2010.05.11 - "The irony is rich!"

[LambChop]

BBM: I thought he said new information and then changed it to additional information? Either way, here is my theory:

The new/additional information is the material that Dr. Spitz is going to testify to - according to the motion hearing - the mud in the skull, etc. If JB learned about this info recently, perhaps from Dr. Spitz's assistant, he may want to bring this up to both Kathy Reichs, Logan and Rodriguez to see if this might make them write a more favorable report for the defense. I don't think this info will change anything, but JB could be hoping for a miracle.

Did Kathy Reichs examine the skull also prior to Dr. Spitz? If she did than she also did not follow what Dr. Spitz refers to as proper procedures when examining a skull?

 

[magiemay]

That bothered me too and it seemed he was persistent in asking this several different ways. What's up with that?

If I had to say one most unusual thing during the hearing struck me it was this. Amil you were there what was the tone when this was happening can you elaborate ? I just feel there is some reason. Although it seems not alot of people have mentioned it , so maybe it was just my perspective.

 

[faefrost]

If I had to say one most unusual thing during the hearing struck me it was this. Amil you were there what was the tone when this was happening can you elaborate ? I just feel there is some reason. Although it seems not alot of people have mentioned it , so maybe it was just my perspective.

I thought that JB was in a mild panic and was trying to force the issue or change the prior order. Because according to the order to compel the discovery, the experts will only be allowed to testify to what they stated either in provided discovery documentation (reports etc) or anything that they stated at deposition.

JB's fear is that he just handed the SA a major weapon. With no reports submitted they may electively choose to not depose his expert witnesses. At which point the only thing that they would be allowed to talk about, due to the judges order, would be their resume's and CV.

This is JB's massive screw up. But what he was trying to do was make it seem like the state was planning to use this sneaky underhanded and unethical tactic to essentially block his experts from testifying. Which would be sooo unfair to his poor clients rights to a fair trial yadda yadda yadda. The SA was put out because this was yet another highly offensive accusation for the defense to lob at them when they have been nothing but professional throughout. It is in fact the defenses lack of professionalism that has led to the point where their experts may not be allowed to offer anything at trial, but JB was trying to lay the blame for it on JA and LDB. They were not upset or worried. The SA was pissed. Which seemed to be pretty much their default state throughout that hearing.

 

[magiemay]

I thought that JB was in a mild panic and was trying to force the issue or change the prior order. Because according to the order to compel the discovery, the experts will only be allowed to testify to what they stated either in provided discovery documentation (reports etc) or anything that they stated at deposition.

JB's fear is that he just handed the SA a major weapon. With no reports submitted they may electively choose to not depose his expert witnesses. At which point the only thing that they would be allowed to talk about, due to the judges order, would be their resume's and CV.

This is JB's massive screw up. But what he was trying to do was make it seem like the state was planning to use this sneaky underhanded and unethical tactic to essentially block his experts from testifying. Which would be sooo unfair to his poor clients rights to a fair trial yadda yadda yadda. The SA was put out because this was yet another highly offensive accusation for the defense to lob at them when they have been nothing but professional throughout. It is in fact the defenses lack of professionalism that has led to the point where their experts may not be allowed to offer anything at trial, but JB was trying to lay the blame for it on JA and LDB. They were not upset or worried. The SA was pissed. Which seemed to be pretty much their default state throughout that hearing.

Thanks Faefrost, I just do not trust {Baez} and felt he was up to no good!!!

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I just keep remembering the questions and remarks JB kept going on with to JP about do the rules apply to the state, being rules of if its not in a depo or report do the same rules apply and what would happen if the state were to forgo their depo, He took a lot of time asking all of this and SA seemed upset and confused by it as did I. I just wonder what JB is up to with all of that. For the life of me it makes no sense to ask and coment all of this unless he is up to something with these depos and reports. why on earth would he even think the state would forgo their depo??? Maybe someone else understands better than I do and can explain.:shakehead:

I noticed this as well. My first thoughts were that Baez has already done the depositions on the prosecution's experts and there is a lot of material out there for them to be questioned on.

On the other hand, he has fooled around with his experts for a long time and has few reports and depositions on record. For those whom he has not provided reports, there is nothing for them to be questioned about in a deposition. Why should Ashton put an expert through a deposition if there is no report?

If his own experts aren't depositioned due to lack of information, all they can testify to is what Baez put in his "summaries"!

While Judge Perry indicated an "out" by the use of hypotheticals, it's not as good as solid testimony.

This means that either his experts have no opinions worth testifying about, or Baez, by trying to "hide" their information has put himself in yet another pickle.

 

[LambChop]

Am I missing something here. Dr. Logan, defense's expert is going to testify against the "sniffer" stuff (technical term here) when his expertise is in the area of alcohol and drug such as in breathalyzer testing. So how can he testify against the State's experts when it will sound like sour grapes....."my sniffer is better than our sniffer"????

jmo

 

[Intermezzo]

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3581916879/m/48019429001

Looking back on Baez & the Nilton Diaz case and compare to what I have noticed in the Anthony case thus far.

