2010.07.19 Defense is Investigating George

[Leila]

I've even found myself questioning this trip at times but then I remember there is evidence of CA going through tolls that match the time she says she made the trip.
Even the witnesses at the old peoples' home seemed sort of vague but it was longer than a month later - how convenient!

By the way, what were you, your child or your husband wearing a month ago? Let's see, that would be August 20 I guess.

That one has never ceased to amaze me! Here we have a man who is able to tell us exactly what Caylee and Casey were wearing on June 16, 2008 when they left the house that day - a day that was like any other day.

First of all, George is a male, and males are notorious for not paying attention to details when it comes to the question of what someone was wearing.

Secondly, George had no way of knowing on June 16th, that that particular day would have any importance at anytime in the future. It was a day like any other day. Thirty-one (31) more days would go by just like that day before George would learn that June 16th was the last time he saw his granddaughter and therefore it's an important date.

It defies reason that George would remember what anyone was wearing when more than a month had elapsed and there was nothing to mark June 16 as a noteworthy day, until it became known that Caylee was missing.

It was George's description of what Casey and Caylee were wearing that day that made me distrust his statement altogether. I think George's statement had two objectives.

1. to make June 16th the day anyone last saw Caylee, and make that day an unremarkable day - a day like any other day. If June 15th was the last day anyone saw Caylee, the next question would be what happened on June 15th that could have caused something to happen to Caylee? Of course, the focus would be put on the fight between Cindy and Casey on June 15th.

2. to make a point that whatever happened to Caylee happened somewhere else - somewhere away from the Anthony home. In other words........Caylee was fine when she left the Anthony home, so don't look at the Anthony home as the crime scene.

 

[ZsaZsa]

That one has never ceased to amaze me! Here we have a man who is able to tell us exactly what Caylee and Casey were wearing on June 16, 2008 when they left the house that day - a day that was like any other day.

First of all, George is a male, and males are notorious for not paying attention to details when it comes to the question of what someone was wearing.

Secondly, George had no way of knowing on June 16th, that that particular day would have any importance at anytime in the future. It was a day like any other day. Thirty-one (31) more days would go by just like that day before George would learn that June 16th was the last time he saw his granddaughter and therefore it's an important date.

It defies reason that George would remember what anyone was wearing when more than a month had elapsed and there was nothing to mark June 16 as a noteworthy day, until it became known that Caylee was missing.

It was George's description of what Casey and Caylee were wearing that day that made me distrust his statement altogether. I think George's statement had two objectives.

1. to make June 16th the day anyone last saw Caylee, and make that day an unremarkable day - a day like any other day. If June 15th was the last day anyone saw Caylee, the next question would be what happened on June 15th that could have caused something to happen to Caylee? Of course, the focus would be put on the fight between Cindy and Casey on June 15th.

2. to make a point that whatever happened to Caylee happened somewhere else - somewhere away from the Anthony home. In other words........Caylee was fine when she left the Anthony home, so don't look at the Anthony home as the crime scene.

When he is lying he does exactly what Casey does, provides a whole lot of extra details about things most people would not recall- I suppose they think it makes their story convincing. I thought that was odd the first time I heard him describe her outfit, her backpack etc.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Respectfully snipped Leila....entire post is spot on...

It was George's description of what Casey and Caylee were wearing that day that made me distrust his statement altogether. I think George's statement had two objectives.

1. to make June 16th the day anyone last saw Caylee, and make that day an unremarkable day - a day like any other day. If June 15th was the last day anyone saw Caylee, the next question would be what happened on June 15th that could have caused something to happen to Caylee? Of course, the focus would be put on the fight between Cindy and Casey on June 15th.

2. to make a point that whatever happened to Caylee happened somewhere else - somewhere away from the Anthony home. In other words........Caylee was fine when she left the Anthony home, so don't look at the Anthony home as the crime scene.

Why didn't GA/CA/LA want to take a LDT? Well GA/CA agreed to, it was LA who changed their minds. I always thought something was up with that. Why wouldn't they clear themselves??? When a person has nothing to hide, they hide nothing...JMHO

Then I believe in this physical altercation between CA/ICA...that is what drove ICA do to the unthinkable. If she left in a rage this night, do you really think this date would not be front and center on their minds.

