2009.03.14 Geraldo - Dr. Baden, Slip or Not on Chloroform In Caylee's hair test?

[RR0004]

To come full circle to where other posters started, if it's true about chloroform in Caylee's hair, then no doubt the defense will look for someone to blame besides Casey, like someone with chloroform related, tasteless garbage on his computer. Oh, well. I wish I knew more about the properties and metabolism of chloroform.

Somewhere on here is a wealth of info about it.

 

[JustJax]

If Dr. Baden does have information that chloroform was found in or on hair, then it did come from an OCSO/FBI leak. That information is nowhere in any of the doc dumps. The doc dumps are what the prosecution gives to the defense as discovery. Unless there was a leak, the defense does not know more about the forensics than we do.

Talking heads have said a variety of things like KC's prints were found on the duct tape, the toy horse matches one(s) in the house, heart sticker matches, a knife with the body, etc.

(mybold)

Not nesessarily. Lee and the whole defence team made several visits to the A home and I would venture a guess they may have done some testing themselves.

 

[RR0004]

Exactamundo. they had Caylee's remains for nearly a month, if they didn't perform all the testing they needed too, well they are too stupid for words..

OMG, Cajun...your latest installment in this never-ending saga is way too funny for words.

 

[RR0004]

I would think that the defense has done their own testing on Caylee's hair

Yes, I agree...but what if Geraldo's statement was some kind of set-up meant for folks just like us?

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Whatever Baden said, what is the basis for the assumption that the defense experts had no opportunity to run their own tests on hair still with the remains? The remains got turned over to them at some point, and Casey was the last to have custody, until she finally ceded it to her parents. They did their second autopsy and whatever they chose, no doubt. That seems a likely source for Baden's info (if he is correct), given his inside track with the defense.

He is not on the defense. Is he privy to this information just because his wife is on the defense? Would that not create a problem? Just wondering?

 

[RR0004]

What is the basis for the assumption that they did test hairs? The proper burden of proof on a Websleuther is not to show that they didn't test hair, but instead would be to show that they did test hair.




Can you show that the "second autopsy" by the defense was much more than simply being allowed to inspect the remains inside the OCSO evidence lab? I'm really curious if they were allowed to take the remains away and do an autopsy at a lab facility of their own choice.

I remember they had asked to use Orange County's facility (not exactly sure where) and they were denied. My guess is they found somewhere else.

 

[RR0004]

He is not on the defense. Is he privy to this information just because his wife is on the defense? Would that not create a problem? Just wondering?

It bothers me to no end if he's her plant in the media.

 

[star444]

The first step is to have Baden confirm that he said what we think he said. I want to know if he said chloroform and hair.

"Dog n Suds" (drive in restaurant) is not Dog in Suds, but it sure sounds like it when you hear somebody say it.

I think the answer is obvious if you consider the topic of discussion. If they were discussing whether it is relevent to search for evidence, then "they found chloroform and the baby's hair" could make sense. But, they were discussing whether it is relevent to test hair for the presence of drugs. In that context "and" simply does not make sense. "They found chloroform in the baby's hair" does make sense.

 

[natsound]

BUT... if Baden knows they found chloroform in the baby's hair.. the only way he would know this is through the tests done in Quantico... so LE would know too. Right? In other words... no need to inform LE. He just let it slip cuz he forgot what's been released and what hasn't.

 

[natsound]

My 'assumption' is yes, they have something from the duct tape as it was specifically written out certain people were cleared. IF KC's prints were not on there, I cannot see a reason not to add her in that context. Lets cross our fingers and hope this prosecution has an unbelievable amount of evidence pointing only toward one person without a doubt.

She's really REALLY stupid not to take a plea deal. But alas, that's the narcissism within her. Nothing will make her plea, not even dp!

Thanks for clearing that up, PC. I bet there's a VERY GOOD reason KC was not excluded on that list. SA may be resting very, very, very easy right now.

 

[RR0004]

Two Important Questions:

Do Discovery Rules work both ways? I understand that the Prosecution is obliged to share with the Defense any evidence they plan to use against the defendant, and any evidence that might specifically vindicate the accused. Now then, If the Defense's forensics experts discovered something damning against KC (like traces of a poison in Caylee's hair or an overlooked KC fingerprint on the duct tape) is the Defense obligated to share that information with the Prosecution?

Second question: I've heard it said that the Defense is allowed to lie (or is under no obligation to be truthful) during the trial. Is that correct? And if so, does the Prosecution have the same rights?

I think I know the answers, but I need them verified (or clarified) by someone who is truly knowledgeable.

