2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[Friday]

The Body Farm says there was. Dr. Haskell said in December when he examined the bug remains in the car trunk, the car still smelled. The formerly thriving colony of "coffin flies" lived on something.

There was nothing in the car trunk or in the trash to have drawn the coffin flies to the trunk in droves except for whatever stained the carpet, was smelling up the trunk and the adipocere substance wiped up on the napkins.

jmo

Thanks, Jolynna, I know you're right, but do we have anything in the official lab reports stating that decomp fluids were actually found on a surface of the interior of the trunk--ie., on the carpet, in the wheel wheel, etc. (Not just on the napkins in the bag). I've been hoping there would be even more than odor and bugs to indicate decomp in the trunk.

 

[autumnlover]

After this latest doc-dump, I highly doubt that the State will ever let this case plea out. The evidence is damning and IMO she will be convicted hands down. They will leave it to the jury to decide whether she gets death or spends the rest of her not-so-beautiful life in prison.

ITA. Plus, KC will never, ever plea out, even if it's the Alford plea. I believe she is 100% convinced that she will get off because she's smarter than everyone else. In fact, as they're pushing the potassium chloride into her arm, her last thought will probably be that she outsmarted everyone, IMO.

 

[snow_walker]

BBM

We do have enough to put the scene together.There will be no questions about how bugs clear up the timeline and what was done with Caylee's body when Haskell is finished testifying.

Caylee going into a freezer or Caylee immediately being underwater after death is inconsistent with the evidence. Coffin flies couldn't get to Caylee's body and leave generations of cases and parts of themselves behind if Caylee was in a freezer or underwater. The generations of the thriving "coffin fly" colony they found in the trunk, on the paper towels, at suburban on during Caylee's autopsy, points to Caylee's body being in the trunk, bloating and liquifying fast right after death. Which is what happens when a body is wrapped in plastic and in an airtight, hot, moist environment (a trashbag in a car trunk in Florida in the summer).

Decomposition wasn't slowed down. Caylee very quickly bloated, jelled and liquified. If you google Brookey West you can read how that same environment did the same kind of thing to West's mother. (I've linked to Haskell's involvement in the West case many times on WS.) Mark Furhman writes about how it happened to Caylee in his book, The Murder Business.

If Caylee had been in a freezer before she was finally disposed of on Suburban, a lot more blow flies would have been attracted to her body on Suburban because the body would have been fresh. Instead coffin flies swarmed because they prefer putrefied and goopier remains. (I'm sorry there is no nice way to put it.)_

According to the report, Haskell says the insect remains and insect cases they did find at the Suburban site and on Caylee during the autopsy is consistent with Caylee being left at Suburban from June to early July and sometime after that being submerged by the rainy season.

jmo

I don't argue that the coffin flies show the body in that trunk was in an advanced stage of decomp.. but let us say the body was in the freezer for a day, then placed in the trunk, still frozen.. it would have thawed within the day, and the body would have decomped within a few days, just would make it a couple of days later that everything happened with the flies.. the limit on time would have to be fixed by the date the car was abandoned.. it isn't a big issue. Just saying I don't think it is possible to set the time of the body being placed in the trunk right down to the exact day or hour..the temps in a car trunk and the body being bagged as it was all add a certain amount of variability as well..
No matter, I agree on the essential correctness of 'body was placed in trunk before the blowflies got at it' as they would have had it been left out in an exposed place. And for sure she had removed the body before it was towed.

 

[Friday]

ITA. Plus, KC will never, ever plea out, even if it's the Alford plea. I believe she is 100% convinced that she will get off because she's smarter than everyone else. In fact, as they're pushing the potassium chloride into her arm, her last thought will probably be that she outsmarted everyone, IMO.

You're right--and KC's reason for feeling she "outsmarted everyone" will be because she never admitted a thing!

 

[momtective]

I assume an Alford plea must be like a "No Contest/Nolo Contendere" plea? It will be interesting to see if the Defense ultimately puts this much importance on the Forensic reports released to us this week.

However, just the thought of having to listen to CA squawking for years to come because KC took an Alford plea makes me feel like howling "Noooooo." I have 2 huge reasons for wanting this case to end--one is justice for Caylee, the other is to banish the A's into oblivion so that I don't have to see them or hear them anymore.

I've never felt such a violent aversion and animosity toward two people simply because of the way they conduct themselves. I mean, I know that whatever CA and GA say or do isn't going to mean a d@mned thing to the jury because they're the perp's parents, so why can't I just shrug the A's off? Why does the mere sight of them antagonize me to this degree? I will never understand it, but I'm certainly not alone in my reaction.

*Bold by me*
Not by a long shot Friday...I absolutely loathe the woman. For me, she is a billion times worse than nails on a chalk board...the mere sight of the woman makes my blood boil. I don't even know her and I absolutely cannot stand her!:banghead:

 

[magic-cat]

GA threw the garbage from the car into a dumpster at the impound lot. LE went back and retrieved it.

Just for the record and the sake of the sanctity of the facts, it was the tow yard manager who tossed the bag in the dumpster not GA.

Wasn't this knife confiscated from the car? Someone correct me if I am wrong.......

No. The knife was removed from the car by Cindy, washed and returned to her drawer. It was later taken into evidence, but not until it had been cleaned by Cindy.

 

[Jolynna]

Thanks, Jolynna, I know you're right, but do we have anything in the official lab reports stating that decomp fluids were actually found on a surface of the interior of the trunk--ie., on the carpet, in the wheel wheel, etc. (Not just on the napkins in the bag). I've been hoping there would be even more than odor and bugs to indicate decomp in the trunk.

Not to my knowledge.

The bugs and the Body Farm testimony might be it.

 

[ZsaZsa]

*Bold by me*
Not by a long shot Friday...I absolutely loathe the woman. For me, she is a billion times worse than nails on a chalk board...the mere sight of the woman makes my blood boil. I don't even know her and I absolutely cannot stand her!:banghead:

Count me in too. I despise them so much I need a new word for despise that is even more virulent.

 

[Hot Dogs]

The report says that there were large numbers of fly larvae (maggots), pupae and some adults found in the trunk as well as the trash bag.

Finding large numbers of these things in the trunk suggests that it was not vacuumed or even thoroughly cleaned after it was picked up from the tow yard.

Did George really try to clean the trunk at all? If so, he did a horrible job because there were at least 12 human head hairs as well as large numbers of maggots/pupae.

 

[kpalma715]

(I am sure this was discussed, but wanted to ask ) I have a question about the coffin flies, maggots, etc. Since they were feeding off Caylee's body When LE examines the bugs would the bugs also have Caylee's DNA since they were eating her? This could be another link to Caylee being in the trunk of the car, along with everything else.

 

[Harmony 2]

The report says that there were large numbers of fly larvae (maggots), pupae and some adults found in the trunk as well as the trash bag.

Finding large numbers of these things in the trunk suggests that it was not vacuumed or even thoroughly cleaned after it was picked up from the tow yard.

Did George really try to clean the trunk at all? If so, he did a horrible job because there were at least 12 human head hairs as well as large numbers of maggots/pupae.

Thank ya! Thank ya! Thank ya!!
Superb reasoning! Moreover, I have asked for proof of cleaning chemicals in the trunk and was never provided with a link. Besides the admission by Cindy of spraying Febreeze and washing clothes I have never run across any results indicating the trunk had been cleaned. Also the air sample results did not have the components that are in bleach. If anyone has a link I would love to read it. TIA

 

[RR0004]

The report says that there were large numbers of fly larvae (maggots), pupae and some adults found in the trunk as well as the trash bag.

Finding large numbers of these things in the trunk suggests that it was not vacuumed or even thoroughly cleaned after it was picked up from the tow yard.

Did George really try to clean the trunk at all? If so, he did a horrible job because there were at least 12 human head hairs as well as large numbers of maggots/pupae.

Well the hairs may not have been sucked up by the vacuum...and gosh knows where those bugs could have been hiding.

ETA: and we do know the trunk was opened and closed...and yet the flies were still there.

 

[RR0004]

Thank ya! Thank ya! Thank ya!!
Superb reasoning! Moreover, I have asked for proof of cleaning chemicals in the trunk and was never provided with a link. Besides the admission by Cindy of spraying Febreeze and washing clothes I have never run across any results indicating the trunk had been cleaned. If anyone has a link I would love to read it. TIA

No...we don't know for sure...just surmising.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I assume an Alford plea must be like a "No Contest/Nolo Contendere" plea? It will be interesting to see if the Defense ultimately puts this much importance on the Forensic reports released to us this week.

However, just the thought of having to listen to CA squawking for years to come because KC took an Alford plea makes me feel like howling "Noooooo." I have 2 huge reasons for wanting this case to end--one is justice for Caylee, the other is to banish the A's into oblivion so that I don't have to see them or hear them anymore.

I've never felt such a violent aversion and animosity toward two people simply because of the way they conduct themselves. I mean, I know that whatever CA and GA say or do isn't going to mean a d@mned thing to the jury because they're the perp's parents, so why can't I just shrug the A's off? Why does the mere sight of them antagonize me to this degree? I will never understand it, but I'm certainly not alone in my reaction.

BBM I'm right there with you, Friday! I've thought about this a lot. And I think the reason we have this reaction is b/c the As run counter to everything that 99.999% of people would do in this situation. Their actions, words, and behavior during this debacle seem so foreign to us, b/c it is foreign to us. Who wouldn't be horrified and terrified for their daughter upon finding out what they discovered? That much is certain. After that though........they took a very wrong turn and did and said things that we would not do, even for our child. I will never forget the mother of a convicted murderer who committed his crime of shooting 3 people near my home..........She kicked him to the curb. She was asked if she would stand by him during the trial and support him.......she said absolutely not. That was it for her. She could not reconcile what he did in cold blood. And yet, the victims were unknown to her. G&C lost Caylee at the hands of her own mother! And yet, they still give unwavering support. It goes to character, IMO. Sorry for the ramble.....

 

[Jolynna]

There was nothing else in the trunk to attract them. No squirrel remains "plastered to the frame" , no pizza, no food at all -just the empty boxes and packets.

And lets not forget about the hair with the decomp root band. It was either Caylee or the perps and in the perps own words " Im not dead!"

There is zero evidence to prove that there was anything else for those coffin flies to feed off in that car. So your 100% correct - its a SLAM DUNK alright. :dance:

ETA - sorry for the broken quote. Dont know how to fix it.

Here's a list of what was in the trash;http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

Pictures of the trash from K's trunk; pictures of Tony's trash http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html

There is nothing there that could have leaked into the carpet to the point that KC's car still stunk when Dr. Haskell went through it in December.

moo

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I have a question. TIA for anyone who can answer it for me. All the samples sent to the bug guy were samples from the trash bag in the trunk, at least all the samples I could find. Were there any samples sent to the bug guy that were actually from the trunk itself? If so, does anyone have the page number on the report? The reason I am asking is that I find it odd that all the samples were from the white trash bag.

 

[lizzysf]

I have a question. TIA for anyone who can answer it for me. All the samples sent to the bug guy were samples from the trash bag in the trunk, at least all the samples I could find. Were there any samples sent to the bug guy that were actually from the trunk itself? If so, does anyone have the page number on the report? The reason I am asking is that I find it odd that all the samples were from the white trash bag.

The paper towels used to clean a suspected decomp spill were in the trashbag and the bugs made their way there.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

The paper towels used to clean a suspected decomp spill were in the trashbag and the bugs made their way there.

OK, I understand that the paper towels would be attractive to the bugs, but is it really possible for a mere paper towel to clean a decomp spill so well that a gnat size bug would not find something attractive where the decomp spill originally was?
It doesn't seem likely to me that that would be the case. I would think there would be insects in the trunk itself had there been a decomp spill. Of course I could be wrong, thats why I am bringing it up. Just doesnt seem like paper towels could really do a good enough job of cleaning up the decomp in my opinion.

 

[snow_walker]

If you think of the decomp spill as being similar to bacon grease, which apparently it is, then you have wonder that anything at all was accomplished by trying to wipe it up with paper towels. If I were trying to clean bacon grease off of carpet, I would have to start somewhere, perhaps with paper towels, but I wouldn't expect that to do a good enough job, after that, it would be time to break out the heavy duty chemicals to try to clean things up.
BUT I think it was a bit too much for KC, trying to clean her little childs decomp fluids up, the flies and maggots in there, the horrible smell.. just trying to clean that trunk would be enough to give most of us nightmares for the rest of our lives.

 

[static]

Did anyone see the video footage of KC buying the huge bulk of paper towels at Target?

I truly hope they can link the paper towels to the ones in the trash and the rolls that she purchased. I will try to find the link. Another poster had put the link up...it is on YOUTUBE,8 minutes of raw footage,.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGxKL8xM1YI"]YouTube- Casey Anthony Surveillance - Report and 8 Mins Raw Footage[/ame]