I also don't like the statement from CA, where she tells ICA, I've already given you 30 days...your not getting one more day! When did CA give ICA 30 days. Does she mean when ICA left with Caylee to bond? If she does what date is that??? These people can't remember the last time they saw their daughter and granddaughter walking out of the home but GA can remember what they both wore the last time he saw them leave the home....is unrealistic to me. In as much as we've found out about CA, her controls on her family, I just don't think she wouldn't have looked for her earlier..On July 3, 2008 CA sends Lee to look for his sister...and she allows another 10-12 days to pass without speaking to Caylee??

We're missing a piece of information and I doubt we'll get it from this family. Which is why LE had such a hard hurdle to overcome. Getting bits and pieces from friends, strangers trying to put this puzzle together. ICA purposefully led them astray thinking Caylee would never be found...at least I believe that's what she was counting on...Another reason she got to spend 6 hours a day at her attorneys office, to get away from CA , the home and the spot where she put Caylee...JMHO



JMHO

Justice for Caylee

ETA:
Also GA added more to his last time he saw Caylee over time. He remembers he fed her breakfast before seeing ICA leave with Caylee putting her into her car seat...JMHO

 

[hornswoggled]

Caylee being with Cindy at the nursing home on June 15, 2008 is the only thing that can be proved. There's the date-stamped video of Caylee reading the book to great grandpa, the visitor sign-in sheet at the nursing home, and independent witnesses - nurses, who can verify that Cindy and Caylee were there.

After Cindy and Caylee left the nursing home, there's no verifiable independent witnesses. I do trust SP's statement that Cindy and Caylee had dinner at her home, but after that all we have are the statements of George, Cindy, and Casey.

I have often wondered if the detectives had not called the date stamped video of Caylee to Cindy's attention, how much longer the entire family would have insisted on the June 9 date. It would have been very interesting to see what other details of the day they would have offered up. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but it may have shed some light on many things. I have difficulty believing that Cindy forgot that she took Caylee to see GrandPa on Father's Day.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

This is the one conflict (both GA and CA) that I can never clear outta my head. At first I never could have thought the grandparents would have anything to do with whatever happened to Caylee but after observing their behavior, hearing the peculiar one liners they have uttered and witnessing all of their lies as well as supporting KC's lies, I can't outrule the possibility that the whole family devised the script after whatever happened happened.

I'm in the minority I know - I guess I'm lacking common sense - but something's not kosher with these people. GA has his secret that he gave KC permission to reveal if she felt she must. CA saying she didn't want to loose her husband. Knowing CA's perfection at all costs status and how she thinks she's above the law. By the way, where is the second car seat? The one that was in CA's car? Or if the one in KC's car is the one that was in CA's car, then where is KC's? Little things like that that should have an easy answer but have never been answered. It's the little things that don't make sense (and the big ones like cleaning the car instead of calling the police right THEN and there) that don't add up if you ask me.

It's impossible for me to think that GA and CA would never do this or that after following/observing how they behave. I wouldn't put anything past them to think they can outwit or control whatever it is they are trying to as far as influencing the outcome they want to see happen. It's hard for me to fathom why people have such faith in them and believe their versions of how the days of June 15, 16 and 17 unfolded. I don't get it. Peeps believe they told the truth about those days but lie about everything else? I don't think so.

Maybe they are the types that would throw their own daughter under the bus and not the other way around. It's possible. I can't shake the feeling that one of them is guilty of something too.

BBM - Last night I rewatched George's deposition in the civil case (a very uncomfortable way to spend time, but I'm a glutton for punishment). When Morgan was asking him about the "fight" the night of the 15th, I had to watch George's reaction to that question over again twice. Something is SO not right about that.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM - Last night I rewatched George's deposition in the civil case (a very uncomfortable way to spend time, but I'm a glutton for punishment). When Morgan was asking him about the "fight" the night of the 15th, I had to watch George's reaction to that question over again twice. Something is SO not right about that.

I know and GA almost always looks uncomfortable.

Before I found Websleuths I watched the Greta interview on TV which is probably one of the reasons (along with CA changing the cause of the smell of the Pontiac to rotting pizza) I googled for more information.

