17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[Phoenixfla]

Why in the world would he make up a lie that he knows could be so easily proven by providing hospital records?

That question has me stumped also.

 

[vlpate]

Source: Zimmerman says Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him
(More from the "source")
"George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.

The source said Zimmerman's account of events hasn't changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen's behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation. However, he never mentioned any of that while talking to the dispatcher."
<snip>
"Reached in Birmingham, Ala., Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said Thursday that Zimmerman's claim that he was screaming in the 911 call and that his mouth was covered by the teen don't add up.

"[Trayvon's father] Tracy Martin told me that that's what [police] told him," Crump said, of Zimmerman making those statements to police."

They don't name their source, but Crump is the only one talking, and there's no way he has any of the evidence.

 

[Boytwnmom]

saying he intended to shoot him. He intended to apprehend and detain him but he was not opposed to shooting him if necessary and necessary to him was if everything didn't go his way. He's not completely stupid-he knows he can't just shoot someone for no reason, even a criminal like he thought Trayvon was but since he WAS a criminal to GZ he figured if he "resisted" arrest and he had to shoot him, no big deal. It wasn't until TM turned out not to be the criminal GZ thought he was tat it became any sort of issue and that's when we went to the dramatic, over the top story of how GZ was being physically overwhelmed and almost killed by this skinny kid and he shows up 20 minutes later looking like he was ready for the day, clean and pressed and ready to go-not exactly the picture of someone seconds from death or diapers.

Depending on how he went about it, I disagree. And we don't know how he went about it. One thing we do know, though, is that there was a physical altercation that went on much longer than it would have if we were dealing with a person who just wanted to shoot someone. jmo

 

[LynnM]

Depending on how he went about it, I disagree. And we don't know how he went about it. One thing we do know, though, is that there was a physical altercation that went on much longer than it would have if we were dealing with a person who just wanted to shoot someone. jmo

This is exactly why I want to see the phone records to the second. The phone bill shows that Trayvon was talking with his friend from 7:12 to 7:16. We know that T-Mobile doesn't bill in fractions so the actual records instead of the bill will be very informative. Based on the 911 calls, the shot occurred at 7:16:41, that's not a lot of time if the call was over at 7:15 and some seconds and very little time if it was actually 7:16.

The friend says that she heard Trayvon say, "Why are you following me" and an unknown male reply "Why are you here?" I know some are questioning whether she heard anything alarming at all before the call was disconnected (or alternatively before they voluntarily hung up) but either way, there is such a short time for the loud voices that 911 callers heard and for the scuffle. If GZ has an elaborate story as one might believe given his brother and father's account (Trayvon calling him homey, asking if he had a problem, GZ replying no, Trayvon telling him he does now and then telling him he was going to die tonight, knocking him down with one punch, banging his head repeatedly, and both of them struggling for the gun), I just can't see how all of that can fit into a small window of time.

 

[Karmady]

What if... I know, I know... but what if all that you speculate is true except that Zimmerman had caught up to Trayvon after following him and grabbed hold of him in order to detain him (because all those a$$holes get away) and scared the living crap out of him and Trayvon was struggling to get away from this stranger he didn't know from Adam. The more he struggled to get away, the tighter Zimmerman held on and it was on. Wrestling and the physical altercation escalated and... well, we pretty much agree what happened from there. In that case it would be Trayvon defending himself.

Personal note: I was mugged (strong arm robbed). I had my purse on my shoulder pretty close to my body and the guy was walking toward me. As he got close, there was an unmistakable look in his eye and in a split second I knew what he was going to do. He hooked his arm through the strap on my purse. By instinct I pulled my arms in toward my body in protection mode which automatically made me clutch my purse closer. He slung me around like a yo yo. I was holding on to that purse for dear life. Not because of the belongings but because my adrenalin was flowing to the max. The cops asked me later why I held on to that purse and didn't just give it up. It wasn't a conscious thought, I just did. Adrenalin.

The point of my personal story is I think once Zimmerman grabbed onto Trayvon and he tried to get away, George was holding on for dear life because 1) his adrenalin was maxing out and 2) he wasn't going to let this a$$hole get away.

