2009.07.30 Deposition Lee Anthony

  • #121
I'm almost finished LA's depo and I must say out of all three, his annoys me the most. If I read (laughs) one more time I may lose it. He takes the cake for me. I'm thinking about ditching the last pages out of annoyance. It's an idiocracy I tell ya!
 
  • #122
Things I noticed:

Lee didn't mention Casey saying that maybe one of the reasons she won't bring Caylee home is cause she is a Spiteful b@$%h

An earlier poster asked who said "lee knows what he did" ...I remember that, and it was LE, can't remember exactly who. But maybe what Lee did is not the computer wipe out, but getting and providing non traceable Go phones for all the A family. If KC's phone was given to Jose once KC was back in jail, could that have been how the message was relayed to Dominic of where th body was? Dominic and Jose could have communicated over that line, or better yet, that is one of the serveral phones Dominic had and was using when he was searching the woods.

In my opinion it is VERY far fetched to believe it was complete coincidence that Dominic searched where she ended up being found.

Poor Jesse Grund, wow, talk about throw a guy under the bus. In her diabolical mind maybe she was trying to set up Jesse, it could of been her master plan, or a new version of the plan when she realized the Zanny thing wasn't going to fly.

How nutty is it that the family is now saying they aren't sure if the remains found are Caylee, how odd that her shirt was found randomly with some other small childs skeletal remains close by.

I remember early early on, before people were totally convinced Caylee was no longer alive, Tim Miller of Equasearch said he would suspect the body would be found, most likely in a 3 mile radius of the A home, and he was right.

Lee seems like the typical over acheiver, always trying to please, if he is needed to act as detective, he's there, with his notepad. If he wants a car, he's there to pay it off and be responsible. KC has him just as manipulated as the rest of the family


I'm sure at this point the entire family is fatigued by all the info and facts and stories and people, keeping it straight, and answering questions this late in the game must be hard, especially for george, things are started to all meld together I think for them.

OK one depo left to go, Cindy's, I saved the best for last.
 
  • #123
So, I am reading LA thinks JG lied about the circumstances of meeting TL? Lee, just because you are ignorant does not make JG a liar.
JG absolutely told police he met TL at the pool party, he figured KC brought him down to meet TL to try to make him jealous (and he was probably right).
These people are so far out of bounds as far as JG goes, it's amazing. That is something that I hope they put right back in the A's face at trial, that JG is pure as the driven snow when it comes to Caylee's murder.
For all of the motives LA claims JG had, maybe he should have asked himself about his sister's motives: being rid of her child so she could go be a harlot is much more probable, given what ACTUAL evidence we have seen.

Jess volunteered to take a Polygraph. How many of the Anthonys have done that?
 
  • #124
Of the three depositions this is the first I can't make it through.....Lee can find the longest,most tedious way of answering a simple question, as well as liberally peppering it with a million "you knows" , "likes" and "whatevers". I think he's a creep and disingenuous to boot. But Ms. Drane Burdick is my new hero! Loved her example of "idiocracy" (sp?) Hah!


Oh really? I didn't care for it at all.

And- personal feelings aside- it was VERY inappropriate.

As an employee of the state, you are NOT to go around sounding off about your personal political opinions while you're representing the state. There can be severe consequences for failing at this. Hate to see Ms. DB setting herself up for such a reprimand (or at the very least criticism of her professionalism) when she's done such an excellent job with this case overall.

In fact, the more I think about it... I don't think it'd be overstating things to say that if the wrong people heard about this and decided to run with it, she could get yanked off the case.

Hopefully not. But it was a very foolish, reckless thing to say.
 
  • #125
Things I noticed:

Lee didn't mention Casey saying that maybe one of the reasons she won't bring Caylee home is cause she is a Spiteful b@$%h

An earlier poster asked who said "lee knows what he did" ...I remember that, and it was LE, can't remember exactly who. But maybe what Lee did is not the computer wipe out, but getting and providing non traceable Go phones for all the A family. If KC's phone was given to Jose once KC was back in jail, could that have been how the message was relayed to Dominic of where th body was? Dominic and Jose could have communicated over that line, or better yet, that is one of the serveral phones Dominic had and was using when he was searching the woods.

