2010.03.08 Motion to Exclude Hearsay, Gossip, Innuendo - Legal insight requested

[TotallyObsessed]

I must say that I am a little bit speechless after reading the compilation of statements by "people" and others! I mean, does the defense know that they just memorialized in writing, in the court record, all of these statements about how dastardly their client is? Where did these people get their law degrees?
AND in our daily update thread, there is a link to a motion to exclude "lay" opinion testimony. I just find this a little bit "off center" to be objecting to statements made in the media which really have no bearing on the case, because these statements will have to be admitted through sworn testimony and substantiated by their deposition statements. It's kind of like the defense is yelling "objection, Your Honor" but....the ..... trial....hasn't.....

 

[logicalgirl]

Agree re WS'ers sleuthing abililties and forecasting throwing Cindy under the bus.

I couldn't "see" how the Defense was going to do that - but now we have foreshadowing of what's to come.

I believe like you Cindy is guilty of obstruction, evidence tampering and destroying evidence and want to see her charged when this is over.

We saw only a blip of the true grandmother during the frantic 911 call. Think about Cindy during the memorial - three children - Cindy wanted to be the centre of attention. I think she deliberately had a cremation rather than a burial to punish Casey and show her she had the upper hand.

There is no way on this earth Cindy will allow herself to be the fall guy in this case. It was one thing for Cindy to defend Casey because as George said we don't want to believe someone we've raised could do something like this. But Cindy was defending her own reputation as a mother, plus defending Casey - against the world.

This fight will be Cindy against Casey - with Cindy ending up as either "the bad guy" or the "good guy" - and no in between. We've seen Cindy act out before, but if Baez really tries this, I think we'll see Cindy go way over the top defending herself. Cindy's actions in defending Casey have been an act of defending herself and in her mind - how good a mother she was.

I wonder what Brad is doing today - or if he's gone into hiding. Because I know one thing for sure - Cindy is rummaging around in her closet looking for the infamous green sweater, and once she understands what Baez is up to, what WSers have understood for some time now - Cindy will be looking for a rumble! If Casey thought the fight on the 15th was bad - this is going to get really nasty. When the fight comes down to only Cindy vs Casey, self preservation for Cindy will kick in. Just think about how messy this could get and what a truly angry Cindy could say about Casey.

What I hope is Cindy flips and ends up on the side of the SA. I can dream can't I? I'd so love to see that!

Whoops sorry about the double post - was trying to correct Cindy defending Casey part - right in "duplicate" post

 

[strawberry]

Bombshell! State files Motion to Exclude Highjinks, Shenanigans, and Tomfoolery by the Defense!

LOLOLOLOL! I almost fell off my chair!

 

[Chiquita71]

The car isn't a random location. It is the last place anyone besides KC saw Caylee alive. George said he carried Caylee out to the car on June 16 and put Caylee in her car seat.

In her state deposition, Cindy, on page 305, says she is a nurse that is familiar with the smell of dead bodies and that she has debrided rotting flesh. http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

The part of the 911 call that Baez wants excluded is Cindy's direct observation of the condition of the car where Caylee was last seen alive by someone besides KC. Cindy was reporting a crime, a kidnapping, when she made that phone call. She was relaying facts. She said that the car smelled like a dead body.

Respectfully Quoted Jolynna
BBM

Okay. I in all my reading of this case have never heard that George said he put Caylee in her car seat on the 16th! Wow. From the GVS interview it seemed he was on the couch when they walked by and it was like, "okay, see ya later!" I know in one story he said he gave her breakfast(didn't he? I guess I am not so sure about that now that I say that), but in another does not...lots and lots of different stories...lots. :crazy:

Sorry to ask about something o/t but which interview does George make this statement? TIA

(Oh, and please know I don't doubt what you are saying Jolynna! It just never ceases to amaze me, that no matter how much I read re: this case, I am always finding out stuff I didn't know.) TIA

...JS...

 

[tekilla]

Wonder how Cindy feels about what the Defense is stating about her and Caylee.
That it was not an Emergency when she reported Caylee missing but an investigatin.
The she was not under stress that Caylee was missing because she had known about it.

Page 11
"That there is no evidence that Cynthia Anthony was under stress of a startling event."
"That there was no immediate emergency..."

Of course, Mr. Baez, it wasn't an immediate emergency. The poor baby had already been deceased for 31 days at that point. Of course KC knew this, but did anyone else?

 

[strawberry]

Actually he's right that CA should have acted. She was obligated as an RN to take action to protect a child at risk but didn't. Had she, KC wouldn't have had the opportunity to murder her. But I'm referring to what CA should have done months prior to 'the event'.

Just throwing that out there. ITA with your post. CA was too afraid of losing her daughter to protect her grandaughter and now she's lost them both plus her career.

I know what you mean. I'm an RN too

 

[strawberry]

Respectfully Quoted Jolynna
BBM

Okay. I in all my reading of this case have never heard that George said he put Caylee in her car seat on the 16th! Wow. From the GVS interview it seemed he was on the couch when they walked by and it was like, "okay, see ya later!" I know in one story he said he gave her breakfast(didn't he? I guess I am not so sure about that now that I say that), but in another does not...lots and lots of different stories...lots. :crazy:

Sorry to ask about something o/t but which interview does George make this statement? TIA

(Oh, and please know I don't doubt what you are saying Jolynna! It just never ceases to amaze me, that no matter how much I read re: this case, I am always finding out stuff I didn't know.) TIA

...JS...

Yes, his story changed quite a bit. His original verion had him on the couch watching FN. I believe it's in his State Deposition where he says he fixed breakfast and carried Caylee out to the car.

 

[essies]

Respectfully Quoted Jolynna
BBM

Okay. I in all my reading of this case have never heard that George said he put Caylee in her car seat on the 16th! Wow. From the GVS interview it seemed he was on the couch when they walked by and it was like, "okay, see ya later!" I know in one story he said he gave her breakfast(didn't he? I guess I am not so sure about that now that I say that), but in another does not...lots and lots of different stories...lots. :crazy:

Sorry to ask about something o/t but which interview does George make this statement? TIA

(Oh, and please know I don't doubt what you are saying Jolynna! It just never ceases to amaze me, that no matter how much I read re: this case, I am always finding out stuff I didn't know.) TIA

...JS...

bbm
Here's the interview Chiquita-it was recorded by PattyG and you'll hear her (PattyG) at about 2:25 say "he put Caylee in the car?" I don't believe anyone heard this part of the story till this CBS interview last June 16th.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8JdyHFd6g[/ame]

 

[elementary]

Excellent post. And I agree with everything you say. But I also can't help but think if CA is deranged enough to WANT to be accused of Caylee's murder so she can help get her daughter off.

The question is if Cindy wants to be the martyr in this case? Wouldn't that be the ultimate sacrifice a mother could make?

This is exactly what I have been thinking! IIRC didn't George and she make a statement a while ago that they would do whatever it takes to get the perp off, even if it meant sacrificing their lives? I believe Cindy would fall upon her sword for the ultimate win.

 

[Chiquita71]

Agree re WS'ers sleuthing abililties and forecasting throwing Cindy under the bus.

I couldn't "see" how the Defense was going to do that - but now we have foreshadowing of what's to come.

I believe like you Cindy is guilty of obstruction, evidence tampering and destroying evidence and want to see her charged when this is over.

We saw only a blip of the true grandmother during the frantic 911 call. Think about Cindy during the memorial - three children - Cindy wanted to be the centre of attention. I think she deliberately had a cremation rather than a burial to punish Casey and show her she had the upper hand.

There is no way on this earth Cindy will allow Casey to be the fall guy in this case. It was one thing for Cindy to defend Casey because as George said we don't want to believe someone we've raised could do something like this. But Cindy was defending her own reputation as a mother, plus defending Casey - against the world.

This fight will be Cindy against Casey - with Cindy ending up as either "the bad guy" or the "good guy" - and no in between. We've seen Cindy act out before, but if Baez really tries this, I think we'll see Cindy act out as never before. Cindy's actions in defending Casey have been an act of defending herself and in her mind - how good a mother she was.

I wonder what Brad is doing today - or if he's gone into hiding. Because I know one thing for sure - Cindy is rummaging around in her closet looking for the infamous green sweater, and once she understands what Baez is up to, what WSers have understood for some time now - Cindy will be looking for a rumble! If Casey thought the fight on the 15th was bad - this is going to get really nasty. When the fight comes down to only Cindy vs Casey, self preservation for Cindy will kick in.

What I hope is Cindy flips and ends up on the side of the SA. I can dream can't I? I'd so love to see that!

Quote Respect logicalgirl
BBM

About Cindy feeling she had "three" children. In Cindy's myspace entry where she is speaking of all the things Casey should be grateful for instead of jealous she says re: Caylee "fed, clothed...RAISED."

Sorry not exact quote but it hit me that she said this. Just another example that Cindy was trying to be Caylee's mother. AND THAT wouldn't have been so bad if Cindy would have acted like a mother to Caylee but all that was just to spite Casey and try to control her, not because Cindy so loved Caylee. IMHO.

Casey lies but I think she was telling the truth about Cindy trying to be Caylee's "mom". In AD's interview she says re: Caylee's second birthday party "Casey was mad that Cindy was playing mom, Casey wanted to play mom. That is what these women thought being a mother was/is: "playing mom." Not BEING a mom. And I think it speaks to Cindy's warped perspective that she thinks a baby making it to two and a half is "raised." ? I know she did not know Caylee was gone at that point but she knew Caylee was not "raised" yet. :crazy:

There is also the (LKL?)interview where Cindy says, "Casey loved Caylee more than I love Casey." And SP says "Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee." There you go...

Caylee was a pawn between these two women. I don't know if the statements above are anything the jury would hear(sorry WS you explain but I still don't understand :loser: ) but I do know that regardless there is enough that will be allowed that will make all this clear to a jury. Flat out statements like these would just be more frosting on the cupcake.

I still do not understand how a lawyer(JB)is allowed to make motions that do not make sense or follow the law? I know the judge is trying to give leeway but...? I just never knew our legal system worked this way.

Agree re WS'ers sleuthing abililties and forecasting throwing Cindy under the bus.

I couldn't "see" how the Defense was going to do that - but now we have foreshadowing of what's to come.

Yeah. ITA too.

I want Cindy to have to tell the TRUTH. I want everyone to HAVE to tell the TRUTH. I want that so bad.

:twocents:

 

[RainyGirl]

Yikes!!

Who wins in Narcissist Vs. Narcissist??

The only thing I'm sure of is that poor Caylee was the ultimate lost treasure in this disgusting saga.

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

This is exactly what I have been thinking! IIRC didn't George and she make a statement a while ago that they would do whatever it takes to get the perp off, even if it meant sacrificing their lives? I believe Cindy would fall upon her sword for the ultimate win.

In that case Cindy is absolutely deranged. I think she would want it to look like"greater love hath no man than this ,that a man give up his life for his friend. "
Actually it would seem that Casey was totally evil because of the Crazy mothering she has had! Just my opinion!:furious:

 

[strawberry]

bbm
Here's the interview Chiquita-it was recorded by PattyG and you'll hear her (PattyG) at about 2:25 say "he put Caylee in the car?" I don't believe anyone heard this part of the story till this CBS interview last June 16th.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8JdyHFd6g

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html

State Deposition, Pgs 176-179 he describes the last morning. He doesn't say he carried her out here but walked out with them and held the car door. He also says he got Caylee some breakfast.

 

[kaRN]

It looks to me like Jose is trying to use Cindy's July 3rd Myspace blog as evidence that Cindy knew Caylee had been missing for "quite some time."

I can only imagine Brad sitting there with Cindy last night explaining to her what this motion implies. Brad has to know that this is only the beginning.

Think about it, Cindy and George have been on several shows saying that they have not talked to Casey since she was arrested on Oct. 14th 2008. Cindy sends DC out into the woods off of Suburban Drive in November 2008 looking for a dead Caylee... guess what that means? Not only was Cindy the only person to know that Caylee was deceased but she knew exactly where Caylee was. How could Casey have told Cindy when Cindy says that when Casey was out on bond that they never talked about the case and they have not talked at all since she was arrested the last time?

He'll use her lies and her behavior too. Cindy and Casey's relationship was extremely bad. They'll use Cindy's words she spoke at the memorial about having three children. They'll say that Cindy cremated Caylee to spite Casey. They'll have Shirley's statements about how Cindy wanted full control over Caylee. They'll have the statements made by George and Lee about the relationship between Cindy and Casey. They'll use the deposition (at MM) to show how crazy Cindy actually is. How spiteful and angry she is. They'll use Casey's friends statements about how Cindy was towards Casey and Caylee.

Of course all of this may never make it to trial... but Jose is going to file motions, just as he did with Roy Kronk, that imply that Cindy is the one responsible for Caylee's death. He may even say that Cindy hired people to kidnap Caylee and something went horribly wrong and Cindy had them discard Caylee close to home with evidence that would implicate Casey.

You'll have Cindy cleaning out the car... why would she clean out the car if it smelled like a dead body? She even sent George back to work saying "I'll deal with Casey." You have George screaming to the media that "the body that was in my granddaughter's trunk was not my granddaughter." Cindy says someone else snuck into the towyard and put someones body in the trunk and went back and removed it. How would Cindy know this.

I'm telling you, Cindy is livid right now. She's digging through that brain of hers and thinking about all the things she has said and done that could make it seem like she had something to do with Caylee's murder.

I'm wondering if Jose is on vacation right now... somewhere far, far away from Cindy's reach?

I`m no fan of CA but my heart aches for her right now. Unconditional love shouldn`t be rewarded this way.
Then again, CA is a pitbull and will fight to the death to preserve herself when push comes to shove. She knows KC and what she`s capable of and I predict crossing Cindy will be a huge defense error.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I've only skimmed through the thread, so sorry if someone else mentioned this, but let's just say the 911 call is thrown out due to "excited utterance" by CA. Ok, well GA & LA were pretty calm, cool and collected when stating, more than once, what they knew the car smelled like. Plus the guy at the tow yard. I think, more important than CA's "dead body" comment on the 911 call, is kc begging her for "one more day", her not wanting to talk to the operator and her cavalier attitude once she did.

 

[justbeachy]

Excellent post. And I agree with everything you say. But I also can't help but think if CA is deranged enough to WANT to be accused of Caylee's murder so she can help get her daughter off.

The question is if Cindy wants to be the martyr in this case? Wouldn't that be the ultimate sacrifice a mother could make?

You are right: CA might want to be accused. If the defense can make it in any way plausible that *Cindy* was responsible for Caylee's death then they might just get that one juror who has reasonable doubt regarding Casey.

 

[strawberry]

I've only skimmed through the thread, so sorry if someone else mentioned this, but let's just say the 911 call is thrown out due to "excited utterance" by CA. Ok, well GA & LA were pretty calm, cool and collected when stating, more than once, what they knew the car smelled like. Plus the guy at the tow yard. I think, more important than CA's "dead body" comment on the 911 call, is kc begging her for "one more day", her not wanting to talk to the operator and her cavalier attitude once she did.

I think you have it backwards. I think an excited utterance would be admissable because it's a moment of truth moment. That's why Baez said in his motion that CA was calm (no). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Bombshell! State files Motion to Exclude Highjinks, Shenanigans, and Tomfoolery by the Defense!

Are they trying to put lipstick on a pig too?:innocent:

 

[Chiquita71]

I`m no fan of CA but my heart aches for her right now. Unconditional love shouldn`t be rewarded this way.
Then again, CA is a pitbull and will fight to the death to preserve herself when push comes to shove. She knows KC and what she`s capable of and I predict crossing Cindy will be a huge defense error.

Quote Respect kaRN

kaRN you are a better person than I. IMHO Cindy has created this situation for herself. I just cannot find this kind of sympathy for her. And, IMHO Cindy wouldn't know unconditional love if it smacked her in the face. She never even got Casey prenatal care. Denied her daughter was pregnant, while she had (as a nurse especially)to have known Casey was carrying a child she ignored it and went about her business. That's not loving Casey or Caylee. She was more worried about herself and how Casey being pregnant would look outside of the family. That is why she lied about it at her brother's wedding.

