2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test?

[marla]

Yes, he might have said chloroform and hair. The trunk contained elevated levels of chloroform, as well as at least one hair from Caylee (post-mortem).

As an aside, the trunk may have also contained Caylee's hairs from 2006.

OIC ..
I don't think that's what he said at all ..

Sounds a little like grasping to me .. <shrug>

 

[PattyCake]

Yes, he might have said chloroform and hair. The trunk contained elevated levels of chloroform, as well as at least one hair from Caylee (post-mortem).

As an aside, the trunk may have also contained Caylee's hairs from 2006.

ON a science level, there is a big difference of finding chloroform on Caylees hair compared to finding it grown within the hair interior. Having those elevated levels in the trunk could not produce the same results as the types of testing they were discussing last night.

A hair strand test can show MONTHS of drug abuse in someone based on the rate of growth, they can pinpoint each month the drug was used on the child.

As in the case they were discussing with Anna Nicole. They said there would be evidence of crime of Anna's son... should they be able to test Anna's hair. It would show if Anna was taking Methadone (what killed her son) during the exact time her son died, then LE can make assumptions towards WHO supplied the son with Methadone.

Methadone was found in Anna Nicoles room with Howard Sterns name on it when she died. Therefore he could have supplied a lethal dose to the boy as well.

Hope that made sense.

 

[ecs5298]

It may not show cause of death, but DOES show criminal behavior on the part of KC. Chloroforming your child is criminal and could easily kill a child. That is good enough for me. Sure does not lean towards any form of innocence on KC's end at all. It shows horrific abuse towards this child.

Oh, yes! That's what I was saying. It might not make any difference for the ME's COD but it is a huge thing for the prosecution to be able to nail her with because there is absolutely no acceptable reason for a child to have chloroform in their system.

 

[whiteangora]

If Casey was chloroforming Caylee on a reg basis, the inhalation method makes no sense since it needs to be administered every 15-20 minutes to continue "sleep".
How is chloroform used if taken orally? Will it induce a longer sleep?
How would anyone mask the strong taste and prevent mouth and throat burns?
I think if it was used, it was only used one fatal time.
She could have been using Benadryl or other drugs to put Caylee to sleep on party nights....I can't buy the chloroforming her on a reg basis.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Dr. Baden...

...since all of the bones were contained in the bag.

How is his track record for giving factual information as a talking head?

Pull his finger.

 

[manatee]

She is one of my top 3 of "who would you buy a book from" on this case.

Me too! that's why I want her to be the first to report this.

 

[amethyst221]

Whatever Baden said, what is the basis for the assumption that the defense experts had no opportunity to run their own tests on hair still with the remains? The remains got turned over to them at some point, and Casey was the last to have custody, until she finally ceded it to her parents. They did their second autopsy and whatever they chose, no doubt. That seems a likely source for Baden's info (if he is correct), given his inside track with the defense.

 

[JustJax]

I'm 99.9% sure there has been NO discovery released where chloroform was indicated in Caylee's hair. If it were, it would be a true bombshell, and would link KC to the crime. You're definitely on to something, unless Dr. Baden's comment was hypothetical.

I've been hoping that traces of chloroform would be found in the hair, but I also hear that it evaporates quickly. I don't know if hair strands would absorb and preserve it.

On that note, we know no fingerprints from CA, GA or LA were found on the duct tape. But am I correct in understanding that KC's fingerprints MAY be on the tape, and they're holding back that info?

If chlorofrom does leave it's traces in hair rather than evaproate, and Casey was using the chloroform to sedate Caylee so she could party on a somewhat regular basis, it doesn't nesessarly have to he "the hair" found in the trunk. It could be any hair they found in her bedding or on hairbrushes, etc. I think it will be a while before the tox results are released, maybe not till trial....I am sure they are testing to see if any drugs that Caylee should not have had in her short life were present.

 

[Hot Dogs]

It would be helpful if we knew about how chloroform is metabolized and if it is stored in tissue (or hair) as something that can be detected.

 

[Friday]

Two Important Questions:

Do Discovery Rules work both ways? I understand that the Prosecution is obliged to share with the Defense any evidence they plan to use against the defendant, and any evidence that might specifically vindicate the accused. Now then, If the Defense's forensics experts discovered something damning against KC (like traces of a poison in Caylee's hair or an overlooked KC fingerprint on the duct tape) is the Defense obligated to share that information with the Prosecution?

Second question: I've heard it said that the Defense is allowed to lie (or is under no obligation to be truthful) during the trial. Is that correct? And if so, does the Prosecution have the same rights?

I think I know the answers, but I need them verified (or clarified) by someone who is truly knowledgeable.

TYIA

 

[PattyCake]

I'm 99.9% sure there has been NO discovery released where chloroform was indicated in Caylee's hair. If it were, it would be a true bombshell, and would link KC to the crime. You're definitely on to something, unless Dr. Baden's comment was hypothetical.

