2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[3doglady]

No, the picture is facing the right way--you can tell because in the original LE series of photos, those photos are preceded by the ones showing the trunk liner with the lights on and the blue forensic light shining on that spot. Then they turned the lights off and took pictures of just what the forensic light showed. But the spotlight is still in the same position.

My confusion was the stain was photographed on both sides of the carpet. The stain showed up more on the underside so I thought JWG used that photo. That would mean she was laying on her right (I think?). It would be like laying under the car looking up at her.

 

[LambChop]

We don't all agree on how she was lying lol. If you go with the "butt in the air" hip=knee interpretation, her head could be tilted the other direction entirely (resting on the opposing cheek).

I wonder if dd2 would let me paint her face in something bright and then have her lay down and make a cheek print for me... gaaah that's morbid.

I don't think the picture shows butt in the air. Infants often sleep that way but Caylee was almost three and to me the picture looks as if she is on her left side. jmo

 

[CarrieSis]

*nods* It's just out there as a theory on position. Some toddlers sleep that way too. My 5 year old still sleeps that way (granted, she is autistic and Caylee was not, but even my neurotypical DS slept that way till he was over 6). JMO.

I wish I had some impressions to compare this to. Teh google, it does nothing.

 

[AZlawyer]

Taken from the top side... she was laying on her left side in the trunk with her back against the back seats. Does that make sense? :waitasec:

KC is right handed so if she lifted/hoisted bags into the trunk by the handles, likely she would have grabbed the handles in her right hand, supported the bottom of the bags if at all with her left, and Caylee would/might have ended up in the trunk with her head toward the passenger-side fenders and her back against the rear side of the back seat... IMO....

(ETA: and to weigh in a little late on this one, I think the letter AZ was seeing imprinted in the stain might have been the "G" in "Big", if the t-shirt shifted due to movement in the bags... FWIW...)

Based on the JWG/BJB outline, she would have been lying on her left side with her back against the outside of the trunk, not against the back seats.

I finally figured out that the "B" in TROUBLE would fit where I saw it lol.

Actually, if she has her left side of her face down, she would be facing passenger side of car so the tape would be seen in that picture from right edge to center, not left to center... kwim?

I agree, unless the decomp fluid filled in some of that space.

How does that explain her head facing the opposite way of the body?

It doesn't. I think we're misinterpreting the face stain.

My confusion was the stain was photographed on both sides of the carpet. The stain showed up more on the underside so I thought JWG used that photo. That would mean she was laying on her right (I think?). It would be like laying under the car looking up at her.

The stain on the underside was totally different from the stain on top--on the underside, there was no defined shape and the worst part of the stain was nowhere near where the stain on top would have been.

 

[3doglady]

Ok I found the photos JWG used. Sorry for the confusion. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/25097605/detail.html

 

[ynotdivein]

Based on the JWG/BJB outline, she would have been lying on her left side with her back against the outside of the trunk, not against the back seats.

Well, h*ll.

You're right--looking at the other pieces of the trunk liner, the part near the passenger seats splits down the center. :banghead: and :blushing:

But then the stain with the white ring seen in photos of the underside of the spare-tire cover? That we speculated came from seepage or cleaning fluids? That white ring was at the passenger-seat or rounded end of the spare tire cover...

(OK. I feel like AZ just told me there is no Santa Claus. I must sit quietly now and revisit Christmases past to figure out where the presents came from.)

 

[AZlawyer]

Well, h*ll.

You're right--looking at the other pieces of the trunk liner, the part near the passenger seats splits down the center. :banghead: and :blushing:

But then the stain with the white ring seen in photos of the underside of the spare-tire cover? That we speculated came from seepage or cleaning fluids? That white ring was at the passenger-seat or rounded end of the spare tire cover...

(OK. I feel like AZ just told me there is no Santa Claus. I must sit quietly now and revisit Christmases past to figure out where the presents came from.)

Yeah, I know. I am 100% convinced that the stain on the top is from Caylee, but what seeped through the spare tire cover on the other side of the trunk??

 

[CarrieSis]

Ok, I gotta play with the images a bit to post, but I talked dd2 into making some impressions for me with her face on our theraputty (green, medium resistance). I'm sick in the head, I know. I'll take an aisle seat on the plane ride to hell..

ok, so anyway the one that most resembled the images above wasn't what I expected, but I think it could be explained by the fact that the ALS is used obliquely and not straight on, so we don't get all the detail (ie if they turned it 180 and repeated we'd get "the other side").