1) " I'm not going to defend Nilton Diaz," defense lawyer Jose A. Baez promised jurors during opening statements in Diaz's trial. "I'm going to prosecute Samaris Bobe Silva." ( Silva is the dead toddlers mother)

Apply that to the current case and we see that he would have tried to prosecute..let's see..Roy Kronk, but JBP put a halt to that.. possibly Jesse Grund

2) "But defense lawyers Baez and Jonathan Kasen said they intend to attack the state's case by assailing detective Dan Conlee for zeroing in too quickly on Diaz, by criticizing the work of a medical examiner and by accusing the young mother."

What can I say but "Sound Familiar?" Insert Detectives Yuri Melich and John Allen, and criticism of ME Garavaglia

3) "Baez told jurors that Silva was a liar and child abuser who calmly fell asleep en route to a sheriff's interview while doctors in Orlando were desperately trying to save her daughter's life."

"Baez said Noe Vazquez also will testify that Silva "treated their child more [like] an animal than a baby" and that she had once vowed to "kill the baby before I ever give it to you."

"The defense portrait of Silva as a cold and uncaring mother"

I guess his description of a caring mother has changed since the Diaz trial


What may come?

With no eyewitnesses, the state's case focused on medical testimony, which ruled out an accidental fall.


4) "Diaz says he lost his freedom because of Baez's trial performance, strategy and failure to disclose evidence to prosecutors, a tactical decision that prevented jurors from viewing a defense video."

"In documents filed this week seeking a new trial and other post-conviction relief, Diaz said, " ... Mr. Baez wanted to surprise the prosecution, and the surprise blew up in the defense's face."

Is that what Baez was going to do and may still be trying to do in the Anthony case...Trial by Ambush? Has JBP's Orders Thwarted Baez plan of attack?

 

[Amil]

Am I missing something here. Dr. Logan, defense's expert is going to testify against the "sniffer" stuff (technical term here) when his expertise is in the area of alcohol and drug such as in breathalyzer testing. So how can he testify against the State's experts when it will sound like sour grapes....."my sniffer is better than our sniffer"????

jmo

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23621537/detail.html page 22 - defense asks for information about sniffer machines - Oak Ridge Lab says no sniffer machine was used Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer was used.

 

[Amil]

If I had to say one most unusual thing during the hearing struck me it was this. Amil you were there what was the tone when this was happening can you elaborate ? I just feel there is some reason. Although it seems not a lot of people have mentioned it , so maybe it was just my perspective.

The tone? Gee, during much of the hearing intelligent people were trying not to snicker at Baez. At one point, JB was standing at the podium with his hands behind his back clicking a pen so rapidly that it was obvious he was nervous. "do your experts have telephones, Mr.Baez" snicker snicker

 

[joypath]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23621537/detail.html page 22 - defense asks for information about sniffer machines - Oak Ridge Lab says no sniffer machine was used Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer was used.

BINGO!:floorlaugh: :twocents: WHICH is why :innocent: IMHO (not IHMO, see dyslexia attacks even with spell check, Dr. GLASS :innocent:!) {back to sentence structure} Jose tried to backpedal :back: to emphasize that Dr. Logan was going to ATTACK the interpretation!

AGAIN, MHO :innocent: Dr. Logan probably gave him a "gem": :takeabow: "paraphrased" JAB, the science is accepted ( :dohUH..GC/MS in labs forever almost, dude :doh so your ONLY hope is fight the opinions/data/interpretations/ideas/dreams/get me the database for my P&L so I can do R&D on it,oops the last one)" and Jose assumes that to be a touchdown pass!

Dr. Logan the CHEMIST (yeah, toxicology is a subset of chemistry in 99.9% of the labs, even gets the title "special chemistry") might :waitasec: be arguing stat deviation and random distribution or even quality control but NOT :snooty: the "nuts & bolts" of GS/MS analysis! :banghead:

PS: chemists :Banane59: are our friends sometimes: :beersign:"better living thru chemistry" :drink:, just wish they :Banane13: spoke/wrote/drew their symbols in the vernacular, opps easy "English"

 

[Numbers]

How's this for Irony?

:twocents:Something else interesting: the Court order to ship the shorts & bag dated December 3 indicated that they were to be received & held by a Katherine Cross @ NMS and tested by NME employees, ONLY*. Now, hunting around I discovered that Ms Cross is not a mailroom employee but a real live scientist!:rocker: Not only that she's been around the block and in a courtroom: "Forensic Biologist :rocker: Katherine Cross, who works for NMS Labs in Willow Grove, spoke about blood spatter and DNA....." where she "chatted" about another case!
SO it does appear that some how the defense Esquire :turkeyf record for the inmate could have spoken to the REAL CONTACT PERSON! Why do I "feel" that Ego Jose believes he can only speak to the "top dog"?:beagle:


MAYBE JOSE :werk: WAS CALLING THE WRONG PERSON??????????


