2007 Church Yearbook Ranks Largest Denominations

[IrishMist]

Funny, isn't it? I've always been something of a (very) minor history buff, but I find myself fascinated with all sorts of history nowadays. In the past year I've read scholarly works on the history of the British Navy and Native Americans in the years before Columbus, as well as everything Jared Diamond has published.

Who knows why?

I'll have to look up his work, Nova, thanks for the tip.

 

[Nova]

I'll have to look up his work, Nova, thanks for the tip.

You've read discussions about Diamond on other threads. Cypros also recommends him. His most famous work is Guns, Germs and Steel. A more recent work is Collapse.

Technically, Diamond is a biologist of some sort, not a historian. But he looks at ancient history through the perspective of physical records.

 

[IrishMist]

You've read discussions about Diamond on other threads. Cypros also recommends him. His most famous work is Guns, Germs and Steel. A more recent work is Collapse.

Technically, Diamond is a biologist of some sort, not a historian. But he looks at ancient history through the perspective of physical records.

Is he very difficult to read? (Not that I mind if he is, I just have to be in the mood for it.)

 

[LovelyPigeon]

While waiting for an answer about the repercussions for Catholics who don't follow rules regarding sacraments, annulments, etc, I also wonder about the perceived value of Latin mass.

Is it encouraged because it sounds nice? because it's more valid somehow? because it's traditional? What exactly makes it preferable?

Original church writings and the scriptures weren't written in Latin, but in Hebrew, Aramaic, and/or Greek. Wouldn't Greek be more traditional for liturgies than Latin?

 

[IrishMist]

While waiting for an answer about the repercussions for Catholics who don't follow rules regarding sacraments, annulments, etc, I also wonder about the perceived value of Latin mass.

Is it encouraged because it sounds nice? because it's more valid somehow? because it's traditional? What exactly makes it preferable?

Original church writings and the scriptures weren't written in Latin, but in Hebrew, Aramaic, and/or Greek. Wouldn't Greek be more traditional for liturgies than Latin?

Oops. Sorry for the hi-jack, LP. (Twas Nova's fault, as usual )

But, back on topic with some very interesting questions from you. I, too, will be looking for the answers to them.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I think Hijack is Nova's middle name

 

[Nova]

Is he very difficult to read? (Not that I mind if he is, I just have to be in the mood for it.)

No. I believe Diamond would say his gift is making anthropology, biology, history, etc., accessible to lay readers.

 

[Nova]

While waiting for an answer about the repercussions for Catholics who don't follow rules regarding sacraments, annulments, etc, I also wonder about the perceived value of Latin mass.

Is it encouraged because it sounds nice? because it's more valid somehow? because it's traditional? What exactly makes it preferable?

Original church writings and the scriptures weren't written in Latin, but in Hebrew, Aramaic, and/or Greek. Wouldn't Greek be more traditional for liturgies than Latin?

I imagine the Greek Orthodox would say, "Yes!"

Yours,
Mr. N. Hijack

 

[Maral]

What does the Church teach members about the resulting penalty if they don't strictly follow the teachings?

Say a Catholic is taking birth control pills, living with an unmarried partner, taking sacraments while knowing being in a state of sin, etc...what does the Church say happens to those people concerning their relationship with God and eternity?

The Church teaches that if one confesses and repents their sins, they will be forgiven.

If someone dies in the state of mortal sin (they must know and believe they have committed a mortal sin), they will spend eternity in hell. Someone who dies in the state of venial sin will go to purgatory.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Yours,
Mr. N. Hijack

He he!

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The Church teaches that if one confesses and repents their sins, they will be forgiven.

If someone dies in the state of mortal sin (they must know and believe they have committed a mortal sin), they will spend eternity in hell. Someone who dies in the state of venial sin will go to purgatory.

How does one go about confesses and repenting of their sins in order to obtain forgiveness?

What are the mortal sins? What are venial sins?

How does one get out of purgatory and into heaven?

 

[southcitymom]

Go back to some of the old discussion on this. I gave one explanation that others seemed to actually understand, lol. (Praise God for that!) But it has been discussed in great detail before on here, just seek and ye shall find. :crazy:

Yes, I do remember that discussion. I admit and fully understand that it is my personal prejudice with the concept of annulment!:blowkiss:

 

[southcitymom]

How does one go about confesses and repenting of their sins in order to obtain forgiveness?

What are the mortal sins? What are venial sins?

How does one get out of purgatory and into heaven?

You confess to and receive forgiveness from a priest - usually with the dictate to "go and sin no more."

