2009.05.07 - new motion by State to Determine Counsel

[Mamabear1963]

Well said, and I totally agree. Baez will have to be FORCED to step down into a lesser role (or even out completely) and that is the roadblock. He can't or won't accept that.

I think you are right...and forced is the key word here...would the judge have the authority to remove JB from the case...even if KC "really wants him?

 

[essies]

Yes! Those are JB's other three attorneys! Did you get that clip from JB's press conference?

No, but I heard JB was hooking up with Dewey, Cheatham and Howe!

 

[amethyst221]

The issue isn't only what/how the DP lawyer will be paid. But that the DP lawyer will have to take orders from JB.

What experienced lawyer is going to take orders from a totally in-experienced lawyer??? Knowing he/she will take the 'hit' for how it all goes down.

If I was a betting person, I would bet that those "8" lawyers that JB mentioned, is the number to date of lawyers that have had contact , that thought to help, but quickly realized JB didn't want their imput/exprience, etc. They were to take orders from him, and he doesn't know what he is doing. They were to put their Honorable Name to his stupidity.So they left. JMHO based upon JB's ego.

From what I've seen of JB in court, what Little I know about court, I'm shocked to watch him in action. His peers were laughing at him in court.

Since the PR would gain the person paying clients.. I really think the problem is the issue of dealing with JB.

Good post. I suppose that so long as you can pay them all what they require, and you have a qualified lead counsel, you can have as many lawyers on the "team" as you want to have. My questions, too, are about the practicalities, even if you leave aside opinions about JB. Does qualified "lead counsel" actually have to take the lead in court and in developing strategy, to the exclusion of someone who can't qualify under the statute as lead or even co-counsel? Or is it enough that someone qualified just gets on board as a figurehead who presumably works in the background and allows JB to carry on as he has been in the public eye and in court? Who would be willing to do that? Why? People with lots of DP case experience usually strike me as committed types of people who care about quality of representation issues.

I think the suggestion that the defendant could "waive" the statutory requirements and insist upon under-qualified lead counsel is interesting, but I'm not sure she can do that. Who would advise her, so that she could make a knowing and voluntary waiver --- her under-qualified lawyer???? I can't see that holding up later to stop post-conviction challenges of all sorts, the very challenges the state is trying to ward off by requiring more able representation by means of these rules.

Someone suggested the defendant could dump them all and proceed pro se, represent herself. You have a right to do so, even in a capital case. It would take away later claims of ineffective assistance, but is otherwise a horrible mess. (I remember a recent case I'm pretty sure was in Florida where this happened, with the whacky old guy defendant who got himself convicted. Post-trial, the question whether he was even competent to stand trial got reopened.) Anyway, courts sometimes appoint "advisory" counsel to assist pro se defendants, even against their will. But no way a court would appoint an advisory lawyer who wasn't DP qualified. I wish Terry L or one of the talking heads who actually knows Florida criminal law well would address these kinds of questions. Maybe the state's motion will do something.

 

[RR0004]

She prolly doesn't care. He's a lawyer whom she can manipulate. She can flirt, get lots of visits, and share licorice.

It's also someone SHE decided on (by default if you ask me)... Even the As had their doubts about this man. NO WAY would Casey listen to anyone else, regardless if it was in her best interests...ESPECIALLY not her parents. OMG, that family sure had/has a strange relationship going on. Nope, I can't see her giving up JB. She has to be in control in order for it to be all about her.

 

[amethyst221]

It's also someone SHE decided on (by default if you ask me)... Even the As had their doubts about this man. NO WAY would Casey listen to anyone else, regardless if it was in her best interests...ESPECIALLY not her parents. OMG, that family sure had/has a strange relationship going on. Nope, I can't see her giving up JB. She has to be in control in order for it to be all about her.

yup. They all choose lawyers they can control, the whole family.

 

[RR0004]

Good post. I suppose that so long as you can pay them all what they require, and you have a qualified lead counsel, you can have as many lawyers on the "team" as you want to have. My questions, too, are about the practicalities, even if you leave aside opinions about JB. Does qualified "lead counsel" actually have to take the lead in court and in developing strategy, to the exclusion of someone who can't qualify under the statute as lead or even co-counsel? Or is it enough that someone qualified just gets on board as a figurehead who presumably works in the background and allows JB to carry on as he has been in the public eye and in court? Who would be willing to do that? Why? People with lots of DP case experience usually strike me as committed types of people who care about quality of representation issues.

