2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[AZlawyer]

For those of you who are wondering if you see a little foot down at the bottom of the image kind of curved like it is scrunched against something, here is an image under special lighting of that exact spot on the carpet. Anyone else see toes?

 

[AZlawyer]

Wanna know the best news?

The missing cut out piece could be put back into the carpet sample and they could photograph again. The information (on the cutout piece) that we are missing on the upper right hand portion of the photo is somewhere within LE/Lab techs/SA's care/custody/control. Follow the chain of custody on both the large carpet liner and the missing portions and put them back together. Mystery solved. :great:

The enhanced photos we are looking at were taken before the piece was cut out of the carpet. The cut-out piece removed a large portion of the image.

 

[Frigga]

For those of you who are wondering if you see a little foot down at the bottom of the image kind of curved like it is scrunched against something, here is an image under special lighting of that exact spot on the carpet. Anyone else see toes?

Yes, I see toes on the bottom left of the red light photo. Is that what you mean?

 

[AZlawyer]

Yes, I see toes on the bottom left of the red light photo. Is that what you mean?

No, I see them at the bottom right--at the end of the oblong shape (foot).

 

[LCoastMom]

bringing the pic over to this page

what are all those little specks behind the measuring tape?

When scanning back and forth between these two images here's what I am seeing:

A gap between the upper arm bone and the chest - below the yellow line/pointer following the word Chest. (more visible in the image on the left)

A 2" gap in the upper arm bone - under the yellow Chest "pointer" (more visible in the image on the left) - another 2" gap below the Elbow (more visible in the close-up shots linked a few pages up thread).

I think I maybe seeing both lower arms "coming together" at the Elbow "pointer". With the detail coming from the hand closest to the carpet.

Having just done 6 to 8 diaper changes daily for 8 months - I know all the padding is now placed below and to the back - with the front covered by a wetness protective liner - explaining the lack of detail in that area.

Foot in the heel - toe position.

The trouble I'm having with KC doing this "in a rage" is the methodical cutting of 4+ pieces of duct tape. Calculated and cold. Heartless.

 

[mck16]

When scanning back and forth between these two images here's what I am seeing:

A gap between the upper arm bone and the chest - below the yellow line/pointer following the word Chest. (more visible in the image on the left)

A 2" gap in the upper arm bone - under the yellow Chest "pointer" (more visible in the image on the left) - another 2" gap below the Elbow (more visible in the close-up shots linked a few pages up thread).

I think I maybe seeing both lower arms "coming together" at the Elbow "pointer". With the detail coming from the hand closest to the carpet.

Having just done 6 to 8 diaper changes daily for 8 months - I know all the padding is now placed below and to the back - with the front covered by a wetness protective liner - explaining the lack of detail in that area.

Foot in the heel - toe position.

The trouble I'm having with KC doing this "in a rage" is the methodical cutting of 4+ pieces of duct tape. Calculated and cold. Heartless.

The image marked "Foot" looks way out of proportion to me. It looks to big to be her foot, and the position looks to far away from the body. It seems it would make her leg way too long. jmo

 

[AZlawyer]

The image marked "Foot" looks way out of proportion to me. It looks to big to be her foot, and the position looks to far away from the body. It seems it would make her leg way too long. jmo

The leg is exactly the right length. My post on this is #500.

 

[LCoastMom]

Temperatures in a car can reach 131 to 172 degrees in 80 to 100 degree weather when sitting in the sun. Temperatures in June in Orlando average around 91 as a high and 71 as a low. So you figure the temperature in the trunk even at 6pm at night was over 100 degrees. Small child are more sensitive to heatstroke than older children and adults so at 100 degrees a toddler would expire within a short period of time in a closed trunk. jmo

Orlando 6/16/08 ----- actual

Mean Temperature --- 81 °F
Max Temperature ---- 90 °F
Min Temperature ---- 73 °F


ww.wunderground.com/history/airport/KORL/2008/6/16/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

[Harmony 2]

The napkins/paper towels were found in the white trash bag. TL stated in his depo that KC had taken HIS car through the car wash before picking him up. She may have thought to do this because it possible KC may have tried to wash the trunk out at the car wash, maybe hosed it down. Still stinking she thought about masking the smell with the gas cans. The stain on the bag is the same size and shape as GA mentions in his statement that it looked like the size of a basketball. It appears the trash bag was on the stained portion of the trunk and transferred to the bag. jmo

I am probably the only one left on the internet that does not believe there was extensive cleaning of the trunk. Yuri testified there was dirt found in the trunk carpet and if cleaning or vacuuming took place then what accounts for the dirt being there?

