2009.07.30 Document Release

[itsreenw]

Cindy must have meant a straightening iron, though, because LE swabbed the plug end for, I guess, DNA.

As vain as KC is, I'm sure she would have had a flat iron, blow dryer and curling iron and just about every other beauty product they sell at Target.

And...isn't it odd that LE didn't notice an inflatable bed during their searches?

And why would KC carry the inflatable bed in her trunk instead of leaving it at ZG's house? The A's don't think their lies out thoroughly.

 

[christee]

I'm right there with you about the Lie Detector tests!! Can't imagine not doing it, either. I didn't mean to imply that you were naive at all!!! (No sorries anymore ~ it has just helped make our family become better people, I think. . . as all experiences do if you overcome their challenges.)

Oh I'm still very naive abt some things-lol. I hope I don't ever lose some of that!
And I'm all for overcoming challenges

 

[kaRN]

Ok here's the reason for no polygraph from the As....Not admissible in court. Why do it if it truely proves nothing? I can link you to a page with a quote by the FBI that states that the polygraph is no more than a co-ersion tactic by LE to get people to talk. There is no scientific proof of it's ability to determine a lie. All is proves is that a person is the nervous type or cold like a fish...that is all. Want the link? Also the fact that others lined up to take on proves nothing conclusive, other than thier butts weren't on the line.

If I was in my early 20's and was being asked by LE to be interviewed and polygraphed in a missing, likely murdered child case, it really wouldn't occur to me my butt wasn't on the line. What did Amy for example have to gain in assisting the investigation in any way possible? A good feeling she'd helped a kid she'd met 2-3 times? What did Lee, George or Cindy have to lose by cooperating?? What they feared they'd lose was more valuable than what they thought they'd gain by assisting. Very telling that IMO.

 

[Curious Me]

Yes, people noticed. That's why she has been referred to as a narcissist.
Here is part of page I read on narcissism just to try to figure CA out.
Boy did this stand out to me
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it
This is from http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

Thank You. Good Narcissism article.

also of note: Narcissists are impulsive. They undo themselves by behavior that seems oddly stupid for people as intelligent as they are. Somehow, they don't consider the probable consequences of their actions. It's not clear to me whether they just expect to get away with doing anything they feel like at the moment or whether this impulsiveness is essentially a cognitive shortcoming deriving from the static psychic state with its distorted perception of time.

 

[kaRN]

It is disgusting to think KC even through that away with Caylee........no love or bonding at all! ...........I bet CA kept it and KC threw it away to hurt CA more.........IMO

This is a woman who told her Mother she was going away to bond with her toddler and hours later the child was dead though. A perfect Mother, in her own Mothers eyes.
My understanding is Cindy gave the umbilical stump to the defense for DNA testing but I bet you're right it was Cindy who saved it. She gives the precious umbilical stump to the defense, and the wrong hairbrush to LE. She hadn't bonded either IMO.

 

[DotsEyes]

Brown bag containing umbilical cord;
Hair scrunchie;
Bib;
Tylenol drops;
Toy fork;
Toy banana;
Toy pear,
Toy pickles,
Toy kitten bootie;
Toy butterfly bootie;
Wood puzzle pieces;
"Ten Little Monkeys" book;
Medicine cup;
"School Mouse" book;
Yellow toy bottle;
"Bedtime______" book;
Comb;
Pillow case;
Pink hat;
Bed sheet;
Spiderman toothbrush;

USPS Mailing envelope with hair samples of KC, CA and Caylee;
Four page report "Independant Forensic DNA Testing and Technology".

Why would any of the A family provide these items to JB? It is such an odd assortment of items that, except the last 2 on the list and the umbilibal cord, I have to think that the items came from a single source, i.e., things taken out of the Pontiac before LE arrived or the contents of a duffle bag; plastic bin, something that held all of these items at one time.

 

[ThoughtElf]

BBM:
Yet everyone LOVES it when they contain documents that make the case AGAINST Casey!