I think the suggestion that the defendant could "waive" the statutory requirements and insist upon under-qualified lead counsel is interesting, but I'm not sure she can do that. Who would advise her, so that she could make a knowing and voluntary waiver --- her under-qualified lawyer???? I can't see that holding up later to stop post-conviction challenges of all sorts, the very challenges the state is trying to ward off by requiring more able representation by means of these rules.

Someone suggested the defendant could dump them all and proceed pro se, represent herself. You have a right to do so, even in a capital case. It would take away later claims of ineffective assistance, but is otherwise a horrible mess. (I remember a recent case I'm pretty sure was in Florida where this happened, with the whacky old guy defendant who got himself convicted. Post-trial, the question whether he was even competent to stand trial got reopened.) Anyway, courts sometimes appoint "advisory" counsel to assist pro se defendants, even against their will. But no way a court would appoint an advisory lawyer who wasn't DP qualified. I wish Terry L or one of the talking heads who actually knows Florida criminal law well would address these kinds of questions. Maybe the state's motion will do something.

Interesting....when I first started to type I was going to respond that JB wouldn't mind giving up the "leader" role...especially all the work it entails...but now I think that perhaps his ego won't let him. I've watched this man in court...he is not comfortable AT ALL. He's deferred to LKB in interviews and seems more than happy to do so. (Hey, look! I got smart friends!!) But, when it comes down to it...the "big show"...I don't think he would want to give it up. I sure hope the judge ensures that he does because the last thing this case needs is JB's ego.

 

[nephers]

I really hope KC gets a new lead attorney. Don't jump on me for this but she, just like anyone else, deserves a fair trial. I don't think that JB is qualified to help her get a fair trial. He has fumbled through the discovery process, I cannot imagine what he would be like at trial (although it is very entertaining to watch him at work!). I would much rather see her get off with the help of a good attorney then to see her in jail with the help of an inexperienced attorney. I, like most people, am leaning towards this being a premeditated crime that KC did but what if she is innocent (which I doubt but what if?)? If one innocent person goes to jail that is too much. I'm kinda rambling but I really want to see her have good counsel.

 

[RR0004]

I really hope KC gets a new lead attorney. Don't jump on me for this but she, just like anyone else, deserves a fair trial. I don't think that JB is qualified to help her get a fair trial. He has fumbled through the discovery process, I cannot imagine what he would be like at trial (although it is very entertaining to watch him at work!). I would much rather see her get off with the help of a good attorney then to see her in jail with the help of an inexperienced attorney. I, like most people, am leaning towards this being a premeditated crime that KC did but what if she is innocent (which I doubt but what if?)? If one innocent person goes to jail that is too much. I'm kinda rambling but I really want to see her have good counsel.

I just want to see her in jail for the rest of her life...I personally don't care how that happens, but with that said...the man is a joke. In fairness to what the justice system represents (and good lawyers everywhere!), he should not be lead counsel on a case of this magnitude, regardless who is being tried.

PS- I know where you're coming from.

 

[Brini]

Interesting....when I first started to type I was going to respond that JB wouldn't mind giving up the "leader" role...especially all the work it entails...but now I think that perhaps his ego won't let him. I've watched this man in court...he is not comfortable AT ALL. He's deferred to LKB in interviews and seems more than happy to do so. (Hey, look! I got smart friends!!) But, when it comes down to it...the "big show"...I don't think he would want to give it up. I sure hope the judge ensures that he does because the last thing this case needs is JB's ego.

He wants to make a name for himself. And, he has! But, it's not a name anyone would want. Particularly a lawyer.

 

[debs]

I really hope KC gets a new lead attorney. Don't jump on me for this but she, just like anyone else, deserves a fair trial. I don't think that JB is qualified to help her get a fair trial. He has fumbled through the discovery process, I cannot imagine what he would be like at trial (although it is very entertaining to watch him at work!). I would much rather see her get off with the help of a good attorney then to see her in jail with the help of an inexperienced attorney. I, like most people, am leaning towards this being a premeditated crime that KC did but what if she is innocent (which I doubt but what if?)? If one innocent person goes to jail that is too much. I'm kinda rambling but I really want to see her have good counsel.

If it looks like Casey is innocent and covering up for someone else, I have no doubt that young Ms. Anthony will save her neck.

 

[songline]

A little tidbit that came with the email about this motion, which I think says a lot:

Late this afternoon, the State filed the below document with the Orange County Clerk of Courts.

