2011.02.10 Defense Accuses Detectives of Destroying Evidence

[KenoshaKid]

Ok, so if JB is trying to say the smell came from the garbage bag, and in said garbage bag were paper towels with grave wax on them, isn't that NOT in his best interest? Or am I missing something here? :waitasec:

 

[Aedrys]

BBM-So it will be fantastic when GA backs CA up with his even more expert-y expertness. While CA will claim she has never smelled decomp from a hot car trunk (thanks for handing her that one, JB, now she'll gnaw on that for a while, like a dog on a bone)...GA cannot claim the same. According to him, he has approached bodies that were in the good ole fashioned state of decomposition-no refrigeration, no preservation.
And he said over, and over and maybe over agin that he knew, KNEW, that was the smell of human decomposition. He got his little nose right up in it. He prattled it off to the detectives and special agents with very little reservation.
...which is why the defense might have to take GA down a few notches in the name of mitigation....

ITA, and I am cracking up at expert-y expertness. That is awesome! :floorlaugh:

 

[doogiesgirl]

The thing is, before CA or GA or YM or anyone else ever said anything, ICA herself complained in her texts to Amy that her car smelled of death, of decomposition. She said there was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to her car. That was ICA's own pronouncement on the source of the terrible smell in her car. If it had been caused by a bag of forgotten garbage in the trunk she would have found it during the search that located the phantom squirrel, blamed it on that, and got rid of the bag. Once again the defendant's own words, her busy typing fingers, have nimbly (and callously) pre-empted and rebutted any explanation for the smell that the defence might offer the court.

Eww......that's good! :bowdown: Your post is a great example of why I cannot wait for the trial. LDB & JA & FG, all of them are going to be putting these little details together for us, and then pointing out what the sum of the details leads to = BAM!!! KC caught in the trap!!!

Oh I wish May would get here.

JMHO

 

[strawberry]

WE haven't seen this actual motion yet, have we? Hopefully today! And hopefully the State will file a response! I also want to see JAs response to the stain....

 

[doogiesgirl]

BBM, This is what drives me crazy. Jurors are not stupid. Why is JB still fixated on the smell, and precise scientific evidence regarding the smell, and the dogs? When the chance of challenging the smells literally went out the window when the child's remains were found?

Early on, when the smell and finicky forensic evidence in the car trunk was the only real evidence that Caylee was dead, it was a viable avenue to challenge. But know? There is a dead body in play here. It has been in play here for 2 years now. As I said jurors are not stupid. All they will need is the proof of a dead Caylee and CA's 911 comment "It smells like there has been a dead body in the car!" Both of these are already coming in at trial and will be almost impossible to challenge. At this point the smell itself, the garbage, the stain, the cars contents. It's all just corroborating evidence. And there is sooo much of it. Challenging one little piece on some obscure ground will not do what he needs. (Heck nothing really will, he's just to self absorbed to realize that).

He is a desperate man.

I think he knows this ship has sunk, but he keeps going through the motions, (in the literal & figurative sense) :giggle:

:cow:

 

[ohiogirl]

I know the defense could just be lazy or stupid, but I always have hope there is some sort of strategy in their madness. So my speculation is they were recently thwarted in their attempts to get the air sample thrown out.

Imo, JB has finally realized that he will have to actually present a defense. Fooling around for so long, he is way behind.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

We also can't forget Mr. Tow Yard Guy who also stated the car smelled just like the one did that someone had committed suicide in and his body was in there for a few days.

I don't know who JB is trying to fool. How much evidence did he choose not to get? All the documents he could have gone to the court house to pick up but didn't . . . all the records he chose not to go get from MN . . . the documents he never asked the State for, but whined they didn't give him . . . not finishing the car examination . . . deciding not to examine the dump site after throwing a tantrum about it . . . the depo's he took his sweet time doing, if he even did them at all -- but he wants us to believe he actually wanted to test the garbage? Silly goose. Besides, why didn't he test it back then? I'm sure after the reports came out from The Body Farm regarding the garbage NOT smelling the same as the decomp, he could have brought in his own "experts", right? Except that he knew what they'd say. Or requested a certain preservation of said garbage? I don't understand how, after all this time, he can complain they didn't preserve it a certain way when he didn't seem to care back then . . . .

:jester:

We all better start working on our ab muscles now to prepare us for trial -- and don't forget your waterproof monitor covers! :silly:

 

[Intermezzo]

And I'll trump both of you with a recording of a "decomp expert" (CA) telling 911 the car smelled like a dead body! (Family testimony is easier to understand than expert testimony and scientific tests.)


This is one of those things that JB is trying to get kicked due to a technicality. There is the odor in the car and a bag of "garbage". He isn't saying the smell came from the garbage, only that garbage sometimes smells. And that by letting it dry, the justice system prevented defense from testing it to see if it is the source of the smell. And the defense does have the right to independently have it tested if they think that it might in any way offer a different explanation than the prosecution offered. IOW they are trying to capitalize on their inability to test some evidence that probably wouldn't have helped them anyway.

Will he get it? Who knows. If the motion was filed timely. Depending on the judge's determination. Maybe, maybe not. Will it matter, lol IMO no. There is so much more convincing evidence than the air test.

aahh Yes, nothing like testimony from an expert, Nurse of Decomposition

 

[Aedrys]

We also can't forget Mr. Tow Yard Guy who also stated the car smelled just like the one did that someone had committed suicide in and his body was in there for a few days.

