2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[cloud9]

So if you are looking in the trunk, her head would have been on the left.View attachment 14345

Yes, right?

 

[Solace]

Wenwe, Lemon and Tallyho, thanks so much for your replies and your outlining.

 

[cloud9]

So if you are looking in the trunk, her head would have been on the left.View attachment 14345

Yes, from *THIS* view. However, if the carpet is removed and flipped to see the underside, it would be on the right.

 

[Solace]

THREE pieces if duct tape applied before the decomp event began don't support a baby sleeping in the trunk - neither do no scratches, attempted tears in the carpet/back of the seats.

Caylee would have fought being left in that trunk like a baby demon - it was not warm enough to kill her Monday evening (ICA left A Camp around 4/430 - was seen with TL at BB around 8 IIRC.

If I remember correctly, the heat was really bad on the 19th and that was the day LE believes she moved the body because of the odor.

 

[Solace]

The knife was from a set never used. So, imo, KC intentionally took a knife from the set that was UNDER the regular eveyday set. She left it in the front seat and I believe even after washing it, which CA says she did, there was evidence of duct tape (HOWEVER, it is NOT DEFINITE THAT the fiber came from duct tape).

KC intentionally took that knife IMO

 

[3doglady]

Yes, from *THIS* view. However, if the carpet is removed and flipped to see the underside, it would be on the right.

Yes, but AZ said that JWG's image was taken from the top of the carpet as pictured not the underside. Hope I got that right.

 

[3doglady]

But, but but, in WW's outling of the body on the stain (incredible) there is no tape on Caylee's hand it is free and on the side that is lying against the rug. I don't see any tape at all.

I see tape in two places.

 

[ynotdivein]

But, but but, in WW's outling of the body on the stain (incredible) there is no tape on Caylee's hand it is free and on the side that is lying against the rug. I don't see any tape at all.

Solace, honestly I thought I had this all figured out in my head all this time--am still reeling from the :blushing: of having it literally flipped on me! At this point, about the only thing I'm 100% sure of is that we ARE seeing an image of Caylee in these photos...

That being said, I have been noodling with the idea described by some other posters, that Caylee's hands are actually represented by the bright spot behind the waist/pull-up area. In which case, I do see two dark bands on her arms that could be tape. But I can totally see the arm in the position that you are describing, too.

It's like the story books for kids, where the picture on the cardboard cover shifts depending on the angle you hold it.

I'm totally afraid at this point to tiptoe into the image of Caylee's head...

 

[pip]

Here are your pictures, top and bottom of the wheel cover. I do see a stain, however, I can't make out a shape.
Just looks like a big stain that someone poured a cleaner of some sort directly on the stain to saturate it, I say this because I see a whiteish stain towards the edge of the original stain. There also appears to be some rust colored "markings" on the directions :waitasec:

[/IMG]

Yes, but AZ said that JWG's image was taken from the top of the carpet as pictured not the underside. Hope I got that right.

Photo 1 is the top of the carpet where the image picture is taken from, picture 2 shows the bottom side of the underliner (it is showing the side that faces the wheel underneath). If you turn #2 underliner over and slip it under the carpet in photo #1 the large stain would be on the left top side of the trunk as you stand at the back of the car looking into the trunk. I believe that is where her head was, possibly where the bags leaked as well. I think her body was lying on the left side of the trunk, head in first at top, feet at the opening of the trunk.
The plastic piece to the left of each picture designates topside or underside.

If the stain is from the bags leaking, I believe she went into the bags feet first, head at the cinched end where it could leak.

 

[3doglady]

This is where I thought I saw her head. Left side of trunk (behind the driver's side) as you are looking in the trunk. But I could easily be seeing things again.

 

[pip]

View attachment 14349 This is where I thought I saw her head. Left side of trunk (behind the driver's side) as you are looking in the trunk. But I could easily be seeing things again.

Me too. I can't really say from that pic, but from the JWG one with full body it appears left side of trunk, head at top.

 

[Solace]

I see tape in two places. View attachment 14348

NOW I SEE IT. SHE taped her hands behind her back to she would not be able to use them to remove the tape - Ashton said a child of Caylee's age should be able to remove the tape - although I might disagree with that especially if it went three times around her head. (I could be wrong that he said that - thought he did, when he is describing her death and KC says to Lyon make him stop).

Maybe he was referring to the fact that it went around three times and the killer was making sure she could not get it off.

But I do see the tape now. Horrifying. I don't know my son says they will never give her death, but they just might if the jury ends up KNOWING what we on this Board know, especially of late with the tape and the picture in the trunk, it is possible.

 

[Solace]

View attachment 14349 This is where I thought I saw her head. Left side of trunk (behind the driver's side) as you are looking in the trunk. But I could easily be seeing things again.

Thank you for outlining your thoughts - makes it so much easier to respond to and understand. It looks like it.

 

[Solace]

Solace, honestly I thought I had this all figured out in my head all this time--am still reeling from the :blushing: of having it literally flipped on me! At this point, about the only thing I'm 100% sure of is that we ARE seeing an image of Caylee in these photos...

That being said, I have been noodling with the idea described by some other posters, that Caylee's hands are actually represented by the bright spot behind the waist/pull-up area. In which case, I do see two dark bands on her arms that could be tape. But I can totally see the arm in the position that you are describing, too.

It's like the story books for kids, where the picture on the cardboard cover shifts depending on the angle you hold it.

I'm totally afraid at this point to tiptoe into the image of Caylee's head...

Hi YNot,

What has happened on this Board this past week is really amazing - some very good people here. I would not have been able to do what they have done. So thank you all. Totally changed my mindset of this crime. It is one thing to say she killed her child and left her in the trunk - first she chloroformed her.

HOWEVER, it is quite another to actually see the outline of the child in the car and her thumb and little chubby hand kills me every time. Seriously, I am sick about it.

So if they bring her to life in the jury's eyes and then show her in death, KC could get death.

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping this top-side color-cranked version for application to our current conversation. (Now that I understand where the stain really is, this is all like a brand-new thread to me...)

Not sure if this means anything, but I cranked the color saturation and tint up and now the trunk carpet looks completely different.

 

[3doglady]

One more try. Yeah! I learned to type labels. LOL

 

[LCoastMom]

One more try. Yeah! I learned to type labels. LOLView attachment 14350

Good job!

Is the area to the left of the word head (or under the word?) what you are seeing - so possibly the white area to the left of her arm would be Caylee's neck?

 

[dsntslp]

How tall was Caylee and does that match what the drawings show?

The 27 inches or so that I count based on the latest theory/drawings seems to short to me...
That seems more like a one year old going on two, not 2 going on 3, imo.

Did I measure wrong or miss something?

 

[ynotdivein]

How tall was Caylee and does that match what the drawings show?

Hi dsntslp--IIRC we went through some of this back around post #500 of this thread--look before and after that post; AZ and others did some good research on toddler heights and measurements of various limbs compared to the ruler LE included in their shots of the trunk. HTH!

 

[LCoastMom]

I was wondering if it has been definitely established by experts that CA's body was definitely in this trunk and if these stains are definitely from her. I just started following this case recently and do not know all the facts or what is speculation. tia

It is a process of elimination. One hair with a death band was found in the trunk - it belonged to (SP?), CA, KC or Caylee. Well, as KC said, she is still alive (as are CA and SP).

There were no other small children in the immediate area reported missing in July 2008 - but there was a decomp event in the Pontiac and 6 months later Caylee's remains were found around the block. Found with items from the home.

So, if not Caylee - who?