This link tells a bit about mortal and venial sins as defined by the Catecisum: http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu06.htm (includes a list of possible mortal sins, but intent matters)

In Purgatory, you do penance (there are different levels of Hell, Purgatory and Heaven - at least according to Dante) and when your penance is done you can go to Heaven. I have no idea where the Catholic Church came up with the concept of Purgatory. I've never seen it mentioned in the Bible.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

You confess to and receive forgiveness from a priest - usually with the dictate to "go and sin no more."

If you confess to a priest that you are using contraceptives, living unmarried in a sexual relationship, etc, can you then receive the sacraments immediately after?

 

[southcitymom]

If you confess to a priest that you are using contraceptives, living unmarried in a sexual relationship, etc, can you then receive the sacraments immediately after?

If you continue the sin, I do not believe that you can.

The idea is that confession is coupled by a genuine desire to change the sinful behavior. It's not just a "get out of purgatory/hell free" card.

Possibly, Catholics who go to confession but do not believe they are sinning by using contraceptives and living in an unmarried sexual relationship would not mention that during confession.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Strict new rules issued by the Pope for Catholics. Sacrament not to be given to remarried Catholics unless they remain celibate with their new partners, sacrament not to be given to Protestants, and re-establish Latin mass with Gregorian chants.

Will that affect the numbers of Catholics, as recorded in the '07 church yearbook?

I like Gregorian chants.

I also like my services in mostly Hebrew. Would the Catholics here enjoy mass in Latin?

 

[Boyzmomee]

I doubt that would affect the numbers of Catholics because these aren't exactly new rules. What the Pope did was just reaffirm the teachings that the Catholic Church has always held.

The re-establishment of the Latin Mass with Gregorian chants is a suggestion from the Pope where there are large numbers of international participants.

I can go to synagogue in any country and understand the service.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Um, Peter, actually the trend is in the obvious direction. The supposed health benefits of circumcision are highly debatable (and I'm not at all sure how it helps with AIDS), and even those supposed benefits can also be accomplished with regular, basic hygiene. As I understand the recent studies, anyway.QUOTE]


Incorrect. Nova. There are studies out now that show that if men were circumcised in Africa, it would reduce AIDS cases by over half.

It's more than hygiene. Just as a woman who douches after intercourse cannot prevent pregnancy, AIDS is significantly eaiser to transmit to an uncircumcised man.

 

[Boyzmomee]

That's exactly right, Nova. All the Church can do is inform its members of the teachings. But it is up to the individual people whether or not to strictly follow the teachings. When a Catholic walks up to receive Communion, the priest doesn't ask first if you take birth control pills, if you you've been divorced and remarried, if you are in the state of sin, etc. All of that is between the individual and God.

As it should be. Can you imagine how long it would take to get through the communion line of there was a questionaire?

 

[sandraladeda]

I heard a really good analogy for explaning mortal vs. venial sins.

Picture this. We are connected to God by an intravenous tube. We are fed through that tube. If we commit a mortal sin (example, murder someone) then we cut ourselves completely off from God - the intravenous tube has been completely clamped, no flow through the tube. If we commit a venial sin (example, lie to someone) the flow through the tube gets inhibited a bit, but the flow is not stopped. God does not cut us off, we cut ourselves off from God.

Just to add to what soutcitymom said about confession, one does not receive forgiveness from the priest, but the priest acting for God, so to speak. In additon to forgiveness, we receive God's grace. After we have been forgiven for the sin, God's grace helps us to avoid the pitfall of that particular sin. As an example, let's say I have a big fight with my husband, and we live in icy silence for a week. I am dwelling on my anger, and am miserable, and need help to get past it. I can go to a priest, confess my part in the fight, and declare my desire to avoid such fights. Depending on the priest, I may be given a prayer to recite (3 Hail Marys), a biblical passage to read, or be told to do some other act (do 3 loving and considerate things for my husband) The grace that comes from the confession helps me to avoid the fight next time. As I am about to lose my temper, my self-control might kick in, and I might be able to say, ah, it's not worth it to get into a fight about this. God's grace gives me the ability to do this.

I have come to rely on confession a great deal. For me, it helps me to be a better person. It heps me to have the humility to say "I'm wrong". It helps me to see my part in a conflict, and helps me see what I need to work on (my anger, my pride) Confession has seen me through some rough times. It is something that has to be experienced to fully understand. It is not humiliating, it is liberating. When I come out, I feel like a shiny new dime, with a fresh start and resolve to do better.

It helps to have a good priest you trust and feel comfortable talking with openly. I am fortunate to have 3 priests I see regularly for confession and spiritual direction.

I hope I have helped to cast a positive light on confession.