2010.11.03 Third party involved?

[LyndyLoo]

IMO,there is NO way AB is not involved in at least the coverup. Too much clean up going on in the house, and not seeing Zahra?

No way Jose did AB NOT have a part in this..THERE is NO Way he can be excused..I would indeed give him a pass IF he was a "Bread-winner" who had to travel and stay out of state or area for extended periods of time in order to do business..BUT..after reading about his allowing EB to verbally abuse a treat Z so badly..NOPE..AB is responsible for allowing use and abuse by his partner (EB) and then COVERED things up..Man oh Man... He is either a total whimp..or actually participated in this whole things from start to finish!!

BTW.. I only pity and pray for the BIO-Mom..SHE had nothing to do with this and yet has been ridiculed somewhat by some ...HUMMMMM NOT fair!! She tried..which is far more than AB did :furious: and AB ALLOWED bad things to happen to his daughter!!..

AB is just as responsible IF NOT more so..since he allowed, and enabled his sicko partner to use and abuse Z...:twocents:

 

[Pondering Mind]

Even if I could wrap my brain around the fact that EB was able to keep the 'worst' of the abuse of Zahra a secret, I still couldn't believe that she was just the *good mom* anytime AB was around. For the sake of discussion..say that the abuse escalated in the couple months before Zahra was killed and AB was somehow (hard not to roll eyes here) oblivious to everything...I CAN NOT see how Zahra could be killed, dismembered and disposed of without Adam knowing something..add to that the fire, ransom note, etc...ALL of that takes time...lots of time. The only thing that I can think of that could somewhat shorten that time is if it were to have been planned in advance. ..which I don't believe was the case. We have not heard that Adam was away from home for any length of time in the couple weeks before Zahra was reported missing and I would think that if he was..he would be shouting that from the rooftops...I know there is some question regarding whether he was away THAT morning and if so, for how long..but I'm talking about an extended period of time...

 

[butwhatif?]

It does to me also. And *if* he took part in the dismemberment and disposal, imo, he would have to be in agreement with the crime itself.

The demeanor of his 911 call, not being alarmed that Zahra was missing, and trying too hard during the 911 call to deflect everything onto the 'kidnapper' speaks volumes. In addition, seemingly being uninterested in the search for Zahra, or making any appeals to bring her home, also goes toward knowledge of what really happened. MOO

BBM-

I personally see the following as an appeal by AB:

AB: Uhm, I'd just like....If anyone can come forward with any information at all. Whether they've seen Zahra, seen my wife around with Zahra, without Zahra...just to come forward and call the Hickory police or their local law enforcement agency. And just come forward with whatever information they can.

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25360091/index.html

MOO

 

[Pondering Mind]

Now I might could believe that EB is primarily responsible for Zahra's death and if Adam was the type of man/father that could sit by and let the abuse happen (cause he MAY be slow, but he's not blind as a bat)..then, yeah..I could see him taking part in dismemberment and disposal of his daughter to cover up the fact that he ALLOWED it to go on in the first place...Yep, could see that happening..but that's the BEST possible light that I personally can paint him in...:sick:..moo

 

[panthera]

BBM-

I personally see the following as an appeal by AB:

AB: Uhm, I'd just like....If anyone can come forward with any information at all. Whether they've seen Zahra, seen my wife around with Zahra, without Zahra...just to come forward and call the Hickory police or their local law enforcement agency. And just come forward with whatever information they can.

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25360091/index.html

MOO

I'll agree, he's asking for someone with information to come forward, but it still seems, in my opinion, more answering the reporter's question than a heartfelt appeal, as he continues to look at her instead of the camera as one would do when appealing to the viewing public. Just MOO.

 

[Peliman]

Or Friday, when he "thinks she was there...it looked like she was there." :furious:

Yet when EB claims they were all at the Oktoberfest between 7-9pm, AB's claims of not seeing Zahra, gets jumbled doesn't it?

I solve algebra the long way.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

These pages are slow - sorry it took so long!

OK, found the link:

"-Elisa Baker said she, Adam and Zahra went to Oktoberfest on Friday, Oct. 8, from 7 to 9 p.m. and then went home and Zahra went to bed.

-When Adam Baker was interviewed by investigators on Saturday, Oct. 9, the day Zahra was first reported missing, Adam said he had not seen Zahra since Wednesday, Oct. 6."

