2010.12.30 Motion to Exclude Unreliable Evidence (Plant or Root Growth)

[AZlawyer]

This is a good motion, assuming the facts are true. Which, unfortunately, we can't assume. I will wait to see the SA response before reaching any hasty conclusions.

 

[Aedrys]

From the link (thanks, Lanie! :seeya

"David W. Hall, Ph.D., Forensic Botanist David W. Hall, Ph.D., holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Botany from the University of Florida. He has a Master of Science Degree also in Systematic Botany from Georgia Southern University, Bachelor of Science in Biology. He has founded an environmental and forensic consulting firm headquartered in Gainesville, Florida, where he specializes in forensics and plant identification. He is the author of ten published books with several more in preparation, and the author of over 135 articles."

Aaaaaaaaaaand THIS is what he left out. Sheesh! So the guy is a pioneer in his field for crying out loud, not some doofus off of the street who is obssessed with plant growth. Way to leave all of this out, Baez. Wow, I am ashamed that he had me going for a bit there *headdesk*

 

[sleutherontheside]

A "report" is a "report" is a "report" .....unless you "purport" that it is nothing more than an "addendum" of "sorts". Especially when dealing with the subject of "hort" (-iculture)
(or a casual video conversation with a guy named "Mort")

JMO

 

[RainyGirl]

I can't wait to see the Prosecution's response to this motion. I'd wager it's gonna be a gooooood one! Just my take on it, but I'm not going to lose a minute's rest on this particular defense motion. "It ain't over til it's over"......and that goes for motions too.
Peace!! XOXO

 

[Aedrys]

So is all the prosecution going to have to do is present Dr. Hall's credentials and then it's motion denied? I don't think you can author as many books and articles as him and not know what you're talking about.

 

[watergirl]

A "report" is a "report" is a "report" .....unless you "purport" that it is nothing more than an "addendum" of "sorts". Especially when dealing with the subject of "hort" (-iculture)
(or a casual video conversation with a guy named "Mort")

JMO

*snort snort*

 

[JSR]

A "report" is a "report" is a "report" .....unless you "purport" that it is nothing more than an "addendum" of "sorts". Especially when dealing with the subject of "hort" (-iculture)
(or a casual video conversation with a guy named "Mort")

JMO

*snort snort*

Ditto

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

He still has to argue the motion in court. We all know ahemmm uhhhhh ahemmm this is not one of his stronger ahemmmm uhhhhhh...Nevermind

 

[Lanie]

Aaaaaaaaaaand THIS is what he left out. Sheesh! So the guy is a pioneer in his field for crying out loud, not some doofus off of the street who is obssessed with plant growth. Way to leave all of this out, Baez. Wow, I am ashamed that he had me going for a bit there *headdesk*

LOL, in the motion, Baez refers to him as an 'alleged biologist' and even Jane Boch calls him a Forensic Biologist in her REPORT.

It seems like Baez has something personal against almost everyone in this case the way he terms things. I sincerely doubt Dr. David W. Hall's credentials are in question, but let's refer to him as an alleged biologist. Lol, I can think of one person who is an allegedly something, though.

More on Dr. Hall:

http://www.ifri.fiu.edu/FBotanylecture.htm

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/bioassess/docs/plants/plant_id_tips_bcmtg_sept08.pdf

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...FpbnxuYXBsZXNmbnBzfGd4Ojc2NjA4NWQyOTU2NzFiM2M

http://www.myimagehosting.com/u/11850/9972/91564.pdf
This one is a good one. Quote:
"Dr. Hall has conducted forensic botany and other plant related training at Miami-Dade, the FBI Academy at Quantico, and throughout the United States."

Yeah, this guy sounds like a total goober, can't imagine why the State hired him. NOT.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Interestingly enough...Dr. David W. Hall co-authored and article with Jane Bock regarding plant materials in solving crimes.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm and oooooops.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1311237

 

[eaglemom]

Considering the SA sent the original samples from the car to Dr. Hall back in Oct of 2008 ; I can't imagine why they would change that practice - especially as they sent samples from Suburban Drive to the FBI from various strata around the burial site. Not to mention if Dr. Hall 'wrote the book' on the subject of forensic botany so to speak... and that it is to him who most experts in the field most refer - it will be interesting to hear the testimony in the hearing

MOO

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://aquaticcommons.org/2065/1/coastalveg.pdf

Regarding Florida plant species and growth rates etc....

