2010.04.23 Vacuum Cleaner Forensics

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  • #101
The documents show that the As vacuums/steam cleaners were free of any forensic evidence related to this case . If I am correct after perusing everyones responses:

Some people seem to think that they DID clean the car, and that: a) they replaced the equipment b) they cleaned the equipment c) the car was cleaned elsewhere

If any of these are true, then how would that support the decomposition evidence that was found in the trunk?

And if they did not clean the car at all, then why so little decomposition evidence found?

I am thinking this evidence, or non evidence rather, leans more in the favour of the Defense though. I say this because I dont think the As are going to be known so intimately by the jurors as they are here at WS. If anything they will be seen as grieving Grandparents whose Daughter is at risk of death. Because of this, I just dont think the jury will believe that the car was cleaned.

This is of course is just my opinion, and I do wonder if this evidence will even become applicable at trial.

I think Cindy dumped the Vacuum cleaner as soon as she realized what it contained, and bought another from JC Penney.
She was very evasive when directly asked ( and never would agree) to produce the receipts for her purchases there. LE were not just interested in her shopping habits out of idle curiosity.
She was replacing something in her home that would reveal the truth about KC that much was obvious. WE shall find out eventually.
 
  • #102
You know, seriously, I wonder how much decomp really was on those pants? Was it a bit of splashing, or did they reek because they had been in the car for a month, or was it a bit of both. If it was both, and a splash of decomp, I don't think that would ruin a washer and dryer forever do you?

Just the thought of that is :sick: - sorry!

did she wash one of the carseat covers?
 
  • #103
You know, seriously, I wonder how much decomp really was on those pants? Was it a bit of splashing, or did they reek because they had been in the car for a month, or was it a bit of both. If it was both, and a splash of decomp, I don't think that would ruin a washer and dryer forever do you?

Just the thought of that is :sick: - sorry!

I don't think it would ruin either a washer or drier, but traces of evidence may have been what the Anthonys were thinking- I have seen photos of the old and the new, sitting in the garage, with comments from the person who realised they had purchased them... where I saw it I have no idea tonight, but will make an effort tomorrow to come up with it. FWIW Leonard has also stated on NG that they got rid of the washer/dryer.
 
  • #104
Okay...my memory has totally failed me on this, but weren't some paper towels tested and found to have something on them (decomp?) leading LE to believe that KC tried to clean the trunk up? Am I dreaming or making this up in my own head? Sorry - a little O/T. Someone's post down thread made me think of this.
 
  • #105
For the sake of understanding your point of view - can you tell me what parameters you would use for "cleaned"? A wipe with a bunch of paper towels, a steam cleaning or?

Well, in accordance with the title of the thread, I did mean vacuuming and/or steam cleaning. I am sorry if my post left you feeling confused somehow :)
 
  • #106
I don't think it would ruin either a washer or drier, but traces of evidence may have been what the Anthonys were thinking- I have seen photos of the old and the new, sitting in the garage, with comments from the person who realised they had purchased them... where I saw it I have no idea tonight, but will make an effort tomorrow to come up with it. FWIW Leonard has also stated on NG that they got rid of the washer/dryer.

Yes, I remember that discussion also but also can't remember where exactly I saw it. I wasn't doubting you it was more of a hypothetical question.

So let's say just for the sake of discussion, they did not purchase new ones. So if the forensics show no decomp in the machines ( I don't know about that at all) maybe the reason was Cindy was trying to remove smell, not decomp by washing the pants.

If they did purchase new ones - then we have our answer.
 
  • #107
Well, in accordance with the title of the thread, I did mean vacuuming and/or steam cleaning. I am sorry if my post left you feeling confused somehow :)

No - not confused - just like to know for sure what a poster means, especially in this case.
I don't think I would actually use a vacuum cleaner in the trunk of my car if it stunk and had the look of things spilled - I guess because I don't think it would do any good.
 
  • #108
Answering my own question about the paper towels. Yes, FBI did an analysis on them and decomp was found (this can be found on page 6557 of the FBI docs). Maybe after KC wiped the trunk out she took it to self car wash or somewhere else to vacuum it out - or maybe even used Tony's vac.
 
  • #109
I would concur except no one even noticed it while they were at the house. Moreover, why not lose the car before calling the cops? would have been a lot easier LOL.