"The smell I smelled was that of decomposition," Melich told the judge. He also testified that strands of hair similar to those of the young girl, as well as dirt, were found in the trunk.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,389642,00.html

timestamp 2:46
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwU6B--gSG4[/ame]

This is the submission for analysis on the dirt found in the trunk to forensics:
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...eports-car-trunk/1/lg/11208-11280_Page_05.htm

My theory is that Caylee lay deceased on the trunk carpet for 2.6 days (probably covered with the blanket) and then was bagged on the day Casey borrowed the shovel from Brian B. This could have also been when the adipocere was transferred to the paper towels. Remember there were no fibers from the trunk on the paper towels and also no (VFA) butyric acid, from the trunk liner, on the paper towels. Therefore, the adipocere came directly from handling a deceased Caylee.

I believe she bagged Caylee and the VFA transferred to the bottom of the bag in the process. She then carried Caylee bagged to the back yard and set her down several places trying to figure out where to dig or place her. I think this is when the decomp scent transferred to the ground accounting for the cadaver dogs hitting on several places in the back yard. We know she tried to dig behind the pool since LE found a disturbed indentation on the dirt there. When Casey saw how much work was involved in digging I think she brought the bag back to the trunk and transferred some dirt from the bottom of the bag to the trunk.

 

[AZlawyer]

The image marked "Foot" looks way out of proportion to me. It looks to big to be her foot, and the position looks to far away from the body. It seems it would make her leg way too long. jmo

The leg is exactly the right length. My post on this is #500.

Also, I think the image marked "foot" is really both feet--with the legs crossed at about mid-calf, the foot images overlap.

 

[wenwe4]

The enhanced photos we are looking at were taken before the piece was cut out of the carpet. The cut-out piece removed a large portion of the image.

Well crud . . . you just burst my bubble! I was holding out for so much hope . . . . :maddening:

 

[CarrieSis]

The position exactly mimicks how my 2 3/4 year old slept at the time - butt in the air, legs crossed, and well... she would self-soothe with her hand in the front of the diaper area. (Follow along, I don't want to say it outright.) The other hand was usually up near her face or cuddled around her doll.

Not explained still: why naked? And if sleeping, no explanation for duct tape unless I return to my original theory that she was duct-taped shortly after she was deceased to mimic a kidnapping and cover an accidental death/negligent death. (see: 1 Tree Hill episode, Zanny abduction lies, etc). However it's my understanding there is some science that proves she was taped pre-mortem. To fit my entire theory together with the trash bags etc would require it to be placed post-purge which is not "shortly after deceased".

I need to go revisit the threads on the duct tape. This section has gotten so huge though! Before I go digging, does anyone happen to know offhand where the report on how/why we know it was placed before death is?

Found: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html page 3

Still leaves me questions. "before decomposition" - before stage 1, or before stage 2, or (unknown parameter?). The body would still be intact to be duct taped before significant decomposition occured, but would it be intact enough at 2.6 days? 1 day? 6 hours? 2 hours? Unknown...

 

[wenwe4]

CarrieSis, I think the autopsy report from Dr. G might have addressed how the mandible was still intact due to the placement of the duct tape. Let us know when you put your theory together as to how this relates to the stain - I am curious.

 

[LambChop]

:maddening: Hate when real life takes time away from WS!

:twocents: Fantastic work on those pictures, hopefully there has been an enhancement performed because they tell quite a story. Caylee's foot placement seems to be in question: IMO the image could be obtained pre-or post-rigor, basically impossible to determine as outsiders since we are not privy to the dimensions of the vehicle and the "raw pattern" data. For sure tho' gravity did not pull down Caylee's foot/feet to leave a "traditional" pattern.
:twocents: The decomp rate and amount: IF Caylee was enclosed or COVERED by a plastic bag like a tent or a "greenhouse effect", the decomp rate could accelerate in the humidity/heat etc. but definitely the fluids would flow, again the "greenhouse effect". IMHO the "assists" to clean the vehicle permitted the fluid saturation to intensify into the carpet. Now who & when the vehicle was "cleaned" is up for discussion BUT I'm of the opinion that the felon made an attempt after disposing of Caylee. Depending upon the solution(s) utilized, the stain might have been "imprinted" beyond the primary "outline" from the acidic decomp fluid but definitely it did enhance the growth of mold/bacteria and virus population in & under the liner while the vehicle remained secured in the tow yard.
PS: That's also the time period when the MLD (minimal lethal dose) of "whatever used" killed off the primary invading critters BUT the new generations decided to "show up"/regenerate. (I an NOT an entomologist but have experienced picking up decomp saturated items and observing the "undersurface").
FWIW, totally agree that chloroform wasn't the fixative agent. Smart DH, Ynot, just like his beautiful wife!:seeya:
Not sure any of this answers the queries but like you all, just hypothesizing since I haven't seen the evidence.:banghead:

CarrieSis: This should answer some of your questions.

 

[CarrieSis]

Every time I find an answer, I find a new question lol.

There's a lot I'll never be able to find an answer for due to the condition of the remains when they were found. No rigor or lividity reports, etc. Just this "picture" that little angel left for us as a clue.

Searching lots of threads right now, I'm not sure my questions are right for *this* thread atm. I'll come back later if the theory holds up and post it w/links - this image of her, positioning, the stain formation itself etc are what are striking me as the beginnings of a big piece of the puzzle.

 

[AZlawyer]

The position exactly mimicks how my 2 3/4 year old slept at the time - butt in the air, legs crossed, and well... she would self-soothe with her hand in the front of the diaper area. (Follow along, I don't want to say it outright.) The other hand was usually up near her face or cuddled around her doll.

Not explained still: why naked? And if sleeping, no explanation for duct tape unless I return to my original theory that she was duct-taped shortly after she was deceased to mimic a kidnapping and cover an accidental death/negligent death. (see: 1 Tree Hill episode, Zanny abduction lies, etc). However it's my understanding there is some science that proves she was taped pre-mortem. To fit my entire theory together with the trash bags etc would require it to be placed post-purge which is not "shortly after deceased".

I need to go revisit the threads on the duct tape. This section has gotten so huge though! Before I go digging, does anyone happen to know offhand where the report on how/why we know it was placed before death is?

Found: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html page 3

Still leaves me questions. "before decomposition" - before stage 1, or before stage 2, or (unknown parameter?). The body would still be intact to be duct taped before significant decomposition occured, but would it be intact enough at 2.6 days? 1 day? 6 hours? 2 hours? Unknown...

CarrieSis--FYI there is no reason to think she was naked. Pieces of pull-up, shorts, and T-shirt were found at the scene.

 

[wenwe4]

looking for the wtp blanket pics or pink blanket found at the remains site - wondering if there are images in the blanket as well. If our theories are right, there would be the same image on the blanket that was found with the remains. Anybody have links to those pictures or know when they came out?

 

[CarrieSis]

AZlawyer - the imprint we are discussing - do you see any impression of clothing on it? Folds of fabric, lines of sleeves, shirt hem, etc? The shirt found was a 3T iirc and that would be pretty short on a child Caylee's size, sitting slightly below the waist but not covering the entire lower abdomen.

This is why I first think "hey, she's not got a shirt on" (lower area is not imprinted enough to tell on bottoms) then ask "why?"

 

[CarrieSis]

Wenwe - maybe there would not be on the blanket. The trunk liner carpet "off gasses" for a long time and may have reacted with something that the fibers of the blanket (what was it made of?) would not have?

 

[AZlawyer]

AZlawyer - the imprint we are discussing - do you see any impression of clothing on it? Folds of fabric, lines of sleeves, shirt hem, etc? The shirt found was a 3T iirc and that would be pretty short on a child Caylee's size, sitting slightly below the waist but not covering the entire lower abdomen.

This is why I first think "hey, she's not got a shirt on" (lower area is not imprinted enough to tell on bottoms) then ask "why?"

Well. Now that you mention it. :innocent:

Just a little bit below the end of the "chest" arrow on JWG/BJB's enhancement, I see a backward letter "B," right where the "B" in "TROUBLE" would have been on the "BIG TROUBLE" T-shirt found at the scene (with one seam still attached to Caylee's skeleton). The letters were made from a much tougher material than the shirt, which is why they survived the swamp and most of the shirt did not.





ETA: Ha. Not sure now. Maybe it's where the "R" in TROUBLE would be. I suck at spatial relationships.

ETA2: But I think it's the B...anyone better at this than I am?