When watching GA and CA in their backyard with Greta, as usual CA took the lead, GA trailed behind. Before I knew anything else about these people, I thought that GA was hiding something. He looked like he was reliving whatever he already knew or holding something in. That was a distinct impression I remember having at the time.

And then there was the time when both GA and CA were on Larry King - I think it was the time right before Caylee's remains were discovered. GA looked so uncomfortable and I think CA was restraining him in some way. I was thinking 'just spill it GA, just spill it' as I thought he was bursting to tell the truth. Maybe I'd view it differently today but I remember having that impression at the time.

IMO they both know exactly what happened and Lee too. That means Mallory knows too and I wouldn't be surprised if Annie and a few others know the truth too.

 

[strawberry]

This is the one conflict (both GA and CA) that I can never clear outta my head. At first I never could have thought the grandparents would have anything to do with whatever happened to Caylee but after observing their behavior, hearing the peculiar one liners they have uttered and witnessing all of their lies as well as supporting KC's lies, I can't outrule the possibility that the whole family devised the script after whatever happened happened.

I'm in the minority I know - I guess I'm lacking common sense - but something's not kosher with these people. GA has his secret that he gave KC permission to reveal if she felt she must. CA saying she didn't want to loose her husband. Knowing CA's perfection at all costs status and how she thinks she's above the law. By the way, where is the second car seat? The one that was in CA's car? Or if the one in KC's car is the one that was in CA's car, then where is KC's? Little things like that that should have an easy answer but have never been answered. It's the little things that don't make sense (and the big ones like cleaning the car instead of calling the police right THEN and there) that don't add up if you ask me.

It's impossible for me to think that GA and CA would never do this or that after following/observing how they behave. I wouldn't put anything past them to think they can outwit or control whatever it is they are trying to as far as influencing the outcome they want to see happen. It's hard for me to fathom why people have such faith in them and believe their versions of how the days of June 15, 16 and 17 unfolded. I don't get it. Peeps believe they told the truth about those days but lie about everything else? I don't think so.

Maybe they are the types that would throw their own daughter under the bus and not the other way around. It's possible. I can't shake the feeling that one of them is guilty of something too.

BBM Could someone clarify what the question is about the car seat? I've seen this mentioned a few times but the references elude me. Or if it's OT, point me to a thread? How do we know the car seat from CAs car is missing? TIA

 

[OneLostGrl]

From Casey's own lips, she says she last saw Caylee on June 16. It was on one of the jail video visitation tapes that I heard these words from her lips. Of course, if Casey's lips are moving, she's no doubt lying. :banghead:

True. but I was talking proof. To me at least the last proof was the tape of fathers day.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I agree that KC's goose is cooked, but what I was trying to illustrate is that KC and the defense team have no qualms about throwing anyone and everyone under the bus. They've cast suspicions on the innocents in this case - innocents that I would count as victims - Jesse, Amy, Tone, Ricardo, Roy Kronk, etc.

Casey has thrown her own father and brother under the bus with the suggestion that they molested her. Cindy will be thrown under the bus at some point, simply because Casey could care less about her mother and the defense must show reasonable doubt.

Casey could state that she left Caylee with Cindy the night of June 15th and never saw her again, and let the evidence prove her wrong. It would be another attempt at blaming someone else and providing reasonable doubt.

I know that nobody likes this but- I am still not convinced that Cindy is not throwing Casey under the bus. I know that most likely Casey killed Caylee but I'm still just not 100% convinced yet.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Off topic:

OLG, I love reading your posts, because you are continually "spot on". You have really educated me while I have been here for this case. Thank you! :blowkiss:

LOL it's only cuz I come from crazy. I don't know much but crazy I know! :loser:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I do now. At first I didn't. I thought just because you're someone's sibling doesn't mean you're involved in their crimes or daily life once you are grown. I figured Lee had a full time job, was in his twenties, had a girlfriend, etc.

But after the high-five he gave KC and his performance at the memorial service where CA stood stroking his back, I thought he's :crazy: too. The other trait he has (Tracy M. has it too - unrelated I know) is that goofy laughing response to questions that aren't funny. That must be some kind of a coverup response one develops to stress or something.