I've been hoping that traces of chloroform would be found in the hair, but I also hear that it evaporates quickly. I don't know if hair strands would absorb and preserve it.

On that note, we know no fingerprints from CA, GA or LA were found on the duct tape. But am I correct in understanding that KC's fingerprints MAY be on the tape, and they're holding back that info?

My 'assumption' is yes, they have something from the duct tape as it was specifically written out certain people were cleared. IF KC's prints were not on there, I cannot see a reason not to add her in that context. Lets cross our fingers and hope this prosecution has an unbelievable amount of evidence pointing only toward one person without a doubt.

She's really REALLY stupid not to take a plea deal. But alas, that's the narcissism within her. Nothing will make her plea, not even dp!

 

[amethyst221]

To come full circle to where other posters started, if it's true about chloroform in Caylee's hair, then no doubt the defense will look for someone to blame besides Casey, like someone with chloroform related, tasteless garbage on his computer. Oh, well. I wish I knew more about the properties and metabolism of chloroform.

 

[cyberborg]

Hmmm....I'm wondering why Geraldo even led him into that statement, though by bringing up Caylee? G says, "...they way you tested poor little Caylee's, the baby's hair..." Dr B: - almost correcting him, "yeah...found chloroform in the baby's hair."....it was like he was correcting him - No, Geraldo - we didn't just test the baby's hair, we found chloroform.

Don't know whether this has been said, haven't caught up yet but -- this might have been a ploy by the Defense to get it out there so that they can start knocking it down and spin it to SODDI.

It lessens the impact when the discovery comes out if they tackle it sooner.

Baden bumbles a lot so this may be LKB's 'Spector moment'.

 

[amethyst221]

It would be helpful if we knew about how chloroform is metabolized and if it is stored in tissue (or hair) as something that can be detected.

We know from the coroner and from Baden that it can be stored in hair, but not for how long. Tissue wasn't specifically addressed since there was none left.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Whatever Baden said, what is the basis for the assumption that the defense experts had no opportunity to run their own tests on hair still with the remains?

What is the basis for the assumption that they did test hairs? The proper burden of proof on a Websleuther is not to show that they didn't test hair, but instead would be to show that they did test hair.

The remains got turned over to them at some point, and Casey was the last to have custody, until she finally ceded it to her parents. They did their second autopsy and whatever they chose, no doubt. That seems a likely source for Baden's info (if he is correct), given his inside track with the defense.

Can you show that the "second autopsy" by the defense was much more than simply being allowed to inspect the remains inside the OCSO evidence lab? I'm really curious if they were allowed to take the remains away and do an autopsy at a lab facility of their own choice.

 

[Hell's Belle]

Deleted because I can't fix the format.

 

[PattyCake]

What is the basis for the assumption that they did test hairs? The proper burden of proof on a Websleuther is not to show that they didn't test hair, but instead would be to show that they did test hair.




Can you show that the "second autopsy" by the defense was much more than simply being allowed to inspect the remains inside the OCSO evidence lab? I'm really curious if they were allowed to take the remains away and do an autopsy at a lab facility of their own choice.

Hotdog, Caylees remains were given TO the defense.

The defense would never have allowed for burial / cremation if they did not conduct every last test possible on the remains. They would not have released the remains until every possible thing was completed. Absolutely they were allowed to conduct their own tests. Every defense is allowed to use their own experts.

sorry, my wording sounds harsh. it wasn't meant that way

 

[amethyst221]

We know from the coroner and from Baden that it can be stored in hair, but not for how long. Tissue wasn't specifically addressed since there was none left.

Actually, I have to correct myself on this. Dr. G may have been addressing drugs in general, not specifically chloroform. I do seem to remember people asking about that, but I could be wrong. So IF a drug would show up in hair, then it still couldn't show COD, but just past exposure. The question is whether chloroform does.

 

[cajun]

Hotdog, Caylees remains were given TO the defense.

The defense would never have allowed for burial / cremation if they did not conduct every last test possible on the remains. They would not have released the remains until every possible thing was completed. Absolutely they were allowed to conduct their own tests. Every defense is allowed to use their own experts.

Exactamundo. they had Caylee's remains for nearly a month, if they didn't perform all the testing they needed too, well they are too stupid for words..

 

[TakeNote]

If Dr. Baden does have information that chloroform was found in or on hair, then it did come from an OCSO/FBI leak. That information is nowhere in any of the doc dumps. The doc dumps are what the prosecution gives to the defense as discovery. Unless there was a leak, the defense does not know more about the forensics than we do.

Talking heads have said a variety of things like KC's prints were found on the duct tape, the toy horse matches one(s) in the house, heart sticker matches, a knife with the body, etc.

I would think that the defense has done their own testing on Caylee's hair