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/dec/...ker-gave-details-zahras-dismember-ar-1155785/

How about this.....AB takes no direct role in dismemberment / disposal, but was told by EB of what had happened (her version), and that it was 'being taken care of'. The two of them did go to Oktoberfest that evening (witnesses)....although AB may have been unaware that they had been seen there or that EB would have to say that all three had gone to LE. So when he is asked by LE he sticks to original story that he hadn't seen Zahra in the last few days, which is true, he hadn't seen her since she died, but he does have guilty knowledge of what happened to her, and that there was a cover-up.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I'll agree, he's asking for someone with information to come forward, but it still seems, in my opinion, more answering the reporter's question than a heartfelt appeal, as he continues to look at her instead of the camera as one would do when appealing to the viewing public. Just MOO.

That felt to me like Adam was saying what he thought he *should be* saying at a "time like this" ....I wanted so badly to hear or see some real emotion from him..not because I wanted him to be in pain..I just wanted to believe him for Zahra's sake. The only thing to me that could make such a tragedy any easier to handle would be to find out that Adam is 'just like that'.. regarding things such as..his manner of speaking, lack of emotion or pleas, etc..just guilty of being a duffus dad with bad judgment..but innocent in the death, dismemberment and disposal of his daughter..<<<That's what I would love to believe, but I don't..nothing more than my :twocents:..fwiw..

 

[Carolina Girl]

Pondering Mind and all, I can not put a shining light on AB at all. I wish I could, but I can not. LE would be saying AB is not a suspect, to try to protect him from the masses, but they aren't.

I see some really great ideas here, I just am not convinced any of them happened. I think the clean up would take much more than a few hours, or even a couple of days.

I had a family member commit suicide and it took the licensed cleaning company 4 days to clean the room, before the Father could go back in the house. Truthfully it never occured to me until this moment, but I am not sure even now, I would like for them to go in there with luminol now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Of course not, they'll have to verify anything she says.

It seems they would have done most of that already.

I don't think they can verify what all she is saying is really the truth.



imo

 

[butwhatif?]

That felt to me like Adam was saying what he thought he *should be* saying at a "time like this" ....I wanted so badly to hear or see some real emotion from him..not because I wanted him to be in pain..I just wanted to believe him for Zahra's sake. The only thing to me that could make such a tragedy any easier to handle would be to find out that Adam is 'just like that'.. regarding things such as..his manner of speaking, lack of emotion or pleas, etc..just guilty of being a duffus dad with bad judgment..but innocent in the death, dismemberment and disposal of his daughter..<<<That's what I would love to believe, but I don't..nothing more than my :twocents:..fwiw..

But we have to remember there's been plenty of perps who showed a ton of emotion who were guilty as sin. Maybe fake emotion, maybe emotion out of fear of what might happen to them when they finally get caught.

A quick example of this is in a post by another Aussie member (sorry can't remember who right now) but it was in the 60 minutes episode with an expert on micro expressions.
I felt strongly that each of them were guilty before finally being arrested despite all their tears and emotion.

One size does not fit all and I have to keep reminding myself of that.
MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here is a link to the website. It ran Friday Oct. 8 through Sunday Oct. 10.

http://www.hickoryoktoberfest.com/

One thing that did stick out, however, was when EB said they went there that AB so quickly said they didn't. :waitasec: MOO

Has anyone come forward saying they saw Zahra, AB and EB there?

I think EB can spin a tale like a pro.

IMO

 

[LCoastMom]

While I can see a lot of thought went into this theory I'm not buying it.

Zahra was 10 going on 11 - supposedly brooding, recovering from a flu bug, sleeping / in bed - that would make AB not only a pizz poor parent, but neglectful too; to leave her home alone, all things considered. (They shouldn't leave a healthy child home alone.) Was she "grounded" because EF said she had been bad and sick that week, so not allowed out of her room to go with?

Why would the perps sneak into the house, dismember and remove Zahra and clean up after themselves, however poorly? That would make them very considerate perps. But why do it? Why dismember her? If they were only worried about covering for EF? Did EF put a deceased Zahra into the new bed for a couple days? Or did these perps also do the dastardly deed on Friday also? (Why did Zahra need a new mattress days prior?