In my opinion it is VERY far fetched to believe it was complete coincidence that Dominic searched where she ended up being found.

Poor Jesse Grund, wow, talk about throw a guy under the bus. In her diabolical mind maybe she was trying to set up Jesse, it could of been her master plan, or a new version of the plan when she realized the Zanny thing wasn't going to fly.

How nutty is it that the family is now saying they aren't sure if the remains found are Caylee, how odd that her shirt was found randomly with some other small childs skeletal remains close by.

I remember early early on, before people were totally convinced Caylee was no longer alive, Tim Miller of Equasearch said he would suspect the body would be found, most likely in a 3 mile radius of the A home, and he was right.

Lee seems like the typical over acheiver, always trying to please, if he is needed to act as detective, he's there, with his notepad. If he wants a car, he's there to pay it off and be responsible. KC has him just as manipulated as the rest of the family


I'm sure at this point the entire family is fatigued by all the info and facts and stories and people, keeping it straight, and answering questions this late in the game must be hard, especially for george, things are started to all meld together I think for them.

OK one depo left to go, Cindy's, I saved the best for last.

Since the A's have no ability to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable conclusions, I think they would say that the Bad Guy (Jesse??) wanted them to THINK Caylee was dead so they would stop looking for her, so they dumped the remains of another child (perhaps the results of one of RG's religious rituals as imagined by CA??) near Casey's house after using Jesse's spare key (never really accounted for, because Casey said she retrieved it from Jesse and gave it to Zanny, but if Zanny IS Jesse, then...) to obtain a few things from the house to plant nearby to make it look like Caylee.
 
  • #126
On page 310 and page 348 LA talks about a binder that KC kept track of discovery and wrote things in and that she would bring it back and forth to JB's office while out on bail. LA had the binder and put it in a box which after a few months he returned to his parents house and left it in the garage thinking it would be turned in to JB. Is it possible that it was not and when LE came in with the search warrant on December 11th that LE found that binder. Could that be where the list of things that KC turned over to JB came from and maybe whatever was sealed in the envelope was also in the binder? The list that was identified as being KC's writing, would that not be considered work product and therefore JB would not have had to turn it over to the SA.

I was under the impression that any notes kept by witnesses were subject to discovery. Maybe that's why George's (or was it Lee's) notebooks got "lost".
 
  • #127
I thought that Lee's repeated laughter may have been a result of nervousness. Some people laugh inappropriately when stressed, some may clear their throat, etc.
 
  • #128
Does anyone remember back when all this started, Lee asked ...Is this like the last time? Or something close to those words. Has anyone ever asked Lee in any interview what he meant by that? I just can't seem to get that comment by LA out of my head. What happened 'last time'?
 
  • #129
I thought that Lee's repeated laughter may have been a result of nervousness. Some people laugh inappropriately when stressed, some may clear their throat, etc.


See, I interpret it as a desire to ingratiate himself with his interrogators. Nervousness could be one cause for this, I guess. Personally, I think it's a sales tactic.

Still, I do feel for LA. He has to chose between trying to preserve his family (as the As have doubtless framed it) vs. adhering to society's laws. Not an easy decision for most people at any age. I pity him from the bottom of my heart.
 
  • #130
Does anyone remember back when all this started, Lee asked ...Is this like the last time? Or something close to those words. Has anyone ever asked Lee in any interview what he meant by that? I just can't seem to get that comment by LA out of my head. What happened 'last time'?

Paintr,

I don't think we heard anymore about this comment Lee said to KC. I was also curious about it. At this point,I don't think it matters what it was about,because it seems if it was anything showing KC in a negative light,he probably wouldn't give an accurate explanation,or just talk circles around it.
 
  • #131
I was under the impression that any notes kept by witnesses were subject to discovery. Maybe that's why George's (or was it Lee's) notebooks got "lost".
I bet all of their "notebooks" are lost by now.
 
  • #132
Paintr,

I don't think we heard anymore about this comment Lee said to KC. I was also curious about it. At this point,I don't think it matters what it was about,because it seems if it was anything showing KC in a negative light,he probably wouldn't give an accurate explanation,or just talk circles around it.

Probably! lol But I wish that someone had investigated this. To go from lying and cheque stealing to murder is a big step. Just wondering if there were other steps in between that we havn't heard about yet. To imitate CA...What did you do, KC?
 
  • #133
It is utterly amazing. The Anthonys hang on Casey's every word hoping she will reveal something or send them some kind of word-maze clue.

But Lee outright asks Casey if Jesse is Zanny ~ she laughs at the absurdity of the thought and says no. And they don't believe her.

This reminds me of the jail house visit where CA is speaking in a sweet voice to KC but KC is figidting with herself and CA asked if KC is trying to protect the family from someone and CA is pratically shoving that scenario down KC's throat but KC barely pays attention.

It seems even if KC outright came out and said "I killed Caylee" the A's would say "Oh honey but who had the gun to your head JG?...right it was him right??Yes."

who knows maybe KC did try to tell them the truth about what happened but maybe they tol dher it was none of their business and she should keep it to herself.

IMO.
 
  • #134
Ok, here are some observations and questions that I have. (Advanced warning: this post turned in to a novel.)

Observations/thoughts:

The dead squirrel story
I think it's interesting and perhaps telling that Casey's (virtually certainly fabricated) explanation about the smell in the car had to do with animal decomposition. She didn't have to give an explanation that had to do with dead anything; she could have said garbage or skunk spray or old food or even rotting leaves or vegetation caught under the hood or under the car. (Or she could have said she had no idea! This would have been much better for implying that SODDI.) She's probably thinking that she needs to come up with something that seems like a good approximation of what she knows the origin of the smell is, so that it's believable. So the fact that she explains the smell with something that intuitively seems similar to the smell of human decomposition tells us a lot.
(Same goes for the "OMG, I hit an animal and it's plastered on my car" SMS.)

Jose laughing
The fact that JB laughs it up about the Manley guy and Juliet L. makes it pretty clear that he thinks that those people or their existence is a load of crap. And that he isn't afraid to have this opinion be on the record. So, the fact that KC's attorney feels this way means that he isn't worried about KC coming off as obviously lying. Maybe that says something about the case they're planning to make.

Lee in denial
To me, Lee generally seems pretty smart and resourceful, and somewhat more level headed than the other family members. Thus, I think that the following snippets are really interesting:

(I bolded the relevant parts)

(p.350)
Lee: ...She was telling me about a new tip that came in, which was a psychic tip or something like that and she said, you know: It's right over here off of Element -- or, excuse me, Hidden Oaks Elementary and Dominic already checked it out. And I was, like: What do you mean, Dominic already checked it out? Well, you know, he went out there and he walked it and, you know, whatever else. And I'm going: Why the hell would you guys be following up on that? That's not Caylee being alive. Like, that one never made sense to me, so I just was, like, that's stupid.
Q Was that whole conversation before the remains of a small child were found there?
A Yes.
Q So definitely before December 11th?
A Yeah. We had it in the kitchen, but I don't remember when. It was -- I was put off from the conversation really because it was, like, why would you even waste your time on that sort of a tip when that's --
Q Looking for a deceased Caylee.
(p 351)
A Exactly. That's not where we -- that's not where we are. Like, that -- it made no sense to me. I was I was -- I think I was probably really pissed.
Q Right.
A I mean, from what I can remember, it was just like, it was so absurd to me....​

and

(p. 329-331)
Q From listening to you, would this be a fair statement: That your actions and reasoning from the beginning of this case, July 15th --
A Um-hum.
Q -- to today, all start from the premise and the presumption that your sister did not kill Caylee?
A That is 100 percent correct; yes.
Q Absolutely.
A Yes. Absolutely.
Q Your -- you have not attempted to investigate anything other than facts that would support that conclusion; is that correct?
A Obviously I've -- I've tried to investigate the best I can every part of the case, but I haven't had anything that has led me down that road. Maybe is that an answer?
Q Well, I guess --
A Do you know what I mean?
Q Let me rephrase it better than that.
A Okay.
Q Even your slim belief that you hold that Caylee is still alive --
A Yes.
Q -- is only supported by the presumption that she must be; otherwise, Caylee [sic] would tell us the complete truth.
MR. BAEZ: Casey.
MR. LUKA: You mean Casey,
BY MR. ASHTON:
Q Casey. I'm sorry. I apologize. Isn't that true?
A Right. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, and that, along with, you know, that I -- I can't verify it myself, a hunch feeling. I mean, I had that feeling that day. This wasn't a new feeling that I had all of a sudden. I mean, I had the feeling that day. So, I mean, it just -- it was a combination.​

So basically, generally, and on the surface, Lee might seem to be gathering information in a reasonable way and operating rationally and in a clear-headed and somewhat organized manner. However, it seems to me that these two above snippets completely undermine what he has determined, researched, and what he believes as a result. He's obviously biased, and has said as much. (Although, the line of questioning in the second snippet wasn't followed with regard to Casey being involved in, say, Caylee's accidental death in KC's presence or something, like drowning or choking, I don't think. So maybe we can't say that Lee denies that KC had anything to so with it?)

Questions that I have:

Myspace deletion
Do we know who deleted the myspace stuff between July 3rd and July 15th? We know that TL and KC had the password. Seems feasible that TL did it once he heard what was going on. Or that KC did after she learned that her family was looking for her and Cayee. I feel like there should be hard evidence out there of this kind of thing, whether on MySpace's servers or on any of the relevant people's computers.

Gas cans & shed break-in
Why didn't KC use the keys in the garage to open the shed when she "borrowed" the gas/gas-cans? Lee says they're there for the family to use. (p. 374) (And maybe CA and GA said the same thing -- I don't remember). Did she maybe want to set up TL as somebody who would break into a shed?

Bat-phone rationale
Lee did not mention a fear that they were being bugged or monitored as part of the rationale for using the bat phones, whereas GA and/or CA definitely did. Was Lee holding this back, or did he just not realize that that's what his parents thought?

Seedy friends
Is there other evidence of Amy and the others' involvement w/ heroin and other drug use, than that Lee claimed that DC claimed he found some info?

Lee Denial
Why doesn't Lee even acknowledge or volunteer that it is possible that there was an honest-to-goodness accident with Caylee, and KC is too embarrassed or scared to be truthful? Even if he thinks she couldn't have harmed Caylee intentionally, why is accidental drowning or even backing over her in the car so hard to imagine? Lee agrees that KC is known to lie to avoid getting in trouble or being judged, so why would this be any different?

Blanchard Park story origin
What's the deal? Given Lee's account, I think there might be some issue with the Blanchard Park story and the inconsistency regarding who heard it first and from whom. I think in the parent depos, the line of questioning implied that the lawyers were trying to establish that KC used the story after hearing about it as a possible explanation from somebody else. I thought that KC told Lee first, but Lee says that other people heard it from KC before he did. I'll check the inconsistencies thread for that.

Lastly, this is funny:

(p. 281)
[Lee is recounting the Blanchard Park story.]
Q So she's giving you this -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. So you're sitting on a bench. They're sitting on a bench.
A Well, she -- right exactly.
Q And this five-six, five-seven, a hundred pound good-looking girl --
A Um-hum.
Q -- grabs -- holds
A Holds down Casey, five whatever she is, a hundred pounds. Right. Exactly.
Q Holds Casey down and says --
A A couple of good-looking girls holding each other's arms. Yeah. [Laughing].​

Thanks for reading, if anyone has gotten this far! :)
 
  • #135
Ok, here are some observations and questions that I have. (Advanced warning: this post turned in to a novel.)

