2010.07.26 Grand Jury begins

[Adalena935]

Do I understand correctly, that they can convene a GJ on the same matter as many times as they want? So, it's not a huge risk on the DA's part running it by a GJ?

Good question.

 

[GrainneDhu]

WTH???? What kind of legal grounds are there for Kaine to demand this information, and what do you guys think that he suspects here? That is just crazy, there is more going on in this case than we can even consider, I think.

WHERE is KYRON?

The implication is that TMH somehow squirrelled away or acquired $350K during their marriage.

Personally, I think it's a hail mary pass. The most likely source of the funds is her parents and they are not obligated to fund their soon-to-be-ex-son-in-law's legal bills.

 

[grandmaj]

OK we can talk about the GJ and the fact that the cousin was right about that. We cannot bring the rest of that upstairs until we have a ruling from Admin. Let's leave that discussion in the basement for the time being. Thanks. I will have it reviewed

That blog is never to make its way to this forum. Just FYI.

Let's stay on the topic of the Grand Jury.
Post falls at random.

 

[cluciano63]

I just want to know if she knows where Kyron can be found, or not. At least for right now, that is all I want to know.

 

[wildmala]

I think she talked to save her own hide and she knows a lot more than babysitting the baby. I have little doubt the grand jury will hand down an indictment on Terri. It may take a few weeks but not much beyond that is my best estimate.

Perhaps...I wonder if it could be that she was asked at the last minute to watch the baby for something that had come up. And when she went to meet TH, Kyron was with TH...that may be the tidbit she knows. ??? Perhaps it was to take Kyron to a Dr appt?

My head spins with how many twists there are to this poor child's story!

 

[Leila]

Screen capture of DD leaving the courthouse today. Her attorney, Chad Stavley, spoke briefly with the reporter. The man behind the reporter's head was with DD when she left the courthouse and is with her. Who is that? Her father perhaps?

 

[beach]

There are two ways to get an indictment for a crime (to go on to a trial). The DA may decide between two options. Often one is picked over the other for strategic reasons.

A preliminary hearing. Which is heard in public and a judge decides if there is enough evidence to move forward with a trial.

Or a grand jury. A grand jury is REQUIRED in all federal crimes. And it's held in private. The witnesses called may not even say that they have testified before a grand jury. And their testimony is under seal. Never to see the light of day. Unless of course if their testimony differs from their testimony in a trial. Then their testimony can be used to impeach them. If the grand jury agrees there is enough evidence or probable cause they issue a "true bill". And the "defendant" can then be arrested.

In many jurisdictions a defendant must appear in court so many hours after being arrested. Where then they make a plea.

ADDED: Also important to note that the defendant and their counsel may not be present at a grand jury. And no cross examination takes place.

I'm still seeing lots of questions in the purpose of a Grand Jury, so I'm bumping JSR's explanation, which is excellent.

That's my question too. I've never heard of a Grand Jury convening that has nothing to do with an indictment. Azlawyer, or any other lawyer types, can you help out here? Would they convene a Grand Jury just to get information out of someone? Seems like a large waste of time to do that, IMO.

By its definition, a grand jury is investigative by nature. The grand jurors are there to listen to witnesses testify and determine if there is enough evidence to issue a "true bill" (indictment). So, yes Aedrys, you are correct. The grand juror is investigating and listening to evidence to determine whether there is enough evidence to issue an indictment.

Like nursebeeme stated somewhere in this thread, an indictment can come down swiftly, if the grand jurors have heard enough evidence to vote and issue a "true bill", or it can take weeks or months.

Important to understand: I cannot stress enough the secrecy of grand juries. The only people allowed in the room are the grand jurors, the witness being questioned and the prosecutor questioning the witness. In my experience, not even the witness' attorney is allowed in to those proceedings.

These aren't mini-trials. By nature, they are more investigative. There is no defense attorney present, because there is no defendant. They are simply a tool used - sort of a checks & balances - so that some rogue prosecutor can't decide on their own that there is enough evidence to arrest a suspect and order them to stand trial.

HTH

 

[SmoothOperator]

Will someone point me to Houze's statement? The one that s "mincing" words?

 

[AZlawyer]

That's what it looks like. That this was solely to get info from Dede specifically. Not to get an indictment against anyone.

That's my question too. I've never heard of a Grand Jury convening that has nothing to do with an indictment. Azlawyer, or any other lawyer types, can you help out here? Would they convene a Grand Jury just to get information out of someone? Seems like a large waste of time to do that, IMO.

I'm still seeing lots of questions in the purpose of a Grand Jury, so I'm bumping JSR's explanation, which is excellent.



By its definition, a grand jury is investigative by nature. The grand jurors are there to listen to witnesses testify and determine if there is enough evidence to issue a "true bill" (indictment). So, yes Aedrys, you are correct. The grand juror is investigating and listening to evidence to determine whether there is enough evidence to issue an indictment.

Like nursebeeme stated somewhere in this thread, an indictment can come down swiftly, if the grand jurors have heard enough evidence to vote and issue a "true bill", or it can take weeks or months.

Important to understand: I cannot stress enough the secrecy of grand juries. The only people allowed in the room are the grand jurors, the witness being questioned and the prosecutor questioning the witness. In my experience, not even the witness' attorney is allowed in to those proceedings.

These aren't mini-trials. By nature, they are more investigative. There is no defense attorney present, because there is no defendant. They are simply a tool used - sort of a checks & balances - so that some rogue prosecutor can't decide on their own that there is enough evidence to arrest a suspect and order them to stand trial.

HTH

Thanks, Beach and JSR. I agree--it is extremely unlikely that this is an "investigative" grand jury in the sense of just generally investigating the situation. Those are used more for wide-ranging schemes with a group of people being investigated to see which of them, if any, should be charged--i.e., grand jury investigation into whether church officials participated in protecting child sex abusers.

In a broader sense, all grand juries are "investigative," because they are investigating whether a specific person should be charged with a crime. IMO DeDe's lawyer is just trying to downplay the situation.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I remember the saying, and I don't know where this comes from, that any prosecutor, good or bad, can indict a ham sandwich. So, I do take GJ indictments with a large grain of salt until I see the evidence.

 

[BeanE]

I just want to know if she knows where Kyron can be found, or not. At least for right now, that is all I want to know.

Yes, or anything about what happened to him. That's what's important.

 

[tehcloser]

Seeing these pics today...man DD and TH sure look alike.

 

[Mamietwo]

2pm...

Oh thanks very much for that RubyRed!

 

[joshiesmom]

My understanding is a GJ is called to see if the DA'S office has enought evidence to have a person arrested and chrage to go to trial. everything said before the GJ is sealed and no one can talk about what was said behind the closed doors. I forget how many people sit on the grand jury.

My brother was arrested BEFORE I testified in front of a grand jury, so I'm not sure that the GJ is needed in order to arrest someone.

In my personal experience, my brother had been sexually abusing me for years and I told a teacher about it when I was 14 years old. My brother, who is 5 years older than me, was arrested at the college he attended. I was interviewed multiple times by police with child protective services there, as well. I had a deposition taken. Then I got subpoenaed for the GJ. I testified and my brother was convicted of a class A felony & sentenced.

This was in Washington County (Beaverton... GJ was in Hillsboro) ~ adjoining county to Multnomah.

So, in my experience at least, the arrest came before the grand jury testimony and it never led to a trial but it did lead to a conviction. So... color me :waitasec: as to why some grand jury testimony leads to an arrest/trial and some leads directly to a conviction. I don't understand it at all!

 

[SmoothOperator]

I just want to know if she knows where Kyron can be found, or not. At least for right now, that is all I want to know.

If she did have such knowledge and shared with LE, DA, or GJ I would think we would be seeing immediate "swarming" of LE on the location that she gave

 

[GrainneDhu]

Right. GJ's in my state are continuous for a 1 year volunteer. But that doesn't mean they're meeting all the time. The DA can ask them to convene on a certain case or the grand jury itself can convene whenever it wants to on whichever case it wants to. You can bet this is for the Kyron Horman case. I'm not sure if 5th amendment rights apply to GJ questions. A person can't just go into GJ session and refuse to talk. Not in my state/county anyway. I've never heard of that. Acknowledging I might be wrong

ETA: continuous means they are available 24/7 for that one year volunteerism.

No one can be forced to incriminate themselves.

However, if the prosecutor feels that getting a specific person's testimony is important enough, they can be given immunity in exchange for their grand jury testimony. This means that anything they say in front of the grand jury cannot be used to incriminate them in legal proceedings.

If given immunity, then there is no legal way for a witness to refuse to testify.

 

[Dee10]

Wowzer, I missed a whole lot in the last few hours! This county doesn't play around!!!

 

[21merc7]

joshiesmom;

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I hope all is healing, and you are well.

Hugs!!!!

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I just want to know if she knows where Kyron can be found, or not. At least for right now, that is all I want to know.

I hope they asked her that. I would like to know at least what case she was asked about. Seeing how the media has treated Terri, I don't suppose she'll be talking to any reporters but we can hope.

 

[Mamietwo]

Seeing these pics today...man DD and TH sure look alike.

Boy, don't they? That's what we were saying last week. I can't get over the resemblances.