2007 Church Yearbook Ranks Largest Denominations

[southcitymom]

I heard a really good analogy for explaning mortal vs. venial sins.

Picture this. We are connected to God by an intravenous tube. We are fed through that tube. If we commit a mortal sin (example, murder someone) then we cut ourselves completely off from God - the intravenous tube has been completely clamped, no flow through the tube. If we commit a venial sin (example, lie to someone) the flow through the tube gets inhibited a bit, but the flow is not stopped. God does not cut us off, we cut ourselves off from God.

Just to add to what soutcitymom said about confession, one does not receive forgiveness from the priest, but the priest acting for God, so to speak. In additon to forgiveness, we receive God's grace. After we have been forgiven for the sin, God's grace helps us to avoid the pitfall of that particular sin. As an example, let's say I have a big fight with my husband, and we live in icy silence for a week. I am dwelling on my anger, and am miserable, and need help to get past it. I can go to a priest, confess my part in the fight, and declare my desire to avoid such fights. Depending on the priest, I may be given a prayer to recite (3 Hail Marys), a biblical passage to read, or be told to do some other act (do 3 loving and considerate things for my husband) The grace that comes from the confession helps me to avoid the fight next time. As I am about to lose my temper, my self-control might kick in, and I might be able to say, ah, it's not worth it to get into a fight about this. God's grace gives me the ability to do this.

I have come to rely on confession a great deal. For me, it helps me to be a better person. It heps me to have the humility to say "I'm wrong". It helps me to see my part in a conflict, and helps me see what I need to work on (my anger, my pride) Confession has seen me through some rough times. It is something that has to be experienced to fully understand. It is not humiliating, it is liberating. When I come out, I feel like a shiny new dime, with a fresh start and resolve to do better.

It helps to have a good priest you trust and feel comfortable talking with openly. I am fortunate to have 3 priests I see regularly for confession and spiritual direction.

I hope I have helped to cast a positive light on confession.

Thanks for your experience with confession. I am a fan myself. Confession is also practiced in the Episcopal Church and it is an integral part of any 12-step program (Step 5: We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs).

Confession allows you to air your burden in a safe environment, receive direction as to how you might find further relief and insight and connect more deeply with God and God's direction for your life.

In a Church setting, you might receive these benefits from a priest acting on God's behalf and in a 12-step environment, you might receive these benefits from a sponsor or other trusted mentor. Some people receive similar benefits from wise friends and confidantes and some people receive them from therapists. I agree that - however it plays out for the individual - confession is a key component to spiritual peace and undersanding.

 

[IrishMist]

I heard a really good analogy for explaning mortal vs. venial sins.

Picture this. We are connected to God by an intravenous tube. We are fed through that tube. If we commit a mortal sin (example, murder someone) then we cut ourselves completely off from God - the intravenous tube has been completely clamped, no flow through the tube. If we commit a venial sin (example, lie to someone) the flow through the tube gets inhibited a bit, but the flow is not stopped. God does not cut us off, we cut ourselves off from God.

Just to add to what soutcitymom said about confession, one does not receive forgiveness from the priest, but the priest acting for God, so to speak. In additon to forgiveness, we receive God's grace. After we have been forgiven for the sin, God's grace helps us to avoid the pitfall of that particular sin. As an example, let's say I have a big fight with my husband, and we live in icy silence for a week. I am dwelling on my anger, and am miserable, and need help to get past it. I can go to a priest, confess my part in the fight, and declare my desire to avoid such fights. Depending on the priest, I may be given a prayer to recite (3 Hail Marys), a biblical passage to read, or be told to do some other act (do 3 loving and considerate things for my husband) The grace that comes from the confession helps me to avoid the fight next time. As I am about to lose my temper, my self-control might kick in, and I might be able to say, ah, it's not worth it to get into a fight about this. God's grace gives me the ability to do this.

I have come to rely on confession a great deal. For me, it helps me to be a better person. It heps me to have the humility to say "I'm wrong". It helps me to see my part in a conflict, and helps me see what I need to work on (my anger, my pride) Confession has seen me through some rough times. It is something that has to be experienced to fully understand. It is not humiliating, it is liberating. When I come out, I feel like a shiny new dime, with a fresh start and resolve to do better.