That impression was "face down". Lips and so forth were spot on.

 

[3doglady]

Yeah, I know. I am 100% convinced that the stain on the top is from Caylee, but what seeped through the spare tire cover on the other side of the trunk??

I tend to think Ca used Hydrogen Peroxide. When I worked as a nurse we used it all the time to take blood out of clothing. It did not bleach the cloth but sometimes a white ring was left that could be washed out.

 

[RR0004]

What's in a stain

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/march/225319/

Yes it appears they didn't get to it on Friday... We were ready!

G-d bless you all for having the courage to look at the pics. I remember when the stain info was first released. For some reason I could look then...can't do it now...just too d@mn hard. Keep up the great work...truly. oxoxoxoxo

 

[ynotdivein]

AZ, middle picture in this early post from Eidetic is image of residual staining on bottom of spare tire cover which fits into the Sunfire with the rounded side near the passenger seats. Hence, my piffledness.

Here are your pictures, top and bottom of the wheel cover. I do see a stain, however, I can't make out a shape.
Just looks like a big stain that someone poured a cleaner of some sort directly on the stain to saturate it, I say this because I see a whiteish stain towards the edge of the original stain. There also appears to be some rust colored "markings" on the directions :waitasec:

I flipped the images to how the piece would have fit into the trunk liner

 

[AZlawyer]

AZ, middle picture in this early post from Eidetic is image of residual staining on bottom of spare tire cover which fits into the Sunfire with the rounded side near the passenger seats. Hence, my piffledness.

Yep, I agree the rounded side is near the passenger seats. The JWG/BJB image of Caylee is lying with the back toward the straight side, not the rounded side.

 

[pip]

My interpretation has been that she was lying on the left side of that hole with her head on the top/by backseat, and feet at end of the car/bottom.

If the trunk was divided into 4 quadrants with the hole being the center, her head would be top left quad, feet lower left quad, knees bent over to the center hole.

Not sure!

 

[3doglady]

Yep, I agree the rounded side is near the passenger seats. The JWG/BJB image of Caylee is lying with the back toward the straight side, not the rounded side.

So are you saying the stain with the white ring is something totally different (spilled liquid?) and at the other side of the trunk? Was it tested?

 

[ynotdivein]

Yep, I agree the rounded side is near the passenger seats. The JWG/BJB image of Caylee is lying with the back toward the straight side, not the rounded side.

OK I know you knew this was coming...

Then what explains the white-ringed stain on the bottom side of the round end of the spare cover?

:truce:

 

[3doglady]

OK I know you knew this was coming...

Then what explains the white-ringed stain on the bottom side of the round end of the spare cover?

:truce:

Spilled Chloroform?

 

[pip]

The image could be from Caylee wrapped in the blanket only first. Then if she put her in the bags and set them back in the trunk near the other spot they may have leaked more fluid and the adipocere? The plastic bags may have torn when she tried getting them into the laundry bag? Just a thought.
I firmly believe that if that really is an image of Caylee, then she wasn't in the plastic bags and the laundry bag yet, just the blanket. It is too perfect and clearly defined.

 

[3doglady]

IIRC Ca said in her deposition that there was a stain in the trunk when they purchased the car. It's possible she actually told the truth about something and it has nothing to do with Caylee. If so, CA probably tried to clean it when they purchased the car.

 

[AZlawyer]

So are you saying the stain with the white ring is something totally different (spilled liquid?) and at the other side of the trunk? Was it tested?

It wasn't tested. But it is definitely not where the stain on top is.

 

[Harmony 2]

Well, h*ll.

You're right--looking at the other pieces of the trunk liner, the part near the passenger seats splits down the center. :banghead: and :blushing:

But then the stain with the white ring seen in photos of the underside of the spare-tire cover? That we speculated came from seepage or cleaning fluids? That white ring was at the passenger-seat or rounded end of the spare tire cover...

(OK. I feel like AZ just told me there is no Santa Claus. I must sit quietly now and revisit Christmases past to figure out where the presents came from.)

Ynot, my friend, I am just as bumfuzzled as you. I have always imagined it the way you described... :waitasec: