2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO

[Oakley]

Evidence from KC's trunk pointing to something dead:

1. Decomposition smell
2. the hair
3. "coffin flies"
4. adipocere-like substance on toweling (consistent with human or pig decomposition.
5. The stain

There was NO meat found in the trash. Yet something that smelled ripe was drawing coffin flies. They had burrowed between the crevices of KC's trunk and were all over the substance on the paper toweling. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

Casey's shoes or pants could have transferred the plant pollen from where Caylee's body was found to KC's car trunk. Too bad Cindy washed the pants.

More evidence is Cindy's excited utterance "I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car."

 

[TallyHo]

Could have been, however, I'm in Orlando too, and have had that # programmed into my cell for probably 10 years now, it's been around that long. And embarrassingly enough, I've dialed that number when I am trying to avoid a person (to look like I am on a call) or for like reasons. LOL, my secret is out! Casey could have been calling to check the weather, but it could have also been a benign call just like mine. The time and pings would probably help us figure out better. Also, it just tells you the current temp and generic weather conditions: "winter park weather, partly cloudy with a chance of rain, high of 95, low of 82" etc. Nothing detailed. So I would think that if she really wanted to know the weather forecast, she'd look online if she had access.

And honestly, it rains every darn day here in the summer, like has been said. So that leads me to believe even more that the call was just for some other random reason.

Does the number also give the correct time? We have a number like that where I live and I usually call it to see the exact time. I have a watch (Rolex, no kidding) that always runs slow, so I used to check that fairly frequently. Lately, though, the time is displayed on my cellphone, so I haven't called in a while. Just a thought.

 

[sarah7855]

Does the number also give the correct time? We have a number like that where I live and I usually call it to see the exact time. I have a watch (Rolex, no kidding) that always runs slow, so I used to check that fairly frequently. Lately, though, the time is displayed on my cellphone, so I haven't called in a while. Just a thought.

yes, it gives the correct time.

The number is (407) 646-3131 for anyone that wants to call, by the way

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hello WS people. How many of us have had children in cars who have left morsels of food wedged between seats, fallen under seats or probably wiped their little hands all over the upholstery with whatever and everything else. Have you ever left a dirty diaper in the way back by mistake overnight? Have you ever had a dog puke in your car, cleaned it up as best you could but with no scientific knowledge about how to do it best but just as good as you could? Have you ever stepped in something and gotten into your car and driven home? Have you ever left wet towels in a plastic tub in the rear of your van and said "yuck" the next day when you retrieved them? Let's see, have you ever left - anything - in your car?

My scientific experiment: Having had all of the above happen in my car over the course of my lifetime I have never, ever gone to my car, opened the door and almost wretched because of something I left there. (dirty diaper came close but tossed it out, left the car doors open for a little bit and everything was fine) I have never, ever felt the need to exclaim that my car smells as if a dead body had been there. My dad is past 80 years old, I asked him "Dad, has your car ever smelled like a dead body? Fishing trips, trips with guys, trips with your son, trips when you forgot your underwear (joke), trips with us kids when we were little - well you get the picture. He said, "no, can't say that it has." Thanks Dad. Oh and Dad, what might cause your car to smell as if there had been a dead body there? Answer "A dead body." Thanks Dad.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wild pigs are rampant in Florida....Maybe she ran over one in the road and put it in her trunk for dinner!

C'mon, squirrel would not feed her, TL AND his roomates!

You mean we're allowed to eat road kill? I never knew that.:crazy:

 

[Brini]

yes, it gives the correct time.

The number is (407) 646-3131 for anyone that wants to call, by the way

Thanks! I have a radio-controlled watch, but ya never know with badgets. Dunno if we have a time number, but I'll find out.

 

[Brini]

Hello WS people. How many of us have had children in cars who have left morsels of food wedged between seats, fallen under seats or probably wiped their little hands all over the upholstery with whatever and everything else. Have you ever left a dirty diaper in the way back by mistake overnight? Have you ever had a dog puke in your car, cleaned it up as best you could but with no scientific knowledge about how to do it best but just as good as you could? Have you ever stepped in something and gotten into your car and driven home? Have you ever left wet towels in a plastic tub in the rear of your van and said "yuck" the next day when you retrieved them? Let's see, have you ever left - anything - in your car?

My scientific experiment: Having had all of the above happen in my car over the course of my lifetime I have never, ever gone to my car, opened the door and almost wretched because of something I left there. (dirty diaper came close but tossed it out, left the car doors open for a little bit and everything was fine) I have never, ever felt the need to exclaim that my car smells as if a dead body had been there. My dad is past 80 years old, I asked him "Dad, has your car ever smelled like a dead body? Fishing trips, trips with guys, trips with your son, trips when you forgot your underwear (joke), trips with us kids when we were little - well you get the picture. He said, "no, can't say that it has." Thanks Dad. Oh and Dad, what might cause your car to smell as if there had been a dead body there? Answer "A dead body." Thanks Dad.

Yep! Nothing, nothing, nothing smells like a dead body.

You know it the first time you smell in, and you never, ever forget it.

 

[Brini]

The correspondence regarding the chloroform levels found in the trunk were of interest to me.

When the information was first released that it had been found in high concentration, I was of the belief that KC had used it on Caylee in an attempt to subdue her long enough to accomplish the deed.

Then we had Simon B's statement about the flies and maggots seen upon opening the trunk lid at the tow yard.

Learning that chloroform would act as an insecticide, it didn't make sense that KC had used it for purposes of subduing Caylee, as those high levels would have killed the insects.

The trash bag containing the paper towels with the VFA's (grave wax) adhering to them, was removed and placed in the tow yard dumpster by Simon B.

Dr. Vass questioning the detective's about KC's access to chloroform, or FAMILY access, leads me to believe that it was not used until AFTER the Pontiac was returned to the Anthony garage on July 15th.

I'm wondering if the gas chromatic spectrometry is/was able to discern a variation of compounds in the chloroform that would indicate an industrial/professional grade versus homemade, internet instructed, readily available to the lay person ingredients, type of chloroform?

Cindy COULD have had access to the industrial/professional grade through her work.

I think the chloroform was used to clean the trunk by GA or CA.

Nurses so not have access to chloroform. It's not kept in any medical facility.

It's been illegal for any medical purpose for years, maybe over a decade.

Also, CA wasn't working with patients or facilities, directly.

 

[Brini]

respectfully snipped by me.
Exactly, I was confused when I read the email from Vass as to why he would ask that question for the very reason you stated above. Unless he knows something we don't, I suppose.

Because he doesn't work directly in the medical field?

In his job, he would, I think, have access to all sorts of chemicals that wouldn't be available to medical workers.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yep! Nothing, nothing, nothing smells like a dead body.

You know it the first time you smell in, and you never, ever forget it.

I never want to - sorry to those of you who have. The husband told me that there is nothing he can suggest to compare it to and then he told me to change the subject - he doesn't like thinking about it.

 

[Brini]

On a side note, Dr. Vass highlighted one of the more obvious boo boo's in KC's plan-Why did she not take her to a more remote area?

Yes, I know KC is lazy, but per Google Earth, there is a giant swamp approx. 25 mi. east of her house!

I am glad for one that she was so stupid, cause Caylee was able to be found.

There is also an "alligator lake" just a few miles north of the As.

 

[Brini]

I think they eat any flesh.

But would anyone really believe KC was driving around with a dead animal in her trunk right around the same time her daughter ummmm...disappeared.

According to the study on the substance on the paper towel: "the fatty acid ratios detected on the paper towels are quite consistent with those identified in human and pig decomposition studies.http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

That same report says something on the paper towels was attracting fly pupae (maggots).

jmo



jmo

I thought the testing posted in an earlier dump excluded pig?

 

[Brini]

Wild pigs are rampant in Florida....Maybe she ran over one in the road and put it in her trunk for dinner!

C'mon, squirrel would not feed her, TL AND his roomates!

Sure they would, JJ!

Remember, the squirrels were massively obese from that 2.6 day pizza party they had in KC's car!;-)

 

[marspiter]

Nurses so not have access to chloroform. It's not kept in any medical facility.

It's been illegal for any medical purpose for years, maybe over a decade.

Also, CA wasn't working with patients or facilities, directly.

Yeah other then making it herself the chloroform has always been one of those details in this case that baffles me. How did she get it, what was it used for, and a slew of other questions.

Science labs, industrial chemical holdings would have it. It's used to make R-22 which was a vehicle AC refrigerant which is now illegal to use or will be next year or something. My dad still had a case in his garage the pack rat he was.

It could be used as a cleaning agent but why would you use something as dangerous and hard to get as chloroform when you could use something else. The concentrations were I believe higher then an accidental mixing of cleaning products.

In terms of incapacitating someone there are easier ways especially with children....

Sorry to go off on the chloroform tangent it's just one of the few details that truly has me baffled.

 

[Mendara]

More evidence is Cindy's excited utterance "I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car."

I hope they play that in court.

 

[Mendara]

Yep! Nothing, nothing, nothing smells like a dead body.

You know it the first time you smell in, and you never, ever forget it.

She gave anothe example CA said have you ever opened your refridgerater and said "Smells like something died in there" in passing as a general thought to yourself?

Too bad for CA she didn't say that exact phrase in a matter of fact way - she was out of breath - choking with fear and pratically screaming for help when she mentioned the smell in the car to 911.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I never want to - sorry to those of you who have. The husband told me that there is nothing he can suggest to compare it to and then he told me to change the subject - he doesn't like thinking about it.

Mine said the same thing. Said its the worst stink you can imagine ("a thousand times worse than dog ****"). He said the same thing, once you smell it, you never forget it. He said he hasn't been around that many, maybe 50 or so. Hm: Peg 0, Hubby 50

 

[Oakley]

I hope they play that in court.

I would be surprised if they don't.

 

[sarah7855]

I don't think Cindy's job as a nurse for the nursing home patients gave her access to chloroform. Hospitals haven't used it for decades. She wouldn't have known in advance there was going to be maggots in a car in her garage. So it wouldn't have just been there.

respectfully snipped by me.
Exactly, I was confused when I read the email from Vass as to why he would ask that question for the very reason you stated above. Unless he knows something we don't, I suppose.

Because he doesn't work directly in the medical field?

In his job, he would, I think, have access to all sorts of chemicals that wouldn't be available to medical workers.

Yes, Vass would, but we were talking about Cindy having access to it per Vass's email to CSI Vincent. I had quoted Jolynna's post (all above)

 

[sarah7855]

I would be surprised it they don't.

I think it's going to be one of the main things in court, after all, it is what "started" this whole thing. That's the first thing many of us heard about this case.