What gets me the most about Lee is his lack of anger even when he's angry or should be angry (watch the video of him stealing the dogs water and the lady's sign, even as he's busting up the sign he's joking with the news guy) That boy there IMO has no real feelings. The only time I saw anything close to anger was when he almost ran those kids down in the driveway and even that wasn't real.

 

[countzero]

I know that nobody likes this but- I am still not convinced that Cindy is not throwing Casey under the bus. I know that most likely Casey killed Caylee but I'm still just not 100% convinced yet.

Yep, we are fence sitting together :wave:

 

[hornswoggled]

I know and GA almost always looks uncomfortable.

[snipped for brevity]
And then there was the time when both GA and CA were on Larry King - I think it was the time right before Caylee's remains were discovered. GA looked so uncomfortable and I think CA was restraining him in some way. I was thinking 'just spill it GA, just spill it' as I thought he was bursting to tell the truth. Maybe I'd view it differently today but I remember having that impression at the time.
IMO they both know exactly what happened and Lee too. That means Mallory knows too and I wouldn't be surprised if Annie and a few others know the truth too.

BBM

I agree about the Larry King show. I remember feeling so strongly during the interview that George and Cindy both knew some horrible truth and I even posted about it the next morning before Caylee was found. It was as if George especially could hardly stand to be in his own skin. And the look on his face was as if he were about to break. And yes, Woe, Cindy was restraining him. She clamped her hand over his as if to pin him down. It wouldn't have more obvious if she had clamped her hand over his mouth. So I have also wondered what they knew that night before Caylee was found.

 

[OneLostGrl]

This is the one conflict (both GA and CA) that I can never clear outta my head. At first I never could have thought the grandparents would have anything to do with whatever happened to Caylee but after observing their behavior, hearing the peculiar one liners they have uttered and witnessing all of their lies as well as supporting KC's lies, I can't outrule the possibility that the whole family devised the script after whatever happened happened.

I'm in the minority I know - I guess I'm lacking common sense - but something's not kosher with these people. GA has his secret that he gave KC permission to reveal if she felt she must. CA saying she didn't want to loose her husband. Knowing CA's perfection at all costs status and how she thinks she's above the law. By the way, where is the second car seat? The one that was in CA's car? Or if the one in KC's car is the one that was in CA's car, then where is KC's? Little things like that that should have an easy answer but have never been answered. It's the little things that don't make sense (and the big ones like cleaning the car instead of calling the police right THEN and there) that don't add up if you ask me.

It's impossible for me to think that GA and CA would never do this or that after following/observing how they behave. I wouldn't put anything past them to think they can outwit or control whatever it is they are trying to as far as influencing the outcome they want to see happen. It's hard for me to fathom why people have such faith in them and believe their versions of how the days of June 15, 16 and 17 unfolded. I don't get it. Peeps believe they told the truth about those days but lie about everything else? I don't think so.

Maybe they are the types that would throw their own daughter under the bus and not the other way around. It's possible. I can't shake the feeling that one of them is guilty of something too.

I think you know we are in the minority together on this one.

 

[marspiter]

I know that nobody likes this but- I am still not convinced that Cindy is not throwing Casey under the bus. I know that most likely Casey killed Caylee but I'm still just not 100% convinced yet.

I follow you on those suspicions and do respect them. I mean the last time a 3rd party (When did the computer store clerk see her by Walmart again I forgot?) saw Caylee she was with Cindy, and Georges story just seems fishy about knowing what they were wearing. Hey every story from this family is fishy. In fact the original date given by the family for when Caylee went missing was before father's day and then when the tape surfaced it was oh yeah well we last saw her the next day and she was wearing ect....ok yeah sure you remember that.

To me though given the strained relationship between ICA and Cindy. Looking at SP's comment about ICA and Cindy's relationship. I personally just don't see ICA going down as a martyr for Cindy. In no way shape or form do I see ICA doing that for anyone. If someone else did this ICA would have come clean well before those handcuffs clicked tight around her wrists. She would have said something to preserve herself imho.

Her lies and unwillingness to cooperate only point in one direction to me. Let alone all the evidence we have seen thus far.

 

[ynotdivein]

I know that nobody likes this but- I am still not convinced that Cindy is not throwing Casey under the bus. I know that most likely Casey killed Caylee but I'm still just not 100% convinced yet.