This would have been a very tight time line; for these 2 (or more perps) to sneak into the house, do whatever they did, leave in the B/F's cars, come back, grab their own vehicle(s) and scoot out before AB came home? No one saw all this activity?

What if AB decided to go home after an hour of festing? Feeling guilty about leaving sick/brooding/sleeping Zahra who he hadn't seen since Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday?

How did AF know where the liner, bedspread, car-cover, prosthesis, gloves, unk piece of evidence and body etc etc was left?

Why was AB so confused re when he last saw Zahra on Saturday? We have heard Tues /Wed / Thurs / Fri - Sat. Not to mention the clothing given on her missing flyer being found in the house.

Several years ago, I starting watching a toddler in my home. Within a matter of weeks it became full time placement. For 10 mos I had her 24/6 to 24/7. One day her mom picked her up and never brought her back. The last time I saw her was the first Friday of Nov. between 5 and 5:30 PM. She was wearing pink peddle pushers, a matching tee and purple jelly shoes, her hair was in a pony tail. Now I didn't know when she left that she wouldn't be back the next day - so that isn't why I remember this and if I am going to the grocery store for 4 or 5 items I need a list cause I CRC (can't remember carp!). So how can AB be that confused about when he last saw his daughter?

Nope, good work on the theory, but I can't buy into it.

 

[panthera]

Has anyone come forward saying they saw Zahra, AB and EB there?

I think EB can spin a tale like a pro.

IMO

It seems not since early on LE was looking for anyone who could confirm when she was last seen outside the house and the only ones, IIRC, were the ladies in the furniture store on 9/25. MOO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I am looking for a veritable source who saw EB and AB there, I am sure we had one.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If EB killed and dismembered Zahra on her own I don't think Zahra's body was inside the home for any length of time the day she was killed. All she would need is some kind of saw.......like a larger hack saw etc.

If the death itself wasn't one that caused a lot of blood then most of the blood would be contained in the bathroom/tub where the dismemberment took place or maybe some in the kitchen if EB cleaned herself up afterward. It wouldn't take long to clean up the blood with Clorox. At least to the naked eye anyway.

Sorry to be so graphic but I don't think it is as hard to dismember a body as the doctors on some of the cable shows tries to make us think. It may not be a professional job like a surgeon may be able to do but it is doable imo. And we really don't know how the body was dismembered and what part of Zahra was left intact.

God bless her soul, it pains me greatly to even think about it.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It seems not since early on LE was looking for anyone who could confirm when she was last seen outside the house and the only ones, IIRC, were the ladies in the furniture store on 9/25. MOO

Thanks Panthera. I remember that.

I think seeing Zahra would be memorable to anyone that saw her because of her prosthetic leg and good grief her step mom is such a strange looking woman too so I think they would certainly remember seeing the two together.

I just don't believe much of anything EB has said other than telling them where to find Zahra's remains. I just think she has other ulterior motives about what else she tries to get LE to believe.

IMO

 

[Carolina Girl]

Well, that is it! We have no timeline as to when she died, when she was dismembered and when she was dispersed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am looking for a veritable source who saw EB and AB there, I am sure we had one.

Thank you for looking, Mrs. Norris

imo

 

[ynotdivein]

AB's "spin the bottle" answers to when he last saw Zahra may well be an attempt to cover his neglect of her. I don't think they mean that he "genuinely 100%" saw her "out of bed" anytime in the week prior to reporting her missing.

We know the neighbors didn't see her at the 21st NW house. No one other than the furniture store folks have apparently come forward to say they saw her alive after Sept. 25. Her letters to her young dance partner had not been mailed for however long.

I do think it's quite possible that Zahra was murdered much earlier than October 6-7-8, and that the monsters who did it had much longer than a few hours or even a few days to dispose of her and cover their tracks.

Could this have happened without AB's knowledge? I'm not prepared to say either way yes or no, but assume that he really was innocent of her murder/dismemberment/dispersal. He hadn't seen her in longer than he is willing to admit (because that would make him look like a bad dad). Much too late, he realizes he has been criminally inattentive to Zahra and that his "wife" and her cronies have done unthinkable things to his daughter right under his very nose.

Theoretically, might that help explain his zombie demeanor and lack of affect?

I don't know... the whole thing is so hard to wrap one's head around. I take some heart in the fact that we still have two sealed warrants.