2010.11.29 Hearing: RE: Defense's Experts Not Creating Reports

[debbie0604]

JB says, in the first part of the hearing, that he "didn't ask the experts to write a report", didn't want to waste their time with "redundancy". Well, I translate that to mean his experts didn't find anything valuable to the defense. Had there been something beneficial to the defense, I think Jose would have it in writing.

JB didn't ask "the experts" to write a report.... okay... well maybe I could believe that with some of the experts listed, but Werner Spitz? I'm not buying that. He HAS to produce a report. I know that for a fact.

And JB's bug people and Henry Lee (who by the way is NOT a forensic pathologist, but a "forensic scientist"? I wanna see Ashton tear into them. GO ASHTON!!! :woohoo:

 

[kaRN]

Thanks to The World According for posting this on another thread. Highlighting in red and bolded by me. Apparently Dr Lee understands reporting findings and also the concept that it's not the experts job to adjust the science to the circumstance. Well he talks the talk anyway. Walking the walk is the subject of it's own thread.

Henry Lee's bill
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Did Henry Lee recently bill the state, ONLY FOR COSTS, because he said on Nancy Grace he was doing this for free?December 15, 2008 Dr. Lee says he is indeed working Pro Bono:
"GRACE: Tonight, a stunning discovery allegedly of a trail of bones leading to a child`s skull. All of this just 15 homes away from grandparents George and Cindy`s home.

Straight out to special guest joining us right now, famed forensic pathologist Dr. Henry Lee. He is a forensic scientist and a consultant on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, thank you for being with us. Dr. Lee, what have you heard regarding a trail of bones leading to the child`s skull?

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO DEFENSE TEAM: That`s the first time I heard. We were in Florida yesterday. However, as you know, the coroner (ph) did not judge (ph) did not prove that. So the other defense expert, we did not have chance to observe, nor examine anything.

GRACE: Dr. Henry Lee, everyone, famed forensic scientist, is on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, you are saying the judge denied a particular motion. Was that to allow you and other defense experts on the scene while police were processing it?

LEE: Not exactly observe. Not really join examination. But many time, you know, like (ph) cases, most of time, they allow for defense expert to observe. Some of the time, we even join together, work on the searching (ph) of the remain or search of the trace evidence.

GRACE: To Sheryl McCollum joining us tonight, crime analyst and director of the cold case squad at Pine Lake Police Department. Sheryl, I find that highly unusual, that defense experts are at the initial processing of the scene? No way!

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: No way. With all due respect to Dr. Lee -- and I`ve trained under Dr. Lee -- no way are they going to be on my crime scene. They`re not necessary. They`re not needed.

GRACE: Back to Dr. Henry Lee, who, as you all know, is a famed forensic scientist on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, I`ve just got to ask you, you know, tot mom Casey Anthony was siphoning gasoline from her family`s car to fill up her own tank. How the heck are you getting paid? I`m sure you`re costing a pretty penny. Dr. Lee does not come cheap.

LEE: No, we did not get any pay for that and for -- I`ll say, you know, this country, as you know, everybody entitled a defense. And many forensic experts, we do pro bono cases and that`s our obligation to our profession. As an expert, we look at evidence, doesn`t matter inculpatory, exculpatory, we report (ph) as it is. I don`t think should be labeled as a defense expert going to just for defense. Many time, found more evidence, inculpatory evidence, than the police found. There -- you know, case history, case example, many time we`re allowed to work on the case together. Many of my cases, I let the defense expert observe. It`s nothing wrong.

GRACE: So Dr. Lee...

LEE: Nothing unusual.

GRACE: Dr. Lee, are you telling me that you are working on the case pro bono, for free?

LEE: Yes."

My question is how common is this really for someone like Dr. Lee to work pro bono on a case that does not have publicity?

Update_____Thanks to KrissKross
He is billing for his time!!! [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5847003&postcount=79"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Defense Files Motion to Seal Penalty Phase Discovery Documents[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5847003&postcount=79"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Defense Files Motion to Seal Penalty Phase Discovery Documents[/ame]
How is the defense getting by with this? It seems so blatant?

Tks again TWA
Back to me again and MO. If these scientists hired by the defense are prepared to forgo scientific method on a lawyers say so then that speaks volumes about their professional ethics. It's not normal practice though and I don't care how many lawyers claim it is. Don't believe me. Believe Dr Lee.

 

[ldh]

Maybe Lee is submitting charges for reimbursement in hopes they will be denied; consequently, he will jump ship. Just my own thought and opinion.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

If you will remember the bacne photos, Casey wears blah washed-out navy blue all day. Orange was probably a treat for her.

My eyes are still screaming, though.

Damn, I've fogotten that...I guess I'm used to seeing others in orange jumpsuits, either way, it wasn't a good color since it is one that DOC's use...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[joypath]

:twocents:Let's apply common sense:twocents:: WOULD anybody:waitasec: go running gleefully up to the witness stand and testify that the ppm of a specific compound was X.X when tested on A/B/2009 and THEN be willing to answer questions regarding the quality control of THAT particular batch run, the standards of THAT particular batch run, PROVE that they followed SOP, etc. and smile charmingly and say.:innocent: "just believe me":innocent:?
As the TJC (aka "the joint"), an accreditation agency that MANY "medical type folks" and intelligent consumers know, says....."IF IT AIN'T DOCUMENTED, IT WASN'T DONE!
:danceparaphrased of course, TJC are a classy bunch!)!:dance:


I'm NOT:snooty: going to testify from memory ALONE, my trusty case file is at hand and permission to refer has NEVER BEEN DENIED by a sitting judge:angel:, I doubt HHJP would deviate from COMMON SENSE and SOP!:banghead:

 

[beach]

Thanks to Jomo for posting this latest SA motion!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25996756/detail.html


OMG...I knew JB was unprofessional, but this email tops it all! He is so rude and patronizing!!! Love how he opens it by saying the "The goal is to work together, right?" and then starts boldly SHOUTING INSULTS! :tsktsk: Maybe I have been sheltered or just lucky, I dunno...., but I have never, ever worked with or for anyone who would type such a tacky, unprofessional email to opposing counsel.

 

[Just Jayla]

Damn, I've fogotten that...I guess I'm used to seeing others in orange jumpsuits, either way, it wasn't a good color since it is one that DOC's use...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

She may wear orange (or stripes would be hilarious) once she is convicted-IIRC, prisoners have color coded jumpsuits-Since KC is not a max security/death row/lifer, the blue may be temporary.

 

[cyberborg]

Sounds like shady tricks to me. No reports, no discovery. If they don't reduce it to writing, they don't have to turn it over. Only someone who was trying to hide something or "get one over on" would do something like this. If they had something helpful to ICA, they would have written a report, faxed it to the news outlets and called a press conference. JMO.

BBM.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Just Jayla]

Sounds like shady tricks to me. No reports, no discovery. If they don't reduce it to writing, they don't have to turn it over. Only someone who was trying to hide something or "get one over on" would do something like this. If they had something helpful to ICA, they would have written a report, faxed it to the news outlets and called a press conference. JMO.

What about the education LKB gave us on bench notes? Don't (forensic) defense witnesses keep those?

 

[redkatrampant]

Thanks to Jomo for posting this latest SA motion!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25996756/detail.html


OMG...I knew JB was unprofessional, but this email tops it all! He is so rude and patronizing!!! Love how he opens it by saying the "The goal is to work together, right?" and then starts boldly SHOUTING INSULTS! :tsktsk: Maybe I have been sheltered or just lucky, I dunno...., but I have never, ever worked with or for anyone who would type such a tacky, unprofessional email to opposing counsel.

Man, I am so glad that Mr Ashton is NOT playing along.

 

[redkatrampant]

What about the education LKB gave us on bench notes? Don't (forensic) defense witnesses keep those?

That and I am just not buying that NONE of these witnesses have any notes.
Nope, not at all.

 

[cyberborg]

Thanks to Jomo for posting this latest SA motion!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25996756/detail.html


OMG...I knew JB was unprofessional, but this email tops it all! He is so rude and patronizing!!! Love how he opens it by saying the "The goal is to work together, right?" and then starts boldly SHOUTING INSULTS! :tsktsk: Maybe I have been sheltered or just lucky, I dunno...., but I have never, ever worked with or for anyone who would type such a tacky, unprofessional email to opposing counsel.

JB makes it sound an awful lot like the Defense will be playing 'defense' and just trying to deal with everything the Prosecution has to throw at them ... since they don't have a theory or ... that compelling story that will all make sense.

Sure they will throw some stuff out there both to confuse the Jury and float some other options but it sounds like the Defense still amounts to ...

Nada. I got nothing. You got anything JB?

 

[cyberborg]

What about the education LKB gave us on bench notes? Don't (forensic) defense witnesses keep those?

Yes, exactly!! LKB didn't just want the reports but wanted the bench notes to see how conclusions were derived, what process was followed, chain of custody, etc, etc.

I'd suspect that Defense experts are held by the same standard ... for them to be credible.

Also, I am sure that HHJP asked for "notes and photos" since there were no reports available and that JW on HLN said that that was worse than having reports since it bordered too closely on work product.

Bottom-line is, I don't think the defense experts are disagreeing much with the conclusions of the Prosecution ... that's why there is no notes or reports ... the Defense don't plan to use it since it does NOT help ICA at all IMO.

 

[Gaia713]

Riiiiiigggghhhhtttt.