Suzi, as much as we obviously disagree on most things, I will give you props for this post. If that happened, and George took physical control of Trayvon (and that could certainly be the case), than I might change my mind. If we can confirm that George was not on the bottom of the altercation and/or that Trayvon believed that he was in fear for his life when the physical altercation started, I'm open to that.

My main protest here has been the initial media spin that convicted George before he had even been charged, and what I perceive to be an inexplicable desire to see George convicted of murder just because the dead person is a black teenager. If he attacked and killed Trayvon, then he's all guilty to me.

 

[tehcloser]

WE NEED A DOCUMENT DUMP!! Come on sunshine laws! Work your magic!

Yes we do.........and until then, might I suggest everyone do what I did tonight - get drinked and say bugger it! :woohoo:

 

[AngelWings444]

Here's what you missed:

A: The sky is blue.
B: Not when it's storming. Then it's gray.
C: Sometimes the sun shines when it's storming.
D: Yeah but sometimes the sky's white when it snows.
E: Sometimes it's red. Or black.
F: There's always blue, even if you can't see it.
F: I had this sky once, and it was purple.
G: We aren't supposed to talk about purple.
H: We can talk purple as long as we don't talk violet.
I: LINK, PLEASE?!

illowfight2:
There you go...all caught up. We really need a document dump!

I just got here too! Thanks for the update. :floorlaugh:

 

[Phoenixfla]

because they're like, a little BETTER at deciding who is a real threat as opposed to a delusional threat cooked up in some gun totting vigilantes mind. Trayvon exhibited none, zero, actual suspicious behavior. But George calls 911 anyway-fine, then let them do their job. But no, he was sick of those a$%holes getting away. So, he decided to apprehend and detain Trayvon.

The intent to detain someone is not lawful but that's what he intended to do. No other reason to follow and CONFRONT him as shown by the gf's phone call when he pops up again after Trayvon thinks he is safe from the nutcase scoping him out. If someone IS a danger the last thing the police want you to do is go anywhere near them. Most people, when they call the police, actually do what the police tell them-don't follow the guy means wait in your car the REAL police are coming. He choose not to do that and he is thus responsible for everything that ensued, even if one thinks his following was legal (which I don't as it was clearly done with the intent to apprehend and detain) it was also stupid and jeopardized everyone within the reach of his gun, depraved indifference to anyone but himself.

We don't know anything bolded for a fact. Sure seems like you may be stringing a lot of speculation together.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I'm assuming Crump wants this to go to trial. The records would come out at trial, Hippa or no Hippa. So you think he would make up this whole huge lie that would most assuredly be exposed at trial - that would kill the case he wants to be a success for his client??

That was so convoluted, it was difficult to type it out.

Unless she is unable to testify. I don't think she will ever take the stand.

 

[AngelWings444]

Well, then I guess he had no worries about making something up if he needed to embellish his story a bit. And since there are visible records which seem to conflict with his hospital story, people should not treat it here as if it is FACT. imo

Why do you think he made up the story about the GF going to the hospital/doctor? What are the visible records which conflict with her seeking medical attention?

She is an innocent victim in this case. I don't think it's right to believe she is a liar because this information came from Crump. Is that your only basis for not believing her seeking medical attention? I do not see how anything about her being upset and seeking medical attention after the wake could have any bearing on this case. :waitasec:

 

[Boytwnmom]

defines what GZ did to Trayvon, profiling, assuming, arming yourself, following, confronting, shooting and killing a person because of their appearance and the color of their skin. Pretty much textbook. Now, getting arrested for shooting and killing an unarmed teenager...not really seeing that next to "persecuted" in the dictionary. Honestly, I think even calling 911 on Trayvon was persecution. No one calls 911 on me when I walk around a gated community or anywhere else. Being a white woman, I'm allowed the presumption that I belong. Why should anyone not doing anything illegal have the police called on them and be forced to defend their existence and prove to someone they're NOT a criminal? I can't imagine ever presuming I have the right to sic the police on someone by telling them this perfectly normal person is "up to no good" and "on drugs or something". What is going on in someone's head that they feel this is normal and acceptable? There was not a single thing objectively suspicious that Trayvon was alleged to have done, nothing but walk while being a black male teen.

IMO, there is nothing remotely innocent about GZ or his actions. The only persecuted individual is the one profiled for how he LOOKED and then killed.