While the State understands the importance of this information to the community, this office does not want to create the type of publicity that would lead to a change of venue. Therefore, we will not comment further on the case itself.

I can not Imagen a change of venue.
I think they have close to 30 witnesses if not more.
I think the case will go on for a while.
and I do not think the state will pick up a hotel bill for that many people.
I also believe that this case is internationally known after all it is not every day
that a child goes missing and 31 days go by before a 911 call is made
So what is the point of changing venue?
doesn't South Florida have radio, TV and Newspapers?

 

[songline]

I really hope KC gets a new lead attorney. Don't jump on me for this but she, just like anyone else, deserves a fair trial. I don't think that JB is qualified to help her get a fair trial. He has fumbled through the discovery process, I cannot imagine what he would be like at trial (although it is very entertaining to watch him at work!). I would much rather see her get off with the help of a good attorney then to see her in jail with the help of an inexperienced attorney. I, like most people, am leaning towards this being a premeditated crime that KC did but what if she is innocent (which I doubt but what if?)? If one innocent person goes to jail that is too much. I'm kinda rambling but I really want to see her have good counsel.

GREAT POST:blowkiss:
Few out here think like me....
I HAVE BEEN JUMPED ON.
BUT I still say what I think.....

GO nephers GO :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[songline]

It's also someone SHE decided on (by default if you ask me)... Even the As had their doubts about this man. NO WAY would Casey listen to anyone else, regardless if it was in her best interests...ESPECIALLY not her parents. OMG, that family sure had/has a strange relationship going on. Nope, I can't see her giving up JB. She has to be in control in order for it to be all about her.

I am afraid that Casey is not smart enough and would hope she would listen to a qualified person.
The problem is Whom should she be listening to for her own best interest?
not JB.

 

[Spangle]

Interesting....when I first started to type I was going to respond that JB wouldn't mind giving up the "leader" role...especially all the work it entails...but now I think that perhaps his ego won't let him. I've watched this man in court...he is not comfortable AT ALL. He's deferred to LKB in interviews and seems more than happy to do so. (Hey, look! I got smart friends!!) But, when it comes down to it...the "big show"...I don't think he would want to give it up. I sure hope the judge ensures that he does because the last thing this case needs is JB's ego.

There is a difference from thinking you can do something, and actually doing it. My un-expert opinion of what your seeing, is that JB IN THE END defers to her.. cause he has no choice at that moment. He has to come up with an answer right then, and he doesn't have it. Then and only then he puts someone else in the "hot seat".

But most of the work is behind close doors. Where he is talking big, and believing it. He is the boss and acting like it.

In the courtroom, the Judge is the real boss. Reality time.

 

[Spangle]

Good post. I suppose that so long as you can pay them all what they require, and you have a qualified lead counsel, you can have as many lawyers on the "team" as you want to have. My questions, too, are about the practicalities, even if you leave aside opinions about JB. Does qualified "lead counsel" actually have to take the lead in court and in developing strategy, to the exclusion of someone who can't qualify under the statute as lead or even co-counsel? Or is it enough that someone qualified just gets on board as a figurehead who presumably works in the background and allows JB to carry on as he has been in the public eye and in court? Who would be willing to do that? Why? People with lots of DP case experience usually strike me as committed types of people who care about quality of representation issues.

I think the suggestion that the defendant could "waive" the statutory requirements and insist upon under-qualified lead counsel is interesting, but I'm not sure she can do that. Who would advise her, so that she could make a knowing and voluntary waiver --- her under-qualified lawyer???? I can't see that holding up later to stop post-conviction challenges of all sorts, the very challenges the state is trying to ward off by requiring more able representation by means of these rules.

Someone suggested the defendant could dump them all and proceed pro se, represent herself. You have a right to do so, even in a capital case. It would take away later claims of ineffective assistance, but is otherwise a horrible mess. (I remember a recent case I'm pretty sure was in Florida where this happened, with the whacky old guy defendant who got himself convicted. Post-trial, the question whether he was even competent to stand trial got reopened.) Anyway, courts sometimes appoint "advisory" counsel to assist pro se defendants, even against their will. But no way a court would appoint an advisory lawyer who wasn't DP qualified. I wish Terry L or one of the talking heads who actually knows Florida criminal law well would address these kinds of questions. Maybe the state's motion will do something.

I think a person with such experience wouldn't just let them use his/her name to make it legit on the books. His/her record is at stake and would be 'responsible' for what the team does. Just allowing them to use his/her name for the record would be breaking the spirit of the rules.

I don't know for fact. It would just seem like they really would have to be the 'boss'. The whole point of that rule is to ensure that the defendant is ensured of counsel that knows what they are doing. I'm sure the bar has all ready thought out how to prevent some lesser Lawyer from pulling such a stunt.

 

[Moe]

I really wish Judge Strickland had jumped quickly on this motion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that a deposition of a witnesses in Florida can only be held once. If this is true, JB has already completed a few. If he's as inept at deposing as he is in the court room there could be big trouble for the case already. I hope I'm wrong about this.

 

[MAMABEAR]

After reading all ya'll's post----Judge S. is really a cool guy and tho I haven't seen and don't know much about him---from the vibes I get from him---he seems to be a pretty smart guy---on the ball. It may take him a few more days of paper work, but he is on top of it. For my own sanity, I have to make myself relax and let him play this out. I'm waiting for the Bar to kick JB out.

The man is sittin there spinning his wheels. I bet that he thinks if he struts his stuff (motions all over the place---pressers) that he thinks he looks, like he knows what he is doing. He thinks he can fool e-body

Same thang with CA/GA goin on their tour---they think they can fool e-body. We have sit here and watched their reactions to Caylee---her lil body laying out there rottin. Don't know for a fact that they knew where she was but they sure as H3ll knew she was dead. (smell---trunk). They knew she was dead. Yet they jumped on the band wagon with throwing pics of other lil girls out there----knowing she was dead. I bet somebody in the A. group knew where her lil body was.

I don't know why they all (JB/CA/GA/BC) act goofy as they have been doin but it will stop soon. Short hairs are on the way. I do not think there is some dark gang responsible for baby Caylee.s death. What you see is what you git. Yes we see DARK---that is what you are seeing when you see these peeps running round wid they heads cut off.

 

[RR0004]

After reading all ya'll's post----Judge S. is really a cool guy and tho I haven't seen and don't know much about him---from the vibes I get from him---he seems to be a pretty smart guy---on the ball. It may take him a few more days of paper work, but he is on top of it. For my own sanity, I have to make myself relax and let him play this out. I'm waiting for the Bar to kick JB out.

The man is sittin there spinning his wheels. I bet that he thinks if he struts his stuff (motions all over the place---pressers) that he thinks he looks, like he knows what he is doing. He thinks he can fool e-body

Same thang with CA/GA goin on their tour---they think they can fool e-body. We have sit here and watched their reactions to Caylee---her lil body laying out there rottin. Don't know for a fact that they knew where she was but they sure as H3ll knew she was dead. (smell---trunk). They knew she was dead. Yet they jumped on the band wagon with throwing pics of other lil girls out there----knowing she was dead. I bet somebody in the A. group knew where her lil body was.

I don't know why they all (JB/CA/GA/BC) act goofy as they have been doin but it will stop soon. Short hairs are on the way. I do not think there is some dark gang responsible for baby Caylee.s death. What you see is what you git. Yes we see DARK---that is what you are seeing when you see these peeps running round wid they heads cut off.

I so pray that you're right. Caylee sometimes gets lost in all this...and it breaks my heart.

 

[songline]

I think a person with such experience wouldn't just let them use his/her name to make it legit on the books. His/her record is at stake and would be 'responsible' for what the team does. Just allowing them to use his/her name for the record would be breaking the spirit of the rules.

I don't know for fact. It would just seem like they really would have to be the 'boss'. The whole point of that rule is to ensure that the defendant is ensured of counsel that knows what they are doing. I'm sure the bar has all ready thought out how to prevent some lesser Lawyer from pulling such a stunt.

These thoughts is what happens when sensible people want to make sense of this group of people. :blowkiss:
I agree with everything you said Spangle.
But the caliber of players in this field do not seem to be bound by your moral code at all.
If I may say this group reads like a who is who from a rotten scoundrel list.
No don't worry they are not talking of the same caliber that you are.
They must have a list of those that would participate, you can count on that.

 

[nssherlock]

I really wish Judge Strickland had jumped quickly on this motion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that a deposition of a witnesses in Florida can only be held once. If this is true, JB has already completed a few. If he's as inept at deposing as he is in the court room there could be big trouble for the case already. I hope I'm wrong about this.

We DID hear that a person can only be deposed once...........so what does that say to JB's claim that he's going back for seconds with Unser? I agree that a competent lawyer needs to be appointed quickly before the mess JB's made is irreparable!