It helps to have a good priest you trust and feel comfortable talking with openly. I am fortunate to have 3 priests I see regularly for confession and spiritual direction.

I hope I have helped to cast a positive light on confession.

I've never heard it put this way before, Sandra, and I can see how it helps you.

I have a question, though... what if what you've done is a sin in the eyes of the church, but not in your eyes? Do you still need to confess that sin? If you don't, will you still go to Heaven?

 

[IrishMist]

Thanks for your experience with confession. I am a fan myself. Confession is also practiced in the Episcopal Church and it is an integral part of any 12-step program (Step 5: We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs).

Confession allows you to air your burden in a safe environment, receive direction as to how you might find further relief and insight and connect more deeply with God and God's direction for your life.

In a Church setting, you might receive these benefits from a priest acting on God's behalf and in a 12-step environment, you might receive these benefits from a sponsor or other trusted mentor. Some people receive similar benefits from wise friends and confidantes and some people receive them from therapists. I agree that - however it plays out for the individual - confession is a key component to spiritual peace and undersanding.

Excellent, SCM! Well said.

 

[southcitymom]

I've never heard it put this way before, Sandra, and I can see how it helps you.

I have a question, though... what if what you've done is a sin in the eyes of the church, but not in your eyes? Do you still need to confess that sin? If you don't, will you still go to Heaven?

I believe you must know and believe you have committed a mortal sin (and not repented) when you die to be sent to hell. I think knowing and believing is a key concept.

 

[southcitymom]

Excellent, SCM! Well said. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif

Hi, IrishMist! I hope you are well!:blowkiss:

 

[IrishMist]

Hi, IrishMist! I hope you are well!:blowkiss:

I can't complain, SCM. Life has just been really busy as of late... I've been doing alot of posting and running. Hope all is well with you and yours.

 

[southcitymom]

I can't complain, SCM. Life has just been really busy as of late... I've been doing alot of posting and running. Hope all is well with you and yours.

We're hanging steady too...though I'm sure I could find some things to confess if I tried!:blushing:

 

[IrishMist]

We're hanging steady too...though I'm sure I could find some things to confess if I tried!:blushing:

Which one of us couldn't?

 

[sandraladeda]

I've never heard it put this way before, Sandra, and I can see how it helps you.

I have a question, though... what if what you've done is a sin in the eyes of the church, but not in your eyes? Do you still need to confess that sin? If you don't, will you still go to Heaven?

I guess in that situation, it would have to be a mortal sin, these are the ones that cut us off from heaven. OK, say I had an abortion, and I'm not sorry. If my Catholic faith meant anything to me, I would talk it out with a priest to try to come to some sort of sense of whether I should be feeling sorry about it or not. Wow, this is tough. I can't think of a mortal sin that I could say "I'm not sorry and I'd do it again!"

I guess I am not much help wih your question. My best answer is that I would talk it over with a trusted priest or spiritual advisor, with an open mind to the possibility that my mind might be changed about my stand on that particular matter.

 

[southcitymom]

I guess in that situation, it would have to be a mortal sin, these are the ones that cut us off from heaven. OK, say I had an abortion, and I'm not sorry. If my Catholic faith meant anything to me, I would talk it out with a priest to try to come to some sort of sense of whether I should be feeling sorry about it or not. Wow, this is tough. I can't think of a mortal sin that I could say "I'm not sorry and I'd do it again!"

I guess I am not much help wih your question. My best answer is that I would talk it over with a trusted priest or spiritual advisor, with an open mind to the possibility that my mind might be changed about my stand on that particular matter.

It is tough, isn't it? I can think of some choices I've made that the Catholic Church would consider mortal sins, but I don't feel bad about them and would make the same choices in the same circumstances again.

These matters are, as you pointed out, best worked through with your spiritual advisor and an open mind.

 

[Maral]

I have a question, though... what if what you've done is a sin in the eyes of the church, but not in your eyes? Do you still need to confess that sin? If you don't, will you still go to Heaven?

IM, if you truely believed that you had not committed a sin, you wouldn't have a sin to confess.

 

[IrishMist]

IM, if you truely believed that you had not committed a sin, you wouldn't have a sin to confess.