Whatever "unconditional love" Cindy had for Caylee...well, that's pretty easy to have for a baby. We all have unconditional love for babies...it's when children begin to form their own egos, where the test of "unconditional" comes in. And, in no way do I believe that a mother who tells people her daughter is a "sociopath" has unconditional love for her. She never could have really loved Casey to allow her to continue to lie and steal. IMHO that is not love.

Cindy's own words tell of her lack of "unconditional love."
(A mother's love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed
by the one she loved and trusted the most.) The definition of "unconditional" does not include limits. Cindy is not even saying here that it is the behavior that she has a "limit" on...she is saying that a mother's love is deep BUT. THAT is a condition.

IMHO, Cindy would never sacrifice herself for Casey or anyone. She has proved that. She wouldn't even go so far as to keep her mouth shut when LE said that was what would be best for her daughter and her granddaughter. Heck, it was best for herself that she keep quiet and she didn't even do that. Cindy was not willing to even leave her house to look for her granddaughter.

If Cindy had unconditional love for Casey she would have just said that when this all went down. "I love my daughter." And that's IT. I could have understood that but what Cindy went on to do, does nothing but show me how much she is lacking in the love department.

I am so not arguing...I just can't see any love here at all and now Cindy is reaping what she sowed.

...jmo...

 

[TorisMom003]

Quote Respect kaRN

kaRN you are a better person than I. IMHO Cindy has created this situation for herself. I just cannot find this kind of sympathy for her. And, IMHO Cindy wouldn't know unconditional love if it smacked her in the face. She never even got Casey prenatal care. Denied her daughter was pregnant, while she had (as a nurse especially)to have known Casey was carrying a child she ignored it and went about her business. That's not loving Casey or Caylee. She was more worried about herself and how Casey being pregnant would look outside of the family. That is why she lied about it at her brother's wedding.

Whatever "unconditional love" Cindy had for Caylee...well, that's pretty easy to have for a baby. We all have unconditional love for babies...it's when children begin to form their own egos, where the test of "unconditional" comes in. And, in no way do I believe that a mother who tells people her daughter is a "sociopath" has unconditional love for her. She never could have really loved Casey to allow her to continue to lie and steal. IMHO that is not love.

Cindy's own words tell of her lack of "unconditional love."
(A mother's love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed
by the one she loved and trusted the most.) The definition of "unconditional" does not include limits. Cindy is not even saying here that it is the behavior that she has a "limit" on...she is saying that a mother's love is deep BUT. THAT is a condition.

IMHO, Cindy would never sacrifice herself for Casey or anyone. She has proved that. She wouldn't even go so far as to keep her mouth shut when LE said that was what would be best for her daughter and her granddaughter. Heck, it was best for herself that she keep quiet and she didn't even do that. Cindy was not willing to even leave her house to look for her granddaughter.

If Cindy had unconditional love for Casey she would have just said that when this all went down. "I love my daughter." And that's IT. I could have understood that but what Cindy went on to do, does nothing but show me how much she is lacking in the love department.

I am so not arguing...I just can't see any love here at all and now Cindy is reaping what she sowed.

...jmo...

Chiquita, I agree with your post. The bolded section is the biggest sticking point for me. I also do not see Cindy letting Casey, Baez, etc blame her (Cindy) for Caylee's death. This is one time where I think that Cindy will fight tooth and nail to make sure that Casey is the one held responsible. If Cindy is anything like I think that she is then Cindy will see this as a slap in the face and a bold statement against the family. Cindy has made it very clear that anyone against the family is the enemy and unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, Casey has just made herself an enemy against the family. For awhile now I thought that if any of the Anthony clan decided to be honest and tell exactly what Casey did it would be George. I thought that he would be the easiest to "break". Now after reading this motion and understanding exactly where the defense is going I see Cindy as being the one to turn on Casey first. Casey should have known better than to allow this kind of defense. I guess that we will finally see how far Cindy will allow this to go before she has had enough and takes Casey down for the SA.