OLG, I'm glad you keep oke:-ing to get to the truth. But I just can't see CA, who raised two babies to adulthood, suddenly murdering her beloved grandbaby (whom she seems to have named after her own two children), dumping her down the block in wrappings pointing straight back to the A home, and pinning it all on KC--who in this scenario would have to be complicit, disappear for 31 days, send some very questionable texts about the smell of dead squirrels, yet party like it's 1999 and have no alibi that didn't dead-end at an empty apartment or an empty office at Universal... I just can't see how what we know could possibly fit with CA being the SODDI.

If Caylee's death was an accident while CA was watching her, what would have been the benefit to CA of lying about it? As a nurse, as a grandmother who seemed to love her grandbaby, IMO she would have called 911 immediately and begun life-saving efforts on her own. However, if Caylee died accidentally or through neglect while KC was watching her, and no one else was present, I could see KC attempting to dispose of her and enact some kind of cover-up, especially if she had been thinking of a life without Caylee for some time before.

I just can't see CA as the murderer here. Hope that all makes sense...

 

[ynotdivein]

I think you know we are in the minority together on this one.

Respectfully quoted...

I respect you both and just am wondering, because my mind can't seem to comprehend it--what is the scenario where GA and/or CA are responsible for Caylee's death and the ensuing cover-up? How does it fit with all the details that we know at this point? Or are you thinking that they are complicit in the cover-up but not the death itself? Help! (And TIA!)

 

[gngr~snap]

Yep, we are fence sitting together :wave:

Yoooo Hoooo!!! I'm right here behind you... and my bum is gettin sore!
CA was the last person seen with Caylee by anyone other than the family... just can't get past that fact. :truce:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM Could someone clarify what the question is about the car seat? I've seen this mentioned a few times but the references elude me. Or if it's OT, point me to a thread? How do we know the car seat from CAs car is missing? TIA

I'll try to find where we spent a good deal of time discussing that there had been two carseats, one in KC's car and one in CA's car (both Eddie B. iirc). CA told LE that the carseat that had been in her car was up in the attic. :waitasec: I don't remember hearing anything else about the other carseat that, as far as I know, LE never confiscated.

If it's true that they had two carseats, which seems logical so they wouldn't have to keep switching carseats back and forth, then why did CA remove the carseat from her car to the attic as of July 15? Afterall, Caylee should have been back home any day right? Iirc LE went up into the attic because that is where they found a box of newspaper clippings.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Respectfully quoted...

I respect you both and just am wondering, because my mind can't seem to comprehend it--what is the scenario where GA and/or CA are responsible for Caylee's death and the ensuing cover-up? How does it fit with all the details that we know at this point? Or are you thinking that they are complicit in the cover-up but not the death itself? Help! (And TIA!)

I know you're asking OLG but I'll give my versions of what may be but they may not reflect OLG's.

1. CA came home from her visit to Mt. Dora and eventually ended up in the pool with Caylee. KC came home late and the fight ensued and both of them lost sight of Caylee and she returned to the pool by herself.

2. KC left the house alone the night of the 15th. CA left for work the morning of the 16th leaving GA in charge of Caylee. Something happened to Caylee during this time involving the pool.

Because of their pride and unwillingness to face the truth that they had been at fault they developed the kidnapping story and put distance between when the accident happened and the time they reported her missing. GA said 'it was an accident that got out of control'.

3. Something happened to Caylee while in KC's care and GA helped KC so that she wouldn't have to tell CA that she was responsible for what happened to Caylee.

4. KC did the deed but had somebody else take it from there - whoever it was set the framework of the kidnapping so KC really didn't know the details of where Caylee had been dumped. But she may have provided the laundry bag because she took Caylee away from the house in it but somebody else assisted her beyond that point. AD said that she didn't think KC could handle that alone.

I've speculated that once the Anthony's knew Caylee was no longer alive, they could justify any further actions they took because it was their own business. CA is above the law. From there they would make it seem like whatever happened was not their fault. I've also wondered if CA liked to drink and since she was distressed may have gone overboard and messed up while looking after Caylee - only a theory. At the beginning, CA had a puffy look about her.