Those of you that say he had moments of clarity or wanted to be up front at first but CA skeered him, I think you are probably right.


I definitely think they went into cover up mode, but,imo, it was after the initial first few days of the investigation not so much before. jmho of course.

BBM - totally agree.

I think at first both George and Cindy were angry at Casey and confused and afraid of what may have happened to Caylee. They had smelled the car and knew what that smell was but they didn't "know" what had happened to Caylee yet. I think it was after the first few days of discussion with LE and amongst themselves when everything started to come out that they realized that Caylee was dead and that Casey had killed her. As soon as that feeling started to become concrete they both went straight to denial and cover up mode. At first I think they both wanted to bust Casey and get ahold of Caylee.
 
  • #110
Hello WS :)

I am just throwing out something here to be picked apart. I just saw(in one of the many threads I read today, I plan to find the link later)that the body farm found decomp "in the air."

What if Caylee was bagged in the garbage bag and the canvas bag right away. With Caylee being in the trunk of the Pontiac for two days(only :rolleyes: ) maybe there was not much "liquid" as decomp evidence but measured by "air." I do not understand the technicalities of what I am suggesting here.

Meaning, any vacuuming that may have been done, would not yield the sucking up of anything tangible in that sense. So, the vacuum cleaners would not have any of this type of evidence(decomp.)

Now, why there were "no hairs" found on or in any of these devices? Even if Casey never put a dead or live Caylee in the trunk of her car: I would think there would/should be transfer hairs from stuff being moved from the back seat to the trunk, clothes or swimwear for a day of play...normal living would/should put Casey and Caylee's hair all over the car and everything they own. Unless it was just washed but even then, I do not see regular cleaning getting every single hair.

I makes me think "detailing." Lee told LE, how much his dad loved to detail their cars, that he even detailed the cars of relatives who had come to visit.(IIRC). I did say above that I remembered that George went back to work after he and Cindy brought the Pontiac home from the tow yard, so...

I admit I am confused right now. I think I might just be babbling. :waitasec:

...JS...
 
  • #111
Hello WS :)

I am just throwing out something here to be picked apart. I just saw(in one of the many threads I read today, I plan to find the link later)that the body farm found decomp "in the air."

What if Caylee was bagged in the garbage bag and the canvas bag right away. With Caylee being in the trunk of the Pontiac for two days(only :rolleyes: ) maybe there was not much "liquid" as decomp evidence but measured by "air." I do not understand the technicalities of what I am suggesting here.

Meaning, any vacuuming that may have been done, would not yield the sucking up of anything tangible in that sense. So, the vacuum cleaners would not have any of this type of evidence(decomp.)

Now, why there were "no hairs" found on or in any of these devices? Even if Casey never put a dead or live Caylee in the trunk of her car: I would think there would/should be transfer hairs from stuff being moved from the back seat to the trunk, clothes or swimwear for a day of play...normal living would/should put Casey and Caylee's hair all over the car and everything they own. Unless it was just washed but even then, I do not see regular cleaning getting every single hair.

I makes me think "detailing." Lee told LE, how much his dad loved to detail their cars, that he even detailed the cars of relatives who had come to visit.(IIRC). I did say above that I remembered that George went back to work after he and Cindy brought the Pontiac home from the tow yard, so...

I admit I am confused right now. I think I might just be babbling. :waitasec:

...JS...

Chiquita, the vacuuming could not have gotten rid of nor does it explain the stains on the trunk liner...

Thread link here
 
  • #112
What I don't understand is if they went to all this trouble cover evidence as is presented here, why do you all think GA made a point of telling YM at their first meeting that the car smelled like something was dead back there and that he thought KC was holding something back? Why would he have brought attention to something that no one had even noticed yet and they were trying to conceal? Crikey they could have set the car on fire and destroyed everything.

Think Cindy and CASH.

That car probably only had liablility on it, it is an older car.
They wouldn't have gotton a nickle for it ~

So, CASH, and that brings me to the conclusion that this is why Cindy in her first angry calls to 911 tells she wants her daughter arrested for grand theft auto.
She just put out close to $500 for tow and storage fees.
She needed a police report to go with her reciept to turn it in to the insurance company so she could get it back.

Probably thought once she had the police report in hand, she could later drop charges after submitting it to the insurance, and, in the meantime, try to scare Casey with it.
Same thing with that gas can caper of George's, IMO.

Sorry if anyone else has brought this up = I'm just catching up from page 3, and, now will go back.
 
  • #113
Answering my own question about the paper towels. Yes, FBI did an analysis on them and decomp was found (this can be found on page 6557 of the FBI docs). Maybe after KC wiped the trunk out she took it to self car wash or somewhere else to vacuum it out - or maybe even used Tony's vac.

Can you provide a link to this fbi doc. Only because some people think that Dr Vass and the body farm are FBI. They are not. thanks
 
  • #114
  • #115
I think Cindy dumped the Vacuum cleaner as soon as she realized what it contained, and bought another from JC Penney.
She was very evasive when directly asked ( and never would agree) to produce the receipts for her purchases there. LE were not just interested in her shopping habits out of idle curiosity.
She was replacing something in her home that would reveal the truth about KC that much was obvious. WE shall find out eventually.

Now see, THIS is where I'm confused now, lol! I'd always thought that KC had Cindy's JCP card and had made charges on it during that 31 days. LE knew this and asked Cindy for the bill, to which CA replied something along the lines of 'she had looked at it and there not being anything of interest' on them. I remember thinking WTH does she know whats 'of interest' to LE! I assumed that LE finally got a copy.. IIRC, there was speculation of KC purchasing 2 lockets (wonder what ever happened regarding that?) or possibly buying a Winnie the Pooh replacement blanket..IDK..

Am I Crazy? Have I completely lost my mind? I'm not sure that I REALLY want anyone to answer that! :snooty:
 
  • #116
Hello WS :)

I guess I am thinking that when any vacuuming was done(by Casey at some earlier point), there was no more 'liquid' decomp "left." If Casey had used paper towels, and in one of the threads TL says Casey took his jeep to the car wash(which isn't her car, but...)and fluid had leaked into the trunk, making the stain in the trunk.

So, by the time Cindy, and or George would be doing any cleaning with their vacuum cleaners, there would be no "actual" decomp to find with them? Like I said, it is just something that was running around in my head. I think I am stuck on trying to understand whether Cindy and George really did any cleaning of the pontiac. We know Cindy washed pants, and a knife...

My mind is asking: What does the lack of evidence in these vacuum cleaners mean? IMO, whether or not Cindy and George washed the car and for what reason(unless they really did hurt Caylee or knew for sure ahead of LE)does not negate what IMO the information shows as Casey's involvement in her daughter's demise. But, I can see how it could help the defense. Well, I saw that WSers brought this up and off the top of my head I can see why they would say that.

Really, the only win I see for the defense is to say there was no decomp found in the grandparents vacuum cleaners. The grandparents shouldn't have been cleaning in the first place(LE asked AH why George and Cindy hadn't called LE at the tow yard if they were worried about their "missing" daughter and granddaughter) so for my thinking, this wouldn't help them much. Am I thinking right? They are not Casey's vacuum cleaners.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69796&highlight=evidence
(Body Farm Evidence)

...JS...
 
  • #117
  • #118
There are many scenerios as to why no decomp was found in the vacs. Many.
 
  • #119
This news article was on December 12, 2008, right after little Caylee's remains were found. It mentions 3 vacuum cleaners were removed from the Anthony's home at that time, plus other evidence.

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/several-items-o.html

Items removed from the Anthony family home include:
three vacuum cleaners, two pesticide tanks, a small pillow, seven large paper bags and four boxes of potential evidence.



During an interview with CNN, Orange County sheriff Kevin Beary said that investigators "absolutely" found something of interest while searching the home.

In a separate interview with "The Today Show," Beary said that something found with the child skeletal remains prompted the search.
 
  • #120
Okay, thank you. Dr Vass did not state that he found human decomp on the napkins. He stated that he found an adipocere like substance on the napkin. Could be a lot of things. Thanks

Your welcome. He does say that the fatty ratios detected on the paper towels are quite consistent with those identified in human and pig decomposition - and that the reason for testing the towels in the first place was because of fly pupae. I realize that this is just one study, but along with the finding of the one hair indicating decomp, the smell, the air sample tests, and the stain - it all kind of comes together in making one believe that Caylee was in that trunk dead - Casey being the last person who ever saw her.
 
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