*This is IMPORTANT 'cause lots of folks ASSUMED that the Dutch duo (names escape me!) were performing their magic testing on the exemplars SO unless NMS HIRED THEM (get your H1B VISA/ GREEN CARDS HERE!) :truce:, no hands-on services should have been provided!:banghead:


Here's another "wild thought":singing: : maybe JAB wanted the lab to WAIT :treadmill: for the Dutch duo to arrive in the USA to observe/perform the testing SINCE the male member is ON HIS WITNESS LIST!!!! :banghead:

I thought Eikelenboom had already submitted his report.

"c. Richard Eikelenboom's report has been furnished to the prosecution."

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26611795/detail.html

 

[ZsaZsa]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23621537/detail.html page 22 - defense asks for information about sniffer machines - Oak Ridge Lab says no sniffer machine was used Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer was used.

I feel confident that JB cannot even SAY Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer, never mind debate the findings with a Scientist. This should be fun....:loser:

 

[Intermezzo]

I thought Eikelenboom had already submitted his report.

"c. Richard Eikelenboom's report has been furnished to the prosecution."

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26611795/detail.html

bbm
Thanks for the reminder Numbers

 

[Tulessa]

Baez is being Thwarted at every turn.:floorlaugh:

Kama, the priceless gift that keeps on giving! :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Macushla]

Did Kathy Reichs examine the skull also prior to Dr. Spitz? If she did than she also did not follow what Dr. Spitz refers to as proper procedures when examining a skull?

For some reason, I am thinking she did not examine the skull at all? But I don't think that could possibly be right because I don't think she would render an opinion based only on crime scene photos and autopsy (such as it was) photos. Let me wander though the threads and elsewhere on the internet to see if I can find an answer to this question.

ETA: I can not find any article or statement that Kathy Reichs has examined the remains. Dr. Spitz cnducted his own autopsy and it was finished on Dec. 24, 2010. I read one article that said Henry Lee observed or was there with him. Nothing I can find mentions Kathy Reichs as being there or having examined the remains at all. So now I am wondering if she is going to submit a report based on photographs only......

 

[MissJames]

I thought that JB was in a mild panic and was trying to force the issue or change the prior order. Because according to the order to compel the discovery, the experts will only be allowed to testify to what they stated either in provided discovery documentation (reports etc) or anything that they stated at deposition.

JB's fear is that he just handed the SA a major weapon. With no reports submitted they may electively choose to not depose his expert witnesses. At which point the only thing that they would be allowed to talk about, due to the judges order, would be their resume's and CV.

This is JB's massive screw up. But what he was trying to do was make it seem like the state was planning to use this sneaky underhanded and unethical tactic to essentially block his experts from testifying. Which would be sooo unfair to his poor clients rights to a fair trial yadda yadda yadda. The SA was put out because this was yet another highly offensive accusation for the defense to lob at them when they have been nothing but professional throughout. It is in fact the defenses lack of professionalism that has led to the point where their experts may not be allowed to offer anything at trial, but JB was trying to lay the blame for it on JA and LDB. They were not upset or worried. The SA was pissed. Which seemed to be pretty much their default state throughout that hearing.

BBM

:great::woohoo::woohoo::great::floorlaugh:


:seeya: HaHaHa! JB and CM !

downside is a "fair" trial for the murderer . I'd hate to see her conviction overturned .
I wish HHJP would require ICA be present at EVERY interaction,status hearing or motions.
She should be asked at each hearing if she is satisfied with her attorneys.

 

[watcher9]

A little O/T, but I was watching a story about Timothy Masters, convicted of murder, and his eventual release due to touch DNA testing performed by the Eickelenbooms, who had apparently also "cleared" John & Patsy Ramsey.

I did a search on them and found this interesting summary of a seminar where touch DNA testing has reversed several convictions. I don't know why it doesn't mention any cases where touch DNA testing could seal a conviction.

http://www.clutterinvestigations.com/dna_testing.html

 

[Intermezzo]

A little O/T, but I was watching a story about Timothy Masters, convicted of murder, and his eventual release due to touch DNA testing performed by the Eickelenbooms, who had apparently also "cleared" John & Patsy Ramsey.

I did a search on them and found this interesting summary of a seminar where touch DNA testing has reversed several convictions. I don't know why it doesn't mention any cases where touch DNA testing could seal a conviction.

http://www.clutterinvestigations.com/dna_testing.html

Were they, the E's, working with Bode Technology?
That was the lab that conducted the TouchDNA tests.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9828903

"Last year, Lacy attended a National Institute of Justice program on forensic biology and DNA that introduced her to a new technology called "touch DNA," she said in the release.

At the end of last year, her office opted to work with Bode Technology Group near Washington, D.C., to apply the new technology to the Ramsey case."

 

[watcher9]

On the Masters documentary, the E's were still overseas at their "Crime Farm" in the Netherlands.

I believe, when JB tried to get the E's approved to do the testing last year, it wasn't allowed because they were out of the US.

I don't know when they tested the Ramseys.

 

[jennyb]

I feel confident that JB cannot even SAY Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer, never mind debate the findings with a Scientist. This should be fun....:loser:

ROFL! He'll probably spit out something like "the Flux Capacitor thingie!".