2010.07.26 Grand Jury begins

  • #1,341
I wonder how Terri paid the landscaper, considering Kaine never knew they had one?

:eek:

KH didn't know? How did TH get away with that? At the very least isn't a neighbor going to ask or inquire? When I had my housekeeper, someone was always asking for her number.

What did she say if he asked how her day was "oh I was landscaping all day".

Do you have a link that said he never knew they had landscaper? I just never heard that before.

Hugs,

Mel
 
  • #1,342
the grand jury is for locking in testimony and investigation.

how do you know the grand jury is not trying for a true bill for murder for hire?

Well, how would that implicate the landscaper in the equation? Immunity, I guess. If that is the case though, lots and lots of (speculated) immunity is taking place in this trial. And, for me personally, that isn't justice for Kyron. Not one bit.

I also see a lot of appeals taking place, and I don't like that one bit either.
 
  • #1,343
So can we assume that they think he's credible?

No. Not only is credibility never tested in a GJ because the witnesses are not cross examined. Bu Prosecutors will put forth evidence that they know would NEVER make it before a jury.

Under Oregon Law, a Grand Jury's job is to determine whether the evidence presented to it, if uncontradicted or unexplained at trial, is sufficient to support a conviction. ORS 132.390. Generally speaking, the rules of evidence apply, ORS 132.320, and national standards remind prosecutors to respect the panel’s independence and to not unduly influence its decisions.

http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/04jul/secrecy.html

IMO, the LS is a great example of how the GJ works. Alledgely the LS is being called as a witness to Terri's character. The LS is not being called to testify about character traits that make Terri who she is. He is being called specifically to talk about his allegation that Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine. They want the GJ to come to the conclusion that if Terri's is willing to hire someone to kill her husband, she is willing to harm to Kyron.

IMO, in a case about Kyron, the LS would NEVER be allowed to testify at trial. You cannot used an uncharged different crime to convict someone on another crime.
 
  • #1,344
If they're trying to paint a picture of Terri's character, does that mean Mike Cook will be called to testify?

I'll beat that the prosecutor won't be contacting Terri's attorney for a list of character witnesses to testify on her behalf.

IMO, these are not witnesses to Terri's character. These are witnesses to show that Terri is a horrible person which is not a crime.
 
  • #1,345
No. Not only is credibility never tested in a GJ because the witnesses are not cross examined. Bu Prosecutors will put forth evidence that they know would NEVER make it before a jury.

Under Oregon Law, a Grand Jury's job is to determine whether the evidence presented to it, if uncontradicted or unexplained at trial, is sufficient to support a conviction. ORS 132.390. Generally speaking, the rules of evidence apply, ORS 132.320, and national standards remind prosecutors to respect the panel’s independence and to not unduly influence its decisions.

http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/04jul/secrecy.html

IMO, the LS is a great example of how the GJ works. Alledgely the LS is being called as a witness to Terri's character. The LS is not being called

to testify about character traits that make Terri who she is. He is being called specifically to talk about his allegation that Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine. They want the GJ to come to the conclusion that if Terri's is willing to hire someone to kill her husband, she is willing to harm to Kyron.

IMO, in a case about Kyron, the LS would NEVER be allowed to testify at trial. You cannot used an uncharged different crime to convict someone on another crime.

:clap: Also LE has more evidence than we can possibly know about and the GJ is hearing it. Not us...We do not know what they have. Please remember that.

If there is anything I would bet on ...it is we will be hearing a lot and I mean a lot of THUDS when it all comes out.
 
  • #1,346
I'll beat that the prosecutor won't be contacting Terri's attorney for a list of character witnesses to testify on her behalf.

IMO, these are not witnesses to Terri's character. These are witnesses to show that Terri is a horrible person which is not a crime.

I think it's possible that the alleged MFH plan has something to do with the motive, not just character. Apparently she vented to him about her feelings for Kaine and if Kaine has anything to do with Terri's motive the LS might have something to relate about it.
 
  • #1,347
I think it's possible that the alleged MFH plan has something to do with the motive, not just character. Apparently she vented to him about her feelings for Kaine and if Kaine has anything to do with Terri's motive the LS might have something to relate about it.

BBM and I agree with you. I think it is necessary to look at possible motives of all persons involved, and that is going to require some digging up of everyone's past actions, and TMH has done some things that might lend to a motive. It was said about the MFH plot that she strung him along for awhile, so curious how this can be proved. I would think she'd only discuss this in person with him.
 
  • #1,348
I think LE has a lot more information on the MFH than is known to the public. They know they are up against one of Portland's best defense attorneys. I think they are bringing him in to help paint a bigger picture of TH background.

I believe the LS's story, what reason would he have to make it up. I don't know why he didn't go to LE when it happened, but I guess he has a reason for that...maybe he didn't believe her, or he just wanted out of the situation, or maybe he had personal issues that made him not want to open up a can of worms. I do feel he presented the information when he realized how significant his information may be to the Kyron case.

I am sure he has explained his reasoning to the GJ and they will decide if it has any bearing on their decision to indict or not to indict.
 
  • #1,349
Well, how would that implicate the landscaper in the equation? Immunity, I guess. If that is the case though, lots and lots of (speculated) immunity is taking place in this trial. And, for me personally, that isn't justice for Kyron. Not one bit.

I also see a lot of appeals taking place, and I don't like that one bit either.
I didn't say it WOULD implicate the landscaper. He didn't try to kill Kaine or take money for it that I am aware of. It would be Terri's action of trying to hire someone to kill her husband.

If Kyron were not missing that in itself would still be a crime.

I am all about justice for Kyron... justice in all forms... and justice for Kaine if his wife really did try to hire someone to kill him.

moo
 
  • #1,350
the grand jury is for locking in testimony and investigation.

how do you know the grand jury is not trying for a true bill for murder for hire?

How would Kyron's Mom, Kyron's stepfather, Kyron's 9 year old class mate, Kyron's teacher and Kyron's school principal have anything to do with Kyron's stepmother trying to hire someone to kill Kyron's father? :waitasec:

I see no reason why those people would have testified at the grand jury for a murder for hire charge. It has to be related to Kyron...so unless it's a murder for hire for Kyron instead of Kaine.... I think it's safe to assume that's not what it is.
 
  • #1,351
bbm

Yeah. That's about the time I started wondering if LE really had a grip on this case.

As far as landscaper goes, it's still just he-said / she-said. Unless they have some proof she made the offer, then his testimony is pretty worthless IMO. And if they had proof, there wouldn't have been that attempted sting.

Right, I agree.
It's all about what the GJ believes at this point. I'm sure not everyone who has ever testified before a GJ has been 100% honest. It is possible, however, that there could have been a witness to this plot, but I doubt it.
I'm still wondering why he waited so long to come forward... after Kyron disappeared. Why didn't he contact Kaine back then? Makes me think his credibility isn't very..... credible.
 
  • #1,352
How would Kyron's Mom, Kyron's stepfather, Kyron's 9 year old class mate, Kyron's teacher and Kyron's school principal have anything to do with Kyron's stepmother trying to hire someone to kill Kyron's father? :waitasec:

I see no reason why those people would have testified at the grand jury for a murder for hire charge. It has to be related to Kyron...so unless it's a murder for hire for Kyron instead of Kaine.... I think it's safe to assume that's not what it is.
I agree with you.... but the landscaper testified... could they be working on multiple charges? That is what I personally think could be happening.
 
  • #1,353
Whatever they are working on I wish they would hurry the heck up...maybe if someone was stuck behind the bars they might talk because it sure does not look like they are going to this way. I need a town where I can be sheriff. "No talky...here sitty in the jaily". ppppffffttttt. To heck with rights...lol.

I'm getting impatient can you tell?
 
  • #1,354
I didn't say it WOULD implicate the landscaper. He didn't try to kill Kaine or take money for it that I am aware of. It would be Terri's action of trying to hire someone to kill her husband.

If Kyron were not missing that in itself would still be a crime.

I am all about justice for Kyron... justice in all forms... and justice for Kaine if his wife really did try to hire someone to kill him.

moo

bbm

Exactly, that in itself IS a crime and rest assured she will do some time if indeed LE can prove it.

I've linked a prior case in Ore. where the defendant is pending 10 years. Not enough I know in this case with everything considered in our minds.

http://portland.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/pd042210.htm
 
  • #1,355
Whatever they are working on I wish they would hurry the heck up...maybe if someone was stuck behind the bars they might talk because it sure does not look like they are going to this way. I need a town where I can be sheriff. "No talky...here sitty in the jaily". ppppffffttttt. To heck with rights...lol.
I'm getting impatient can you tell?

O'T...LOL..I know a town where I would love to be sheriff too..JMO
 
  • #1,356
I agree with you.... but the landscaper testified... could they be working on multiple charges? That is what I personally think could be happening.


The GJ can definitely be hearing more than one case. We heard many different cases within many different days. Of course, none of them were about the same individual, as these two would be. These folks have their work cut out for them. My feeling is this GJ is only hearing about about those cases involving TH, and very possibly both the MFHP and the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
 
  • #1,357
  • #1,358
O'T...LOL..I know a town where I would love to be sheriff too..JMO

LOL...starts with 'S' and ends with 'atsuma'??? I'd vote you in if I could Em..:dance:
 
  • #1,359
Speaking of the GJ, isn't about time for the media to hit us with a bombshell as to who testified today?
 
  • #1,360
Speaking of the GJ, isn't about time for the media to hit us with a bombshell as to who testified today?

You know, I recall reading in some report something about something through August 11 and wondering what that date was all about. Do we know that they even convened today?
 

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