I am not sure what this means?

I don't LOVE any documents that provide further details about the horrors Caylee suffered in her last minutes. I don't like reading them at all. Not a bit. I'd like to think that I am not alone in sharing that personal feeling.

I do, on the other hand, read any and all documents that are relevant and pertinent in regards to obtaining some real justice for her unnecessary & untimely demise.

I have a lot of trouble comprehending the need for Caylee's death. In fact, I don't understand any reason for it, at all.

I know we're going to respectfully disagree here on some points, but even if I stretch my imagination way, way, way out there - I still can't fathom how a Mother like the Anthony's perceive Casey to be could allow this to happen?

If Casey was the loving, attentive Mother that we'd be swayed to believe in if we listened solely to Cindy, then this tragedy would not have occurred.

Emotionalism and fervor can't refute that singular fact.

Even if you believe in your soul that SODDI, then it stands to reason that SOD couldn't have done it had the primary care-giver/Mother of the Year been in control of situations she placed Caylee in.

Even if your heart, guts & soul believe that Casey is innocent of Caylee's murder, then it defies any parenting or common-sense logic to defend Casey WITHOUT qualms or doubts -> as to Casey's culpability for placing Caylee in any situation whereby SOD might have murdered Caylee.

It is my firm opinion that even if the SODDI defense somehow squeaks in, that people who love Caylee will still gather their senses and recognize Casey's role and guilt in not protecting Caylee.

(I'll add that this is not what I believe, but point out that even if you believe SODDI, there is just no discernible way that SODDI could have pulled this crime off without negligence on Casey's part.)

We can have a healthy, respectful debate & discussion on varying degrees of guilt, but there isn't a shred of evidence that Casey is lacking in guilt regardless of the accidental, SODDI, or Casey's direct involvement theories.

It is any person's right to believe what degree of guilt Casey bears, but to deny altogether that Casey bears any guilt at all is disturbing.

I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands of posts, and I respect those that still harbour hope that Caylee died by accident.

Yet, I still ponder ... if accidental or SODDI, then is there not still culpability on Casey's part?

There is simply no way to excuse Casey's failure to report the circumstances without Casey bearing some responsibility for guilt.

In any perceived degree.

In any regard.

I respect alternate opinions - I do. I just can't comprehend any scenario in which Casey has no culpability at all.

I do question the perception that any of the posters here on WS 'love' anything about this case.

What's to love?

Again, forgive me for being utterly obtuse, but I need specific direction. I just don't 'get' that anyone here on WS 'loves' anything about the unnecessary loss of Caylee's life.

Sorry, but I have entertained many thoughts, ideas and theories, trying so hard to give the benefit of the doubt, and not a single one points towards Casey lacking in guilt to some degree.

I think, where some posts fail utterly is in the presumption that Casey is entirely innocent.

She absolutely is not - no matter which theory you subscribe to as a personal preference, Casey bears responsibility for not reporting Caylee's death.

Period.

 

[kaRN]

:clap: Wow Potatohead!!! Well said.

 

[christee]

I am not sure what this means?

I don't LOVE any documents that provide further details about the horrors Caylee suffered in her last minutes. I don't like reading them at all. Not a bit. I'd like to think that I am not alone in sharing that personal feeling.

I do, on the other hand, read any and all documents that are relevant and pertinent in regards to obtaining some real justice for her unnecessary & untimely demise.

I have a lot of trouble comprehending the need for Caylee's death. In fact, I don't understand any reason for it, at all.

I know we're going to respectfully disagree here on some points, but even if I stretch my imagination way, way, way out there - I still can't fathom how a Mother like the Anthony's percieve Casey to be could allow this to happen?

If Casey was the loving, attentive Mother that we'd be swayed to believe in if we listened solely to Cindy, then this tragedy would not have occurred.

Emotionalism and fervor can't refute that singular fact.

Even if you believe in your soul that SODDI, then it stands to reason that SOD couldn't have done it had the primary care-giver/Mother of the Year been in control of situations she placed Caylee in.

Even if your heart, guts & soul believe that Casey is innocent of Caylee's murder, then it defies any parenting or common-sense logic to defend Casey WITHOUT qualms or doubts -> as to Casey's culpability for placing Caylee in any situation whereby SOD might have murdered Caylee.

It is my firm opinion that even if the SODDI defense somehow squeaks in, that people who love Caylee will still gather their senses and recognize Casey's role and guilt in not protecting Caylee.

(I'll add that this is not what I believe, but point out that even if you believe SODDI, there is just no discernible way that SODDI could have pulled this crime off without negligence on Casey's part.)

We can have a healthy, respectful debate & discussion on varying degrees of guilt, but there isn't a shred of evidence that Casey is lacking in guilt regardless of the accidental, SODDI, or Casey's direct involvement theories.

It is any person's right to believe what degree of guilt Casey bears, but to deny altogether that Casey bears any guilt at all is disturbing.

I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands of posts, and I respect those that still harbour hope that Caylee died by accident.

Yet, I still ponder ... if accidental or SODDI, then is there not still culpability on Casey's part?

There is simply no way to excuse Casey's failure to report the circumstances without Casey bearing some responsibility for guilt.

In any perceived degree.

In any regard.

I respect alternate opinions - I do. I just can't comprehend any scenario in which Casey has no culpability at all.

I do question the perception that any of the posters here on WS 'love' anything about this case.

What's to love?

Again, forgive me for being utterly obtuse, but I need specific direction. I just don't 'get' that anyone here on WS 'loves' anything about the unnecessary loss of Caylee's life.

Sorry, but I have entertained many thoughts, ideas and theories, trying so hard to give the benefit of the doubt, and not a single one points towards Casey lacking in guilt to some degree.

I think, where some posts fail utterly is in the presumption that Casey is entirely innocent.

She absolutely is not - no matter which theory you subscribe to as a personal preference, Casey bears responsibility for not reporting Caylee's death.

Period.

Once again::bow:

and also::bananapowerslide:

(now back to lurking)

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

All of the Zanny stories seemed to be tied to physical possessions. It is my speculation that Casey realized at some point it was easier to say these items came from Zanny.... that way she doesn't have to remember the details of the stories she tells and it explains how she has frivilous items like dvd's and hair straighteners but cannot contribute to the household.

Remarkable really that KC can remeber every little tidbit about Zanny, the matress, the videos, the hair straightner, footballs, other children in her care and their parents name but by Gawd KC can't for her own life remember Zanny's phone number.....

 

[essies]

Remarkable really that KC can remeber every little tidbit about Zanny, the matress, the videos, the hair straightner, footballs, other children in her care and their parents name but by Gawd KC can't for her own life remember Zanny's phone number.....

ITA But, not only Zanni's phone number! Jeff and Julliette's phone number can't be found and they are supposedly the only 2 people KC told about Zanni stealing Caylee! How convenient!!
I guess it just goes to show that you can't trust those imaginary people to be there for ya when you need them!!:bang:

 

[kaRN]

I just feel bad for Jesse. The fact that he wasn't cut out to be a cop has absolutely nothing to do with Caylee and I don't see where Baez hopes to go with this. It's a shame that anyone who wants to can see every last thing that Jesse did wrong as a recruit just because of what KC did.

The prosecution could make note that Jesse's life was on the straight and narrow until he met KC and that his anger issues coincided with him dealing with a psychopath in his personal life. I can't imagine she let him study much.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I just feel bad for Jesse. The fact that he wasn't cut out to be a cop has absolutely nothing to do with Caylee and I don't see where Baez hopes to go with this. It's a shame that anyone who wants to can see every last thing that Jesse did wrong as a recruit just because of what KC did.

ITA But, not only Zanni's phone number! Jeff and Julliette's phone number can't be found and they are supposedly the only 2 people KC told about Zanni stealing Caylee! How convenient!!
I guess it just goes to show that you can't trust those imaginary people to be there for ya when you need them!!:bang:

phhhffft. You can trust me. I am your own personal WS imaginary friend ...

and I will be there.

Yes, I will.

You just call out my name,
and you know where ever I am,
I'll come running,
To see you again.
(Oh yeah Baby!)

You've got a friend.

*toddles off to hit the pillows humming 'Winter, Spring, Summer or Fa-all...' *

 

[shgrbkr]

Was just trying to read the FBI interview with Cindy. At the beginning, it's dated April 21, 2009, but obviously that's incorrect. I couldn't read it. Just more standard CA drivel purporting KC's lies as truth and accusing LE of not listening to KC or paying much attention to "leads." Decided not to make a huge waste of my time.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Thank You. Good Narcissism article.

also of note: Narcissists are impulsive. They undo themselves by behavior that seems oddly stupid for people as intelligent as they are. Somehow, they don't consider the probable consequences of their actions. It's not clear to me whether they just expect to get away with doing anything they feel like at the moment or whether this impulsiveness is essentially a cognitive shortcoming deriving from the static psychic state with its distorted perception of time.

Great insight. That's something to think about....

 

[DotsEyes]

So did the items come from the Ponitac trunk before LE arrived?

 

[Intermezzo]

She knows ZG doesn't exist. She's just trying for another throw at a bus grille.

Wonder who she was trying very hard to convice more, at that time, that the nanny existed LE or herself?...IMO herself.
I have to go back and search but did the fingerprint report come back from that evidence...the stuff Casey said belonged to Zanny or was used by Zanny while she took care of Caylee?

 

[lisalei321]

Was just trying to read the FBI interview with Cindy. At the beginning, it's dated April 21, 2009, but obviously that's incorrect. I couldn't read it. Just more standard CA drivel purporting KC's lies as truth and accusing LE of not listening to KC or paying much attention to "leads." Decided not to make a huge waste of my time.

I caught that to, but I thought it was the date the tape was transcribed, not the date of the interview (must wake up my sister, this is what she used to do for a living, she won't be happy )

 

[MissJames]

Keeping my eye on the ball here.....wouldn't a motion for blocking the docs need to have been filed? No one filed such a motion. The only things that were blocked were the video of KC's reaction on Dec. 11 and the autopsy photos. I think if JG and his family had something to hide, there would have been a motion pertaining to these docs. And I fail to see how these docs are relevant at all to the As camp trying to pin this on JG. All these docs show is that he was not cut out for the force and has some maturity issues. I'm sure there would be a long line of young men who would be in the same boat. But the man offered to raise a child not his own after being duped! Quite a guy. Goes to character, IMO. And, as has been stated numerous times here.....the guy took a polygraph. Did the As? BTW, I love the letter from the FBI to Lamarr......what we all knew for many months, but to see it in stark black and white! That all those other people questioned that the As and KC had in their sights took polygraphs. And then......voila. The three who refused were the A family. Priceless!

ITA
If the records on Jessie had been blocked the defense and those very few A supporters would have been screaming coverup and there was something to hide.Sadly ,a lot of people are paying the price for KC's actions,as well as the A's.
The Grunds have shown grief for the loss of Caylee and compassion for the A's. They have ALL proven they have nothing to hide.They don't have lawyers going to the media suggesting they may need immunity for ANYTHING.
The A's should be worried.Everything they did to help KC can be used by the defense to show THEY may have been involved in Caylee's murder,to show reasonable doubt.And again,if the defense tries to throw others,like Jessie ,under the bus ,I believe it will backfire and harden the jury towards the defense.

 

[MissJames]

Yes, but there are various motions to surpress. Why not Jesse's records? SA didn't bother to try to surpress? Defense sure doesn't want to. SO there you go.

Jessie had nothing to hide.