

[Phoenixfla]

My teen-aged boyfriend (way back in the dark ages) used to use a screwdriver to start his incredibly junky car. If he didn't have it in his backpack all the time we would never have gotten out of the high school parking lot.

Just curious - why didn't he just leave it in the car?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

<pokes head out>

Question for mods?

If we were not allowed to discuss GZ's myspace account until it was verified that it was in fact his, how come posters are apparently allowed to discuss TM's Twitter/Facebook accounts/youtube videos when AFAIK those haven't been verified as in fact his?

Maybe I missed the verification?

:truce:

 

[Emma Peel]

<pokes head out>

Question for mods?

If we were not allowed to discuss GZ's myspace account until it was verified that it was in fact his, how come posters are apparently allowed to discuss TM's Twitter/Facebook accounts/youtube videos when AFAIK those haven't been verified as in fact his?

Maybe I missed the verification?

:truce:

I missed it too, now that you mention it.

 

[Karmady]

Just curious - why didn't he just leave it in the car?

Honestly, I think if one of my kids had a screwdriver in their backpack these days, even without the jewelry, it would be considered a weapon and they'd wind up suspended. And I'm not exaggerating. Zero tolerance and all.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Honestly, I think if one of my kids had a screwdriver in their backpack these days, even without the jewelry, it would be considered a weapon and they'd wind up suspended. And I'm not exaggerating. Zero tolerance and all.

Does anyone know if there were other tools in his backpack? If he also had some wrenches or a small tool set it certainly be less suspicious.

 

[Inabsentia]

Of all the things I've read here, among the most incredible, imo, are the posts providing "innocent" explanations why a kid would have a dozen pieces of ladies' jewelry, including diamonds, and a screwdriver in his backpack. And, when asked, offers the classic "you can't prove it" excuse that it wasn't his. I don't really care about the jewelry as far as it is related to THIS case, but, really???

In my case, another poster asked for "innocent" reasons why a kid might keep a screwdriver in his backpack. I knew of one so I gave it.

I, myself, am inclined to believe Trayvon's given reason. I have no reason or need to do otherwise. Did this friend aquire this jewelry nefariously? I have no idea. Nor do I really care. Law enforcement didn't even see fit to arrest TM and closed the case without even involving this minor's parents. Seems like a non-issue to me. For all we know it was closed so fast because the friend stepped forward. What I do know is that the contents of Trayvon's backpack had nothing to do with what happened on the night that GZ shot and killed him. Moo

 

[katydid23]

BBM. Seems to me much the same can be said about GZ. He was a bouncer, so he knows how to fight, and tends to jump to conclusions about entire races based on a small sample and couldn't stop himself from following TM. So he has poor impulse control too. He was angry that day because thugs kept getting away with crime in his neighborhood, and saw a weirdo walking in his neighborhood that looked like those thugs that always got away and that he assumed to be one of those thugs. So he was angry too, had poor impulse control and followed TM anyway, and he was carrying a gun. This was not going to end with a nice exchange of words, IMO.

I agree. As I have ALWAYS said, GZ deserves to be charged with a crime and should do some time. I totally agree that he was in the wrong.

But I also reserve some judgment about what happened in the final minutes. Because as assinine as it was that GZ decided to follow this poor kid, it might have also been true that this kid left him no choice as they struggled over control of the gun.

 

[Aedrys]

What it sounds like your asking is for GZ to prove his innocence.

No, what I am asking is for fairness on both sides. GZ is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law only. He does not have to prove his innocence there unless he goes with the SYG defense. At any rate, this is a discussion board, not a court of law. If everything under the sun can be held against TM, then why can't the same be said of GZ? And no, I don't expect him to come here and defend himself either. I just think real justice is looking fairly at both sides of the issue. I see too many people here assuming TM was a lost cause that was doomed to die by gunshot anyway or that he deserved to die without any solid proof that is true, but anything that comes up about GZ just needs to be immediately ignored because he's so lily white and pure that he couldn't have possibly have shot TM unless he was being attacked. That just doesn't seem right to me. There is proof of violence in GZ's past, and none in TM's past, but TM is the and GM is practically Mr. Rogers in his neighborhood. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

From what the evidence we do have is telling me, GZ was the aggressor who assumed TM was a criminal and made sure TM was not another that was going to get away. I see nothing that says TM was the aggressor and GZ had no choice but to shoot and kill him. And no, one photo of a barely bloody and injured head is not proof enough for me.

 

[Inabsentia]

Just curious - why didn't he just leave it in the car?

He had one in the car too. He was always losing those things. After awhile I kept one in MY backpack. That was the most humiliating car ever. I'm still scarred by the six months when he could only park it on hills because the starter died!

 

[Karmady]

In my case, another poster asked for "innocent" reasons why a kid might keep a screwdriver in his backpak. I knew of one so I gave it.

I, myself, am inclined to believe Trayvon's given reason. I have no reason or need to do otherwise. Did this friend aquire this jewelry nefariously? I have no idea. Nor do I really care. Law enforcement didn't even see fit to arrest TM and closed the case without even involving this minor's parents. Seems like a non-issue to me. For all we know it was closed so fast because the friend stepped forward. What I do know is that the contents of Trayvon's backpack had nothing to do with what happened on the night that GZ shot and killed him. Moo

Thanks, inabsentia. I didn't have your post in mind. But I can see how it would seem like that given the proximity of your post. It just reminded me of others. So sorry about that. And back in the day, that might have been a reasonable innocent explanation (if you forget about the ladies' jewelry lol). But, like I said, these days you wouldn't be allowed to carry a screwdriver for any reason. I just confirmed with dd