Observations/thoughts:

The dead squirrel story
I think it's interesting and perhaps telling that Casey's (virtually certainly fabricated) explanation about the smell in the car had to do with animal decomposition. She didn't have to give an explanation that had to do with dead anything; she could have said garbage or skunk spray or old food or even rotting leaves or vegetation caught under the hood or under the car. (Or she could have said she had no idea! This would have been much better for implying that SODDI.) She's probably thinking that she needs to come up with something that seems like a good approximation of what she knows the origin of the smell is, so that it's believable. So the fact that she explains the smell with something that intuitively seems similar to the smell of human decomposition tells us a lot.
(Same goes for the "OMG, I hit an animal and it's plastered on my car" SMS.)
:)

Snipped here....I have heard different things about whether or not a decomposed human smells like decomposed animal-but if they do smell similarly, then it would make sense that she said this, because, to me, dead animals smell a lot different than trash, or composted debris, or a skunk....death smell is peculiar and unique. Maybe that's why she used this excuse-Now, if a human body smells differently than a dead animal, we're back to wondering why she used the squirrel cover.
I gotta get back to the rest of your post :)
 
  • #136
Ok, here are some observations and questions that I have. (Advanced warning: this post turned in to a novel.)


Jose laughing
The fact that JB laughs it up about the Manley guy and Juliet L. makes it pretty clear that he thinks that those people or their existence is a load of crap. And that he isn't afraid to have this opinion be on the record. So, the fact that KC's attorney feels this way means that he isn't worried about KC coming off as obviously lying. Maybe that says something about the case they're planning to make.

Lee in denial
To me, Lee generally seems pretty smart and resourceful, and somewhat more level headed than the other family members. Thus, I think that the following snippets are really interesting:

(I bolded the relevant parts)

(p.350)
Lee: ...She was telling me about a new tip that came in, which was a psychic tip or something like that and she said, you know: It's right over here off of Element -- or, excuse me, Hidden Oaks Elementary and Dominic already checked it out. And I was, like: What do you mean, Dominic already checked it out? Well, you know, he went out there and he walked it and, you know, whatever else. And I'm going: Why the hell would you guys be following up on that? That's not Caylee being alive. Like, that one never made sense to me, so I just was, like, that's stupid.
Q Was that whole conversation before the remains of a small child were found there?
A Yes.
Q So definitely before December 11th?
A Yeah. We had it in the kitchen, but I don't remember when. It was -- I was put off from the conversation really because it was, like, why would you even waste your time on that sort of a tip when that's --
Q Looking for a deceased Caylee.
(p 351)
A Exactly. That's not where we -- that's not where we are. Like, that -- it made no sense to me. I was I was -- I think I was probably really pissed.
Q Right.
A I mean, from what I can remember, it was just like, it was so absurd to me....​

and

(p. 329-331)
Q From listening to you, would this be a fair statement: That your actions and reasoning from the beginning of this case, July 15th --
A Um-hum.
Q -- to today, all start from the premise and the presumption that your sister did not kill Caylee?
A That is 100 percent correct; yes.
Q Absolutely.
A Yes. Absolutely.
Q Your -- you have not attempted to investigate anything other than facts that would support that conclusion; is that correct?
A Obviously I've -- I've tried to investigate the best I can every part of the case, but I haven't had anything that has led me down that road. Maybe is that an answer?
Q Well, I guess --
A Do you know what I mean?
Q Let me rephrase it better than that.
A Okay.
Q Even your slim belief that you hold that Caylee is still alive --
A Yes.
Q -- is only supported by the presumption that she must be; otherwise, Caylee [sic] would tell us the complete truth.
MR. BAEZ: Casey.
MR. LUKA: You mean Casey,
BY MR. ASHTON:
Q Casey. I'm sorry. I apologize. Isn't that true?
A Right. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, and that, along with, you know, that I -- I can't verify it myself, a hunch feeling. I mean, I had that feeling that day. This wasn't a new feeling that I had all of a sudden. I mean, I had the feeling that day. So, I mean, it just -- it was a combination.​

So basically, generally, and on the surface, Lee might seem to be gathering information in a reasonable way and operating rationally and in a clear-headed and somewhat organized manner. However, it seems to me that these two above snippets completely undermine what he has determined, researched, and what he believes as a result. He's obviously biased, and has said as much. (Although, the line of questioning in the second snippet wasn't followed with regard to Casey being involved in, say, Caylee's accidental death in KC's presence or something, like drowning or choking, I don't think. So maybe we can't say that Lee denies that KC had anything to so with it?)