Depositions will be tricky for them if that is not the case-if SA discovers reports somewhere, the experts will be impeachable.

Experts either take notes or record as they examine things. Are those considered work product. I don't think so as prosecution has to turn of over cops notes and recording so the defense should have to do it also. I don't think Baez is smart enough to remember everything with no reports. In fact, he is so smart that he referred to Spitz as a Forensic Anthropologist and Kathy Reichs as a Forensics expert. It's common knowledge that Kathy Reichs is a Forensic ANTHROPOLOGIST, but apparently Baez doesn't know that. He boggles my mind. My granddaughter is smarter than he is. Is this his way of trying to get TWO experts in the same field on his side? IMO the man has no ethics whatsoever.

 

[Gaia713]

Thanks to Jomo for posting this latest SA motion!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25996756/detail.html


OMG...I knew JB was unprofessional, but this email tops it all! He is so rude and patronizing!!! Love how he opens it by saying the "The goal is to work together, right?" and then starts boldly SHOUTING INSULTS! :tsktsk: Maybe I have been sheltered or just lucky, I dunno...., but I have never, ever worked with or for anyone who would type such a tacky, unprofessional email to opposing counsel.

Was anyone else as angry at that email as I was. To think someone is paying this man to teach pretrial to students. I have NEVER seen or heard someone as unprofessional as he is. Uneducated, rude, stupid, and doesn't shut up.

 

[Gaia713]

I understand, Karn, my blood boils each and everytime I see ICA with that smile on her face. She still doesn't get it, does she? Seems to me, Baez is playing her hand. She will never admit to wrongdoing...BTW, I wonder if CA picked ICA's shirt yesterday...she wears orange all day long in her prison garb, what the hell was she thinking giving her an orange blouse to wear! Although, I admit, ORANGE is the color ICA will wear for the rest of her sorry life....so she may as well get used to it...LMAO...sorry for that off topic sentence..

I hate that Baez is playing foul, he's not honest, to say the least. He thinks this case is going to make him, I believe it will break him. His smug attitude will bite him in his butt, one day..I just hope it's the day those jurors vote, "guilty as charged" on the capital murder charge...I think he might feel he's going to win, which will bring no justice to Caylee. I hate that defenders try their cases as a win or loose, instead of justice being served. Stranger things have happened when jurors deliberate. I just hope those who sit on this one have the victims justice in mind. If ICA gets off, what an injustice that will be to Caylee, as if she hasn't been disrespected enough...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

Baez is one of those lousy defense attorneys who think that saving her from the death penalty is a win for him. The only true win is if she walks free, which I don't think she will do. I don't think Casey would be happy with LWOP either.

BTW, why can't Baez keep his hands off her. HE is always touching her and I have NEVER seen a lawyer do that with a client unless they were terribly distraught. And Casey is certainly NOT distraught. This is all a game to her.

 

[kaRN]

OMG our Tuba predicted this back in July on the Forensic Atrology thread! :dance:
I don't know how to quote a single post, but here's the thread and page. It's 3 posts down. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108752&highlight=Anthony+marital+problems&page=2

'This chart also foretells expert defense witnesses will fail to serve according to ethical standards we expect because they are found in House 6 but in the Sign on House 7: not looking for fact and truth but only to undermine the prosecution's case. See Jupiter ruling expert witnesses of House 3 conjunct Uranus in Aries in House 6 of services performed for defense but not for the public good.'

Justice for Caylee is in the stars. Life is good!! Tuba has been spot on since day 1 by the way for those who have never read that Forum. :woohoo:Thank-you Tuba!!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Oh Baez, seriously? More signs of masochism from the defense....really, it's getting a little old.

 

[debbie0604]

Was anyone else as angry at that email as I was. To think someone is paying this man to teach pretrial to students. I have NEVER seen or heard someone as unprofessional as he is. Uneducated, rude, stupid, and doesn't shut up.

Yes I was. And I agree with you. IMO, it's all part of the game....I think he really likes to try to play Mr. Ashton. IMO he's coniving in that way...plays his little tricks to try to push Mr. Ashton's buttons and then sits with that "cheshire cat" grin (and that's saying it nicely, if you know what I mean). Totally unprofessional.

 

[debbie0604]

Baez is one of those lousy defense attorneys who think that saving her from the death penalty is a win for him. The only true win is if she walks free, which I don't think she will do. I don't think Casey would be happy with LWOP either.

BTW, why can't Baez keep his hands off her. HE is always touching her and I have NEVER seen a lawyer do that with a client unless they were terribly distraught. And Casey is certainly NOT distraught. This is all a game to her.

BBM... I TOTALLY AGREE. I have NEVER seen a lawyer do that with a client either. As I said before, totally unprofessional. I think his actions in court with KC and toward the SA have been totally unprofessional. JMO