 

[vlpate]

and I have asked you repeatedly for the quotes where his father said it wasn't Trayvon-you keep repeating it without any evidence to back it up. As I've said before in regard to this unsubstantiated statement:

I've posted this before, but I don't have it in quotes, I have it in video form from a respected *ahem* source , Matt Guttman, who has it from a reliable source, IMO, SPD. It's up to the listener to decide whether or not they made it all up for whatever reason. I know ABC is not biased. JMO *** hold on for the video, the one I posted has bad pics of TM ***
He was supposedly a "bouncer" when he was 21, 7 years ago. TM was a football player 2 years ago. Bouncers bounce, football players run, IMO.

You have your opinion but I have my own and there are plenty of facts and evidence to support GZ being the aggressor. The eyewitnesses didn't all say the same thing and I think we all know the credibility problem with them and being led by the Sanford PD.

I had heard the little boy with the dog was coaxed by LE, but he says the guy on the ground by himself, had on a red shirt, and he said it without LE around. I have the video for that as well and I'd be happy to provide it.

Are you joking? He couldn't ASK Trayvon a question because it wasn't in his history to confront someone but he had no problem disregarding the dispatcher and going after Trayvon with a gun, that is less confrontational than rolling down the window and speaking to another human being instead of just shooting them...

I choose to believe he stopped following him because that is what the evidence shows me, we see it differently.

Oh, the experts, not true-ONE said it WAS Trayvon and one said it WASN'T GZ. As I posted before about this:

One said it was Trayvon? Do you have a link for that? I looked before I wrote this post, but couldn't locate it. I'd be interested to know how he came to that conclusion without anything relative to compare it to. TIA

As far as the investigators testimony it was not responsive to the issue of whose voice it was or wasn't, it was about whether the investigator got any "insight" into it-the investigator would NOT be the one identifying the voice or conducting the test. He never said testing didn't indicate whose voice it was so I find the two testers who actually addressed that issue a little more relevant.

If the FBI's results had said it was Trayvon, he would certainly gain insight into who was screaming. If they said their findings were inconclusive, it would give him no insight. JMO

ETA: You will have to go to Youtube to see the video, ABC no longer has it on their site, and the only one I can find has vulgar pictures of Trayvon. I'm looking for alternatives but my Internet is extremely slow.

 

[Karmady]

Why do you think he made up the story about the GF going to the hospital/doctor? What are the visible records which conflict with her seeking medical attention?

She is an innocent victim in this case. I don't think it's right to believe she is a liar because this information came from Crump. Is that your only basis for not believing her seeking medical attention? I do not see how anything about her being upset and seeking medical attention after the wake could have any bearing on this case. :waitasec:

I don't think anyone believes or is saying that SHE is a liar. jmo

 

[tehcloser]

I hope the GF gets her own lawyer.

 

[Karmady]

I hope the GF gets her own lawyer.

iirc, she has had one since the abc interview.

 

[katydid23]

Why do you think he made up the story about the GF going to the hospital/doctor? What are the visible records which conflict with her seeking medical attention?

She is an innocent victim in this case. I don't think it's right to believe she is a liar because this information came from Crump. Is that your only basis for not believing her seeking medical attention? I do not see how anything about her being upset and seeking medical attention after the wake could have any bearing on this case. :waitasec:

I NEVER said she was a liar, never.

It is Crumps story that I am questioning. I cannot link the visible records here yet, but they do exist and they are very convincing, imo.

 

[tehcloser]

iirc, she has had one since the abc interview.

Oh, Thank You. I hope it's a good one.

 

[AngelWings444]

Yes we do.........and until then, might I suggest everyone do what I did tonight - get drinked and say bugger it! :woohoo:

Why don't you take a little nap too? lease:

 

[tehcloser]

Why don't you take a little nap too? lease:

I did! My nap juju is on the fritz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

 

[AngelWings444]

I NEVER said she was a liar, never.

It is Crumps story that I am questioning. I cannot link the visible records here yet, but they do exist and they are very convincing, imo.

So the records you are talking about are from her being on social media sites when she is seeking medical treatment?

Well, I was on Facebook and Websleuths, from the emergency room the other night. Those doctors take forever. :floorlaugh: