2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO

[Intermezzo]

When this was breaking the A's were talking about the kidnapper taking Caylee up into the mountains. I had thought, oh oh!, if she is dumped a few hundred miles away then what are the chances of ever finding Caylee, before the pings and we knew KC never left Orlando.

I know KC said that Caylee was 'close to home' but this close? I am glad KC is not the brightest . . . or did not care. She wanted Caylee found to send a message to CA.

O/T I think she was so defiant she was feeding off that defiance to retaliate against her family and pushback on everyone LE. The more you seek the truth the more defiant KC becomes and that feeds her big time. I think she ran out of defiance and the gravity of the situ just slapped her in the face.

BBM
I agree with your O/T post.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
snipped

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:48 PM
To: Melich, Yuri; Vincent, Michael
Subject: prelim report #2

Gentlemen, please find attached the second preliminary report – we are still waiting on some standards which are on backorder and VFA analyses to complete the report. Please read over the report carefully. I would like to schedule a phone conference with you and (if possible) a prosecutor early next week to determine what else needs to be done assuming this will be used in court (for example – should we be sampling a dead squirrel, are our procedures sufficiently thorough to hold up in court, discuss standards, Daubert issues, etc. etc.). I hope you understand why this has taken so long once you read the report. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
Even the good Doc heard about Casey's squirrel story :liar:,
I guess if a Pizza test was conducted to prove it doesn't smell like decomp maybe a Squirrel test was done as well

Yeah I'm just waiting to hear what nonsensical story they come up with over this info. Casey had a dead pig in her car for some reason that she 'forgot about'? Maybe the pizza had pork sausage on it and it attracted the coffin flies?It's sure to get more interesting...

 

[Just Jayla]

Yeah I'm just waiting to hear what nonsensical story they come up with over this info. Casey had a dead pig in her car for some reason that she 'forgot about'? Maybe the pizza had pork sausage on it and it attracted the coffin flies?It's sure to get more interesting...

Wild pigs are rampant in Florida....Maybe she ran over one in the road and put it in her trunk for dinner!

C'mon, squirrel would not feed her, TL AND his roomates!

 

[mitzi]

snipped

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Vincent, Michael; Melich, Yuri
Subject:

Yuri/Mike, Good news and bad – bad first – our GC/MS is down and I can’t run the last few samples until we fix it so the report will be late – I am REALLY sorry about that. Will try and get it out to you Monday or Tues – I will try and come in this weekend and work on the system. Good news – the LIBS analysis on the carpet sample is showing positive results (inorganic indicators of decomp are present (calcium, magnesium, etc.) – nothing in controls. Finally I was hoping to get your permission to do a chemical extract on the piece of carpet you sent us looking for VFAs. If positive, this will give us odor, inorganic and organic markers for decomp. If we are really, really lucky we might be able to use the data to get a PMI. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
The carpet tested positive for decomp in 1 analysis test? Am I reading this correctly..
What does "nothing in controls" mean? (I think I know but am 100%)

Bold mine.

I'm pretty sure that "controls" is similar car trunk carpet that wasn't in KC's own car, but was that of a similar Pontiac. In other words, carpet that was in a "control vehicle"...to compare it to the carpet in KC's vehicle. :blowkiss: And I bet that's what you are thinking too!

 

[christee]

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

Mike, that is again your call about the debris. We can do it, but it will take a while. I am in California early Oct, in England mid- Nov, Washington DC end of Nov and have to testify on another case in Dec. How about you go ahead and send the trash debris and not the brown liq. If the liquid was in a closed container, it couldn’t have contributed to the odor anyway. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.


Thx for the mini doc dump JWG!

the above BBM
What is the brown liquid that Vass mentions to MV?

 

[TakeNote]

Evidence from KC's trunk pointing to something dead:

1. Decomposition smell
2. the hair
3. "coffin flies"
4. adipocere-like substance on toweling (consistent with human or pig decomposition.
5. The stain

There was NO meat found in the trash. Yet something that smelled ripe was drawing coffin flies. They had burrowed between the crevices of KC's trunk and were all over the substance on the paper toweling. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

Casey's shoes or pants could have transferred the plant pollen from where Caylee's body was found to KC's car trunk. Too bad Cindy washed the pants.

i agree with you.....i just wonder why Dr. Lee said that there was some kind of meat in the trunk....i think he said ham.....i will try and find the link...i believe it was on NG.....and i know this subject has been talked about already....and Dr. Lee was blowing smoke......

......i can hear what the defense is going to throw out there.....

 

[magic-cat]

Or the pants. Didn't Cindy or LE say in the FBI interview that the pants were originally found in the trunk?

Yes. Cindy said the pants were in the trunk. We just recently traced this one down.

Collapsible bin and boots in trunk, from CA's first accounts, think she changed that later to having found the boots behind the driver's seat.

The pants were in the trunk according to Cindy.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

Mike, that is again your call about the debris. We can do it, but it will take a while. I am in California early Oct, in England mid- Nov, Washington DC end of Nov and have to testify on another case in Dec. How about you go ahead and send the trash debris and not the brown liq. If the liquid was in a closed container, it couldn’t have contributed to the odor anyway. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.


Thx for the mini doc dump JWG!

the above BBM
What is the brown liquid that Vass mentions to MV?

Brown liquid found in the auto? This is the first we have heard of a brown liquid...What on earth could that have been?

Also to JWG-thank you so much! We knew these emails HAD been released, and several of us were told by various media outlets that all the emails has been uploaded, but we went over everything they all put out with a VERY fine tooth comb and these were missing. The best we could come up with was a screen shot of one of the emails, where Yuri mentions the "dead mans ring" from a video report but they did NOT ever upload these and I am so happy that you discovered them...however you did discover them...how did you discover them? :waitasec:

 

[TakeNote]

was there any bottle with brown looking liquid shown in any of the photos of the things that were in the trunk?

i was thinking like old ketchup, steak sauce, BBQ sauce.....or any container holding oil....ect...?

anyone with a quick link to the pics?

 

[zoomom]

Thank You, JWG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pink Panther]

Thank You, JWG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes...Thanks so much JWG!

 

[camcneishg]

Would like to add my thanks also!! Good work JWG!!

 

[Openmyeyes]

Thanks JWG. Reading these emails made me feel more confident that KC will never be roaming the streets again.

 

[JWG]

snipped

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Vincent, Michael; Melich, Yuri
Subject:

Yuri/Mike, Good news and bad – bad first – our GC/MS is down and I can’t run the last few samples until we fix it so the report will be late – I am REALLY sorry about that. Will try and get it out to you Monday or Tues – I will try and come in this weekend and work on the system. Good news – the LIBS analysis on the carpet sample is showing positive results (inorganic indicators of decomp are present (calcium, magnesium, etc.) – nothing in controls. Finally I was hoping to get your permission to do a chemical extract on the piece of carpet you sent us looking for VFAs. If positive, this will give us odor, inorganic and organic markers for decomp. If we are really, really lucky we might be able to use the data to get a PMI. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
The carpet tested positive for decomp in 1 analysis test? Am I reading this correctly..
What does "nothing in controls" mean? (I think I know but am 100%)

Yes, in the final report produced by Dr. Vass (included in a doc dump late this spring) he indicated that there were some inorganic chemicals in the carpet consistent with VFA. The source, IIRC, could be either human or pig.

By "control" he is referring to the carpet sample taken from another Pontiac trunk they recovered from a junkyard. He found nothing in the control sample, which is a good thing.

 

[scorpion1110]

also want to add my thanks to JWG, great job!!!

 

[JWG]

From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
snipped

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:48 PM
To: Melich, Yuri; Vincent, Michael
Subject: prelim report #2

Gentlemen, please find attached the second preliminary report – we are still waiting on some standards which are on backorder and VFA analyses to complete the report. Please read over the report carefully. I would like to schedule a phone conference with you and (if possible) a prosecutor early next week to determine what else needs to be done assuming this will be used in court (for example – should we be sampling a dead squirrel, are our procedures sufficiently thorough to hold up in court, discuss standards, Daubert issues, etc. etc.). I hope you understand why this has taken so long once you read the report. Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D."

BBM
Even the good Doc heard about Casey's squirrel story :liar:,
I guess if a Pizza test was conducted to prove it doesn't smell like decomp maybe a Squirrel test was done as well

In Dr. Vass's final report he mentions that they not only tested a squirrel (a recent victim of a hit and run) but they also tested the blanket from a case in Montana that wrapped a dead child that was kept in a trunk for a lengthy period of time.

Net result:

• Dead squirrel inconsistent with Pontiac odor.
• Montana blanket consistent with Pontiac odor.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Brown liquid found in the auto? This is the first we have heard of a brown liquid...What on earth could that have been?

snipped for brevity

I'm guessing the brown liquid is tobacco juice. Didn't they find an empty chewing tobacco tin in the garbage? I believe it was an empty Copenhagen can. Ya gotta spit that stuff someplace...

 

[ClockWatcher]

The correspondence regarding the chloroform levels found in the trunk were of interest to me.

When the information was first released that it had been found in high concentration, I was of the belief that KC had used it on Caylee in an attempt to subdue her long enough to accomplish the deed.

Then we had Simon B's statement about the flies and maggots seen upon opening the trunk lid at the tow yard.

Learning that chloroform would act as an insecticide, it didn't make sense that KC had used it for purposes of subduing Caylee, as those high levels would have killed the insects.

The trash bag containing the paper towels with the VFA's (grave wax) adhering to them, was removed and placed in the tow yard dumpster by Simon B.

Dr. Vass questioning the detective's about KC's access to chloroform, or FAMILY access, leads me to believe that it was not used until AFTER the Pontiac was returned to the Anthony garage on July 15th.

I'm wondering if the gas chromatic spectrometry is/was able to discern a variation of compounds in the chloroform that would indicate an industrial/professional grade versus homemade, internet instructed, readily available to the lay person ingredients, type of chloroform?

Cindy COULD have had access to the industrial/professional grade through her work.

I think the chloroform was used to clean the trunk by GA or CA.

 

[JWG]

snipped for brevity

I'm guessing the brown liquid is tobacco juice. Didn't they find an empty chewing tobacco tin in the garbage? Ya gotta spit that stuff someplace...

Interesting, if not unappetizing hunch. :yuck:

Looking back through the evidence sheets, I believe it was this item:

13. Empty "Crystal Light" bottle 16oz with brown liquid proof purchase num # 430093911.

 

[Intermezzo]

Interesting, if not unappetizing hunch. :yuck:

Looking back through the evidence sheets, I believe it was this item:

13. Empty "Crystal Light" bottle 16oz with brown liquid proof purchase num # 430093911.

Could it be Crystal Light Iced Tea? It's brown.
I have a container of that in my pantry.

 

[Intermezzo]

Bold mine.

I'm pretty sure that "controls" is similar car trunk carpet that wasn't in KC's own car, but was that of a similar Pontiac. In other words, carpet that was in a "control vehicle"...to compare it to the carpet in KC's vehicle. :blowkiss: And I bet that's what you are thinking too!

Yes, it was, I just wasn't certain,

Thanks :blowkiss: