2010.07.26 Grand Jury begins

[Mamietwo]

I've never officially heard the name of the LS.

Also, is this the LS that was involved on 6/26 with LE, going to the H's house?

Or is this the other LS that said he was somehow contacted by TH and left messages for her and she did not respond. (I'm sure someone has the link?) =)

I would think the only LS that the GJ is interested in hearing from is the MFH guy. The other one was on television early in the beginning and said he had contacted her but she never responded back, IIRC. I don't have a link but I'm sure it's probably posted on this forum somewhere, way back when. So basically he had nothing to offer except that he was not "THE One"! LOL.

 

[BeanE]

I would think the only LS that the GJ is interested in hearing from is the MFH guy. The other one was on television early in the beginning and said he had contacted her but she never responded back, IIRC. I don't have a link but I'm sure it's probably posted on this forum somewhere, way back when. So basically he had nothing to offer except that he was not "THE One"! LOL.

That other landscaper had a radio interview here:

http://www.kxl.com/EXCLUSIVE-AUDIO--Landscaper-Acted-on-Lead-From-Ter/7620648

It's audio only.

 

[OptimusSubprime]

I also find it suspect that KH supposedly didn't know about this LS.

1. Landscapers are NOT cheap and TH had no income of her own.
2. This kind of work is not like buying a sweater on the sly and hiding it in the back of the closet. He's GOING to notice.
3. KH would come home at random times during the day and "work from home" whenever he felt like it. He doesn't happen to notice random people digging up his yard? Married for a long time or not, nobody's that oblivious.
4. KH made a point when he talked to media to specifically mention he "didn't know" about this LS. I find that to be a bit out of place and think it was specifically intended to distance him from this LS.

The news says "While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri." I'm guessing that "something" was some kind of hanky panky, not $10k for murder. Who benefits from him telling this story? First he gets back at TH for leading him on, then he gets his 15 mins of fame, but the the timing of his coming forward also makes me think he might have received more than that.

IMO there was no MFH plot.

 

[T-Rex]

I'm curious why mainstream media has i.d.'d Dede, and other friends of Terri's, but not the landscaper. Obviously they know who he is.

From a poster at KATU, on July 30: "I happen to know the poor landscaper that was thrown into the middle of this plot. ....He and his family are being hounded by media and he is fearful of losing his business."
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99594834.html#IDComment89686238

 

[Calliope]

I also find it suspect that KH supposedly didn't know about this LS.

1. Landscapers are NOT cheap and TH had no income of her own.
2. This kind of work is not like buying a sweater on the sly and hiding it in the back of the closet. He's GOING to notice.
3. KH would come home at random times during the day and "work from home" whenever he felt like it. He doesn't happen to notice random people digging up his yard? Married for a long time or not, nobody's that oblivious.
4. KH made a point when he talked to media to specifically mention he "didn't know" about this LS. I find that to be a bit out of place and think it was specifically intended to distance him from this LS.

The news says "While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri." I'm guessing that "something" was some kind of hanky panky, not $10k for murder. Who benefits from him telling this story? First he gets back at TH for leading him on, then he gets his 15 mins of fame, but the the timing of his coming forward also makes me think he might have received more than that.

IMO there was no MFH plot.

Agreed.

 

[citigirl]

I also find it suspect that KH supposedly didn't know about this LS.

1. Landscapers are NOT cheap and TH had no income of her own.
2. This kind of work is not like buying a sweater on the sly and hiding it in the back of the closet. He's GOING to notice.
3. KH would come home at random times during the day and "work from home" whenever he felt like it. He doesn't happen to notice random people digging up his yard? Married for a long time or not, nobody's that oblivious.
4. KH made a point when he talked to media to specifically mention he "didn't know" about this LS. I find that to be a bit out of place and think it was specifically intended to distance him from this LS.

The news says "While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri." I'm guessing that "something" was some kind of hanky panky, not $10k for murder. Who benefits from him telling this story? First he gets back at TH for leading him on, then he gets his 15 mins of fame, but the the timing of his coming forward also makes me think he might have received more than that.

IMO there was no MFH plot.

I am not quite following how the facts you present add up to "no MFH plot." To me, the fact that the Kaine didn't know about the LS means Terri could not have actually used and paid him for landscaping. Ergo, she must have contacted him for the MFH.

Or..are you saying Kaine is lying about not knowing about the landscaper?

(Not meaning to be argumentative--really want to understand your point)

 

[Chili Fries]

We don't know how much he actually landscaped at the Horman home. He could have just worked one day, Terri paid him 60 bucks then their relationship moved on to sexting, murder-for-hire plotting or whatever.

Also, I believe the landscaper only told LE about the MFH after being contacted by LE first. I think they found him when reviewing some of Terri's communications.

 

[pdxWOHM]

As far as we know, the MFH plot is simply he said- she said. I have no reason to believe (or not to believe) it happened. The landscaper could have been looking for his 15 minutes of fame (or he could be off his rocker), or it could be true.

I don't think anything like this would stand up in court without any other evidence (the MFH allegation).

 

[human]

what we do know is that Terri sent him sext's of some sort.

When you think of all of the things in the world that could have happened, the fact that she sexts the landscaper and MC is telling to me. It tells me that in fact she did that type of thing with the landscaper. That to me is not in question.

 

[Chili Fries]

I tend to believe he probably told the truth to LE. I would say that people don't generally admit to something like that when investigators show up at their door unless something really happened. I think that the tendency would be to admit it but try to downplay it if possible.

But, if he did tell them exactly what went on between him and Terri, and if it were just passing comments not an actual plot, I could see investigators making a mountain out of what is basically a molehill. I have an idea about how the prosecutorial mind works...when they are given even an inkling of something as criminal as a MFH plot they jump on it and take it very seriously, even if it were a few stray comments that never had any chance of ever coming to fruition.

 

[MarieFaith]

I tend to believe he probably told the truth to LE. I would say that people don't generally admit to something like that when investigators show up at their door unless something really happened. I think that the tendency would be to admit it but try to downplay it if possible.

But, if he did tell them exactly what went on between him and Terri, and if it were just passing comments not an actual plot, I could see investigators making a mountain out of what is basically a molehill. I have an idea about how the prosecutorial mind works...when they are given even an inkling of something as criminal as a MFH plot they jump on it and take it very seriously, even if it were a few stray comments that never had any chance of ever coming to fruition.

I really doubt that the MFH was nothing more than a few passing comments that could never have come to fruition.

I just can't see a judge signing off on a RO that would prevent a young child from being with her mother if it that's all it was. I know the burden of proof is not as tough as what is needed for a conviction in a trial, but still....denial of parental rights is pretty serious and, in my understanding, is not enacted on flimsy evidence.

 

[cluciano63]

Personally I don't think there was a "plot" per se, as that implies an actual plan, with a method of murder, a date, a time, etc. I think Terri made an off-the-cuff remark to this guy, probably hoping he would encourage/continue the conversation and he did not. He probably passed it off as a joke and she dropped it. Of course when LE comes knocking, this would all come back to him and he probably told it just the way it happened, and LE decided to take their chances and try the (failed) sting. Whether or not she had a relationship with this man, who the he** knows.

 

[BeanE]

Personally I don't think there was a "plot" per se, as that implies an actual plan, with a method of murder, a date, a time, etc. I think Terri made an off-the-cuff remark to this guy, probably hoping he would encourage/continue the conversation and he did not. He probably passed it off as a joke and she dropped it. Of course when LE comes knocking, this would all come back to him and he probably told it just the way it happened, and LE decided to take their chances and try the (failed) sting. Whether or not she had a relationship with this man, who the he** knows.

Great summary, C. I agree. Thanks for boiling it all down, and stating it so clearly.

 

[desquire]

Personally I don't think there was a "plot" per se, as that implies an actual plan, with a method of murder, a date, a time, etc. I think Terri made an off-the-cuff remark to this guy, probably hoping he would encourage/continue the conversation and he did not. He probably passed it off as a joke and she dropped it. Of course when LE comes knocking, this would all come back to him and he probably told it just the way it happened, and LE decided to take their chances and try the (failed) sting. Whether or not she had a relationship with this man, who the he** knows.

Good post. Kaine said she attempted to hire someone to murder him but we don't really know what transpired or where it might have fallen on the scale between "My husband is rotten, I wish he were dead" and "Here's $Xx and I'll pay you $XX more after you kill my husband and make it look like an accident." Your scenario is probably closest to the truth.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I really doubt that the MFH was nothing more than a few passing comments that could never have come to fruition.

I just can't see a judge signing off on a RO that would prevent a young child from being with her mother if it that's all it was. I know the burden of proof is not as tough as what is needed for a conviction in a trial, but still....denial of parental rights is pretty serious and, in my understanding, is not enacted on flimsy evidence.

Granting a restraining order has very, very little to do with the judge's evaluation of the evidence. It has everything to do with someone filling out a form, making allegations that fall within certain parameters and then a respondent who chooses either to challenge or not to challenge the restraining order.

My example? In 2005, a judge in New Mexico granted a temporary restraining to a woman who alleged she needed protection from David Letterman. She alleged he was using code words, gestures and eye movements in an attempt to persuade her to marry him.

Do you think that judge REALLY believed that David Letterman was doing any of those things? I don't. But I believe that the judge followed the law in granting the temporary restraining order.

Had David Letterman chosen not to challenge that temporary order, it would have remained in force for something like a year. Would that have made the allegations true? I doubt it.

David Letterman did choose to challenge the temporary order and it was stricken down within days.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1144343,00.html

KH chose to petition for a temporary restraining order. It wasn't the job of the judge to decide whether the allegations were likely to be true or not. All the judge does is evaluate the petition to make sure that it fulfils the provisions of the law in Oregon and whether the remedies asked for also fall within the scope of the law.

It was up to TMH to choose whether to challenge that petition or not. Had she chosen to challenge, there would have been a "show-cause hearing" at which KH would have had to show actual evidence to support his allegations.

TMH chose not to challenge the restraining order. What that means is up to the individual to decide.

 

[MarieFaith]

Granting a restraining order has very, very little to do with the judge's evaluation of the evidence. It has everything to do with someone filling out a form, making allegations that fall within certain parameters and then a respondent who chooses either to challenge or not to challenge the restraining order.

My example? In 2005, a judge in New Mexico granted a temporary restraining to a woman who alleged she needed protection from David Letterman. She alleged he was using code words, gestures and eye movements in an attempt to persuade her to marry him.

Do you think that judge REALLY believed that David Letterman was doing any of those things? I don't. But I believe that the judge followed the law in granting the temporary restraining order.

Had David Letterman chosen not to challenge that temporary order, it would have remained in force for something like a year. Would that have made the allegations true? I doubt it.

David Letterman did choose to challenge the temporary order and it was stricken down within days.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1144343,00.html

KH chose to petition for a temporary restraining order. It wasn't the job of the judge to decide whether the allegations were likely to be true or not. All the judge does is evaluate the petition to make sure that it fulfils the provisions of the law in Oregon and whether the remedies asked for also fall within the scope of the law.

It was up to TMH to choose whether to challenge that petition or not. Had she chosen to challenge, there would have been a "show-cause hearing" at which KH would have had to show actual evidence to support his allegations.

TMH chose not to challenge the restraining order. What that means is up to the individual to decide.

Very interesting. Thank you. This info still leaves me very surprised that a RO that would involve separating a young child from her mother would not be evaluated in another way than what you described.

Thanks for your post.

 

[BeanE]

Kyron Horman grand jury quiet - for now
Posted on August 19, 2010 at 7:15 PM

For weeks, a parade of witnesses came and went from the Multnomah County Courthouse.

Kyron Horman's parents testified before a grand jury along with others surrounding the seven year old's disappearance.

Since then, there's been little news from this secret panel.

In addition, a judge's order restricting any photography of witnesses coming and going from the grand jury room has expired.

So does this mean the Grand jury is done?

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html

 

[BeanE]

I've been wondering what's going on with with the grand jury. We had the whole 'Arrest is Imminent!' press conference media hype, followed by a number of witnesses, reports that many more witnesses were going to appear, then the DA putting out the new flier looking for more witnesses, and now

* crickets *

 

[BeanE]

As of August 9, the Monday before the presser, the GJ had heard from about a dozen witnesses.

Overall, the grand jury has heard from more than a dozen witnesses

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38608938

 

[BeanE]

On August 11, the day of the presser, this article stated they'd be back Thursday. But the order for no cameras had expired Wednesday. I don't think anyone testified Thursday or Friday, and I haven't heard of anyone testifying this week either.

The grand jury got Wednesday afternoon off after hearing other cases in the morning. They should start questioning other witnesses Thursday.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100490074.html