 

[Itsy]

I find it very suspect that some of the Frye references in this motion refer to sex offenders and child abuse within the home environment.

WTH does that have to do with plant growth?? pg 5 at link listed.

Very shady. I doubt this possible attempt at slipping in info will go unnoticed.

BBM - Yeah, me too - what is up with that part??? It looks as if it was part of another motion (?) that accidentally got pasted smack in the middle of this one!? :waitasec:

 

[Itsy]

And just how was the state supposed to "preserve" the plant evidence? It is (was) a live plant and once uprooted cannot be expected to remain in the same condition for long. Even refrigeration wouldn't preserve a plant for a very long length of time, doing nothing would cause it to wither and die & freezing it would assure that it would shrink.

 

[Just Jayla]

I find it very suspect that some of the Frye references in this motion refer to sex offenders and child abuse within the home environment.

WTH does that have to do with plant growth?? pg 5 at link listed.


Very shady. I doubt this possible attempt at slipping in info will go unnoticed.

Follow my Baez logic (oxymoron alert!) here....

-Offenders and abusers caused his client to murder Caylee
-The abuser in KC's home was George
-George is like a parasitic plant, grows on you slowly and sucks the life out of you
-Plant growth was at the crime scene

E Voila! George abused KC and maybe killed Caylee, but since equating a human to a plant has never been an accepted argument in court, Baez has to Frye it.

Yep. Dumb. Just like the motion.

 

[LambChop]

In Dr. Bock's report isn't she just addressing the leaves and ground materials that she observed and what was gathered from the crime scene. Isn't Dr. Hall going to testify about the root growth?

 

[Just Jayla]

And just how was the state supposed to "preserve" the plant evidence? It is (was) a live plant and once uprooted cannot be expected to remain in the same condition for long. Even refrigeration wouldn't preserve a plant for a very long length of time, doing nothing would cause it to wither and die & freezing it would assure that it would shrink.

ITA-You have a better chance of preserving Ted William's head :waitasec:

IIRC, the FBI and the state were able to preserve evidence for the defense that they had not thought they were going to be able to preserve (DNA, hair stuff?), so I believe they have gone out of their way to make sure that discovery and fairness were "preserved" when possible. Furthermore, JB was granted access to the evidence and the crime scene fairly early on (HHJS gave him access to a private land-owner's parcel without the landowner's consent or presence), so this is bogus.

 

[Itsy]

Follow my Baez logic (oxymoron alert!) here....

-Offenders and abusers caused his client to murder Caylee
-The abuser in KC's home was George
-George is like a parasitic plant, grows on you slowly and sucks the life out of you
-Plant growth was at the crime scene

E Voila! George abused KC and maybe killed Caylee, but since equating a human to a plant has never been an accepted argument in court, Baez has to Frye it.

Yep. Dumb. Just like the motion.

Ohhhhhhh, now I understand! TY, lol :lol:

 

[drip~drop]

This motion definitely needs some discussion and research. The defense is claiming that Dr. Hall doesn't know what he's talking about, based on answers during his depo.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6872657...e-Unreliable-Evidence-of-Plant-or-Root-Growth

MM

I was like wth until I got to the part that Dr. Hall is on the pros. side.
Now we all know why. Does this defense think they're going to get any and all experts shut down? LOL (lots of love or lauging out loud or lean on larry....)
MOO:cow:

 

[sleutherontheside]

Follow my Baez logic (oxymoron alert!) here....

-Offenders and abusers caused his client to murder Caylee
-The abuser in KC's home was George
-George is like a parasitic plant, grows on you slowly and sucks the life out of you
-Plant growth was at the crime scene

E Voila! George abused KC and maybe killed Caylee, but since equating a human to a plant has never been an accepted argument in court, Baez has to Frye it.

Yep. Dumb. Just like the motion.

Jayla, I'll see your "logic" and raise you....

JB "possibly" using veiled inferences that may or may not make it to the penalty phase. Why??? To possibly keep alive a dormant "theory"?

Cut and paste error, lapse in judgement, or another example of "who knows what"???

All I can say is that IMO, while the Frye cases cited may apply from a mechanical perspective, they do not apply from a relative perspective.

I am sure many of our lawyers and law professionals could easily cite appropriate and relevant case law that more closely relates to the motion at hand.

I suspect that the case law listed was done so with purpose. But that is nothing more than an opinion.