I remember you telling me that before, Maral. And I need to tread carefully, because I don't want to hi-jack DK's thread. (That, and I think he'll smack me if I turn this into a homosexuality thread )

What I was asking is what if the church thinks it's a sin, but you don't?

At the risk of DK smacking me, what I'm asking is this: if a person is homosexual, but does not believe that's a sin (but the church does), do they have to confess to that in order to get to Heaven?

I wouldn't think so, but am wondering about some of the opinions here.

ETA: Actually, Sandra's example is a good one, too. What if I had an abortion, but didn't believe it was a sin (but the church does). Would I still need to confess that in order to get into Heaven?

 

[IrishMist]

I just thought of something... if I was Catholic, I would believe these things to be sins, therefore would need to confess them. Is that closer to the truth?

 

[Maral]

I remember you telling me that before, Maral. And I need to tread carefully, because I don't want to hi-jack DK's thread. (That, and I think he'll smack me if I turn this into a homosexuality thread )

What I was asking is what if the church thinks it's a sin, but you don't?

At the risk of DK smacking me, what I'm asking is this: if a person is homosexual, but does not believe that's a sin (but the church does), do they have to confess to that in order to get to Heaven?

I wouldn't think so, but am wondering about some of the opinions here.

ETA: Actually, Sandra's example is a good one, too. What if I had an abortion, but didn't believe it was a sin (but the church does). Would I still need to confess that in order to get into Heaven?

First of all, no one has to confess to being a homosexual. The Church has never considered a person sinful by virtue of being homosexual. But I do understand what you are asking. And my answer remains the same as before. A person who engages in homosexual relations and truely believes he/she is not committing a sin by doing so does not need to confess that sin in order to get to Heaven.

 

[Maral]

I just thought of something... if I was Catholic, I would believe these things to be sins, therefore would need to confess them. Is that closer to the truth?

Not necessarily. There are Catholics who do not believe it is a sin to engage in sexual relations with someone who they are not married to. And many Catholics use birth control and don't believe it is a sin, so they feel no need to confess it.

 

[IrishMist]

Thanks, Maral. You've done much to help me understand. Not just in this thread, but in others. Tis much appreciated.

 

[Maral]

Thanks, Maral. You've done much to help me understand. Not just in this thread, but in others. Tis much appreciated.

You're quite welcome, IM. :blowkiss:

 

[southcitymom]

Thanks, Maral. You've done much to help me understand. Not just in this thread, but in others. Tis much appreciated. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/blowkises.gif

I want to piggyback on IM's thanks to you Maral and to other Catholics here at Websleuths who are kind enough to share their experience, strength and hope in open, loving and non-combative ways. It is really nice to be a part of these discussions.

 

[Nova]

Um, Peter, actually the trend is in the obvious direction. The supposed health benefits of circumcision are highly debatable (and I'm not at all sure how it helps with AIDS), and even those supposed benefits can also be accomplished with regular, basic hygiene. As I understand the recent studies, anyway.QUOTE]


Incorrect. Nova. There are studies out now that show that if men were circumcised in Africa, it would reduce AIDS cases by over half.

It's more than hygiene. Just as a woman who douches after intercourse cannot prevent pregnancy, AIDS is significantly eaiser to transmit to an uncircumcised man.

I stand corrected after LP's link to studies, though I'm still a bit skeptical.

I don't understand your analogy to douching and pregnancy; in fact, it would seem to argue against circumcision as a means to prevent AIDS.

Obviously, douching doesn't help once the ovum is fertilized.

 

[Nova]

I want to piggyback on IM's thanks to you Maral and to other Catholics here at Websleuths who are kind enough to share their experience, strength and hope in open, loving and non-combative ways. It is really nice to be a part of these discussions.

It is indeed.

I grew up with the usual Evangelical Protestant derision for formal confession. But as an adult - and without, I must confess, ever having experienced formal confession - it seems to me such rituals are a good way of dramatizing the process to the penitent.

Not that I think God won't forgive you if you haven't confessed to a priest, of course, but sometimes the Protestant emphasis on a "personal relationship" with God (something to which no Catholic would object) leaves things rather vague.