Thanks for reading, if anyone has gotten this far! :)

Snipped again! Thank you for posting these things-

Jose is a moron-I would not usually use the ad hominem atack, but he has left me no choice. As soon as I read that he laughed, I thought to myself, you dumbarse, it was your client that said that silly carp.


And LA.....His family sat him down and had a whole discussion, I am sure, about how important it was for them to try to see things from KC's side, because they are all she has left, blah blah blah. LA thought this was truly their wishes and acted accordingly in his assumptions. When he found out about DC at Suburban, he felt a little betrayed, they lied to him about thiswhole notion of trying to be on KC's side.

The comment about the two chicks on a bench is typical LA weird, straight from Tattooin (sp.).
 
  • #137
Snipped here....I have heard different things about whether or not a decomposed human smells like decomposed animal-but if they do smell similarly, then it would make sense that she said this, because, to me, dead animals smell a lot different than trash, or composted debris, or a skunk....death smell is peculiar and unique. Maybe that's why she used this excuse-Now, if a human body smells differently than a dead animal, we're back to wondering why she used the squirrel cover.
I gotta get back to the rest of your post :)
A dead body smells like nothing else. Period.
 
  • #138
I live on a ranch and I can vouch for the fact that dead animal carcasses smell entirely different from decaying trash. Even decaying chicken scraps in the trash smell differently than decaying animal bodies.

I, fortunately, have never smelled the scent of decaying human body and hope that I never do. But, I can imagine that it is unlike any other odor.
 
  • #139
Yeah, in terms of the squirrel thing... If we assume that the squirrel explanation is 100% false, then we can ask why she picked that as an explanation for the smell. I think my point ended up being somewhat convoluted, but what I was trying to say can be expressed in this fictional account of Casey's internal monologue.

Casey's head:
"Well crap, Lee is asking why the car smells. And it stinks because there was a dead body in it. But I'm not gonna tell him that, ha. Ok, I'll tell him something that seems believable. Ok, what's stinky like a 2.6 days of dead-body-stank but doesn't put me in jail? Hmm, how about rotting engine-heated squirrels? I bet that's similar. Yeah, that's the ticket."

So my proposition is that you would only make up something like the squirrel story if you were trying to cover up the fact that it was something else rotting and of animal origin. Thus, clearly she was trying to cover up that it was something else rotting and of animal origin.

Or, maybe it's just that trash or rotting foliage or food or skunk wouldn't have been remotely believable. And, actually, maybe one could make the case that if she were trying to cover up that she had a body in there, she wouldn't have said anything remotely similar to a dead body, because that would be too obvious, and she's not that dumb.

Or, maybe I'm over thinking this. :)
 
  • #140
Yeah, in terms of the squirrel thing... If we assume that the squirrel explanation is 100% false, then we can ask why she picked that as an explanation for the smell. I think my point ended up being somewhat convoluted, but what I was trying to say can be expressed in this fictional account of Casey's internal monologue.

Casey's head:
"Well crap, Lee is asking why the car smells. And it stinks because there was a dead body in it. But I'm not gonna tell him that, ha. Ok, I'll tell him something that seems believable. Ok, what's stinky like a 2.6 days of dead-body-stank but doesn't put me in jail? Hmm, how about rotting engine-heated squirrels? I bet that's similar. Yeah, that's the ticket."

So my proposition is that you would only make up something like the squirrel story if you were trying to cover up the fact that it was something else rotting and of animal origin. Thus, clearly she was trying to cover up that it was something else rotting and of animal origin.

Or, maybe it's just that trash or rotting foliage or food or skunk wouldn't have been remotely believable. And, actually, maybe one could make the case that if she were trying to cover up that she had a body in there, she wouldn't have said anything remotely similar to a dead body, because that would be too obvious, and she's not that dumb.

Or, maybe I'm over thinking this. :)


Gotcha, and you're probably right-She thought animals decomposing were all apples to apples when it comes to our perceptions.

ETA-And trash could not have been believable if it smelled the way they described it!
 

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