TYIA

Yes, I believe discovery works both ways...that's about as much as I got.
But, lying, well in a courtroom that wouldn't surprise me. Think about it, Casey says she's innocent...can you get a bigger whopper than that? But, I don't think lying, twisting, misleading is the true issue here. I think you may be wondering if they can "manufacture" evidence (?) I would trust the SA would never be involved with saying they have something when they do not. The defense can blah, blah, blah till the cows come home. They'll have to either put up or shut up IMO.

 

[amethyst221]

He is not on the defense. Is he privy to this information just because his wife is on the defense? Would that not create a problem? Just wondering?

He is not identified as an expert witness who will be called at trial, yet. But maybe they come as a package anyway. He may be serving as a defense consulting expert with no expectation he will testify at trial. I have no idea, and no idea if the info is even true at this point.

 

[RR0004]

BUT... if Baden knows they found chloroform in the baby's hair.. the only way he would know this is through the tests done in Quantico... so LE would know too. Right? In other words... no need to inform LE. He just let it slip cuz he forgot what's been released and what hasn't.

That could be...but the hair that showed decomp wasn't able to be tested if I remember correctly (all used up in the process). The other hair would no doubt have been tested by the defense.

 

[Hot Dogs]

From this thread titled, "Second Autopsy COMPLETE".

Just before 11am on, In Session (TrueTV), Jean Casarez confirmed she had just spoken with Dr. Daniel Spitz and yes, his father, Dr. Warner Spitz did preformed a second autopsy right before (or after, I forgot what she said) Christmas without the media seeing him enter the funeral home in Florida.

The defense is waiting on tissue samples (along w/other samples) from the state to decide if they (the defense) will do any further testing before Caylee can be laid to rest.

This is what I understood (barely) from Dr. Lee last night on NG.
The second 'autopsy' has been performed.
They do not have any samples to test for toxicology.
They are waiting for the x-rays from the state to compare their x-rays to.
They are waiting for the results from the state to compare their results to.
He seemed to imply the second 'autopsy' would not be considered complete until the comparisons to the first 'autopsy' were done.

I don't understand any of this. Isn't the point of doing a second 'autopsy' by the defense to have independent findings? Why can't they take samples from the bones the same way the state did? The state was able to complete an 'autopsy' without a prior 'autopsy' to compare to, so why can't the defense?
Can anyone explain this to me where it comes off at least slightly plausible?

Video of InSession 1/08.

InSession's Jean Cesares paraphrased...

Autopsy done at funeral home. Very fast. He went in... he went out.

 

[cajun]

OMG, Cajun...your latest installment in this never-ending saga is way too funny for words.

Thanks. I wonder how many Episodes there will be before we see "The End":crazy:

 

[RR0004]

Don't know whether this has been said, haven't caught up yet but -- this might have been a ploy by the Defense to get it out there so that they can start knocking it down and spin it to SODDI.

It lessens the impact when the discovery comes out if they tackle it sooner.

Baden bumbles a lot so this may be LKB's 'Spector moment'.

I'm wondering the same thing...slick if that's the case.

 

[Bittiness39]

Oh god, he'll probably call another "presser" ..

Ughh...and then go before a judge and whine about it...LOL. "Your honor, the fact that everything leads to my client being guilty is just unfair...so unfair...I want 12 illogical people on the jury but I can't pick any of the Anthony's..." Darn.
Assuming that chloroform was found in Caylee's hair:

Chloroform in the baby's hair = to a logical person: Her disgusting mother had been drugging the poor child.

Chloroform in the baby's hair = to an illogical person: RM did it. ZFG did it. ZFG's sister Sam did it. AH did it. Anyone but KC...ummmkay...??

 

[Baznme]

If Dr. Baden does have information that chloroform was found in or on hair, then it did come from an OCSO/FBI leak. That information is nowhere in any of the doc dumps. The doc dumps are what the prosecution gives to the defense as discovery. Unless there was a leak, the defense does not know more about the forensics than we do.

Talking heads have said a variety of things like KC's prints were found on the duct tape, the toy horse matches one(s) in the house, heart sticker matches, a knife with the body, etc.

Yeah, but how many of those talking heads turns out the be the husband of the perp's defense attorney?! :laugh::laugh:

 

[RR0004]

From this thread titled, "Second Autopsy COMPLETE".





Video of InSession 1/08.

InSession's Jean Cesares paraphrased...

I see what you're saying, but IMO it would make absolutely NO sense not to run tests on the hair to compare the findings with LE. So if it's true that something was found by LE, how can they counteract that with a claim that their science is faulty if they never did their own tests?

ETA: Besides the fact that it would make Lee look kinda incompetent...ok maybe that IS the point.

 

[Hot Dogs]

We need evidence that the defense's "second autopsy" was more than a quick in/out at the funeral home by Dr. Spitz, and that the State has ever given the defense any samples for their own testing.

Anybody got those?