I don't know who JB is trying to fool. How much evidence did he choose not to get? All the documents he could have gone to the court house to pick up but didn't . . . all the records he chose not to go get from MN . . . the documents he never asked the State for, but whined they didn't give him . . . not finishing the car examination . . . deciding not to examine the dump site after throwing a tantrum about it . . . the depo's he took his sweet time doing, if he even did them at all -- but he wants us to believe he actually wanted to test the garbage? Silly goose. Besides, why didn't he test it back then? I'm sure after the reports came out from The Body Farm regarding the garbage NOT smelling the same as the decomp, he could have brought in his own "experts", right? Except that he knew what they'd say. Or requested a certain preservation of said garbage? I don't understand how, after all this time, he can complain they didn't preserve it a certain way when he didn't seem to care back then . . . .

:jester:

We all better start working on our ab muscles now to prepare us for trial -- and don't forget your waterproof monitor covers! :silly:

That's a good point. If he wanted it preserved, shouldn't he have asked for it to be preserved? I wonder if that's how HHJP is going to respond, did you bother to ASK Mr. Baez? Or does he really believe LE was just supposed to do that without him asking? Any of you legal eagles know?

I did ask this in the lawyer thread too. But if any LE types are here, what is the procedure for this? Did Baez misunderstand procedure or just not bother to ask? It seems just like when he whines about media overexposure when he is the one constantly reporting the case to the media! You can't have it both ways, Mr. Baez!

 

[Intermezzo]

BBM-So it will be fantastic when GA backs CA up with his even more expert-y expertness. While CA will claim she has never smelled decomp from a hot car trunk (thanks for handing her that one, JB, now she'll gnaw on that for a while, like a dog on a bone)...GA cannot claim the same. According to him, he has approached bodies that were in the good ole fashioned state of decomposition-no refrigeration, no preservation.
And he said over, and over and maybe over agin that he knew, KNEW, that was the smell of human decomposition. He got his little nose right up in it. He prattled it off to the detectives and special agents with very little reservation.
...which is why the defense might have to take GA down a few notches in the name of mitigation....

bbm
Maybe we will see the Battle of the Anthony Family expert-y witnesses?

 

[ZsaZsa]

IIRC Yuri Melich stated at the first bond hearing that the car smelled like decomposition, based on his knowledge of the smell from several years of being a Homicide Det and it was/is a different smell to the garbage. Can JB get that exluded too?

 

[Intermezzo]

IIRC Yuri Melich stated at the first bond hearing that the car smelled like decomposition, based on his knowledge of the smell from several years of being a Homicide Det and it was/is a different smell to the garbage. Can JB get that exluded too?

I am sure he will, somehow, try to discredit Yuri...

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/anthony_case/091010-Lead-detective-in-Caylee-search-deposed
Lead detective in Caylee search deposed

"I was a homicide detective for 2 years and in my opinion the smell coming from that car was the smell of decomposition," Yuri Melich had told the court
To this day, Baez and Mason say they have not seen one piece of concrete evidence to back that up.
"He has no credibility in my eyes," said Mason. "I think he should transfer to the K-9 unit if he's that good," said Baez, both referring to Melich's comments made in court two years ago."

Here's another one
http://www.wftv.com/news/18253204/detail.html
BAEZ WANTS DETECTIVES INVESTIGATED

Jose Baez wants to investigate detectives from the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Wednesday, Baez sent someone to the sheriff's office to get the personnel files of detectives John Allen and Yuri Melich.

However, he didn't pick up the list of 1,800 Caylee sightings that he requested over a month ago. Despite all the evidence, the Anthonys insist Caylee is alive.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I am sure he will, somehow, try to discredit Yuri...

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/anthony_case/091010-Lead-detective-in-Caylee-search-deposed
Lead detective in Caylee search deposed

"I was a homicide detective for 2 years and in my opinion the smell coming from that car was the smell of decomposition," Yuri Melich had told the court
To this day, Baez and Mason say they have not seen one piece of concrete evidence to back that up.
"He has no credibility in my eyes," said Mason. "I think he should transfer to the K-9 unit if he's that good," said Baez, both referring to Melich's comments made in court two years ago."

Here's another one
http://www.wftv.com/news/18253204/detail.html
BAEZ WANTS DETECTIVES INVESTIGATED

Jose Baez wants to investigate detectives from the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Wednesday, Baez sent someone to the sheriff's office to get the personnel files of detectives John Allen and Yuri Melich.

However, he didn't pick up the list of 1,800 Caylee sightings that he requested over a month ago. Despite all the evidence, the Anthonys insist Caylee is alive.

Mason's comments are typical, in fact the degree of sarcasm or offensiveness he expresses is in inverse proportion to his fear of that person. He also lashes out at K Belich, because she poses such a threat in his petty little mind.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

That's a good point. If he wanted it preserved, shouldn't he have asked for it to be preserved? I wonder if that's how HHJP is going to respond, did you bother to ASK Mr. Baez? Or does he really believe LE was just supposed to do that without him asking? Any of you legal eagles know?

I did ask this in the lawyer thread too. But if any LE types are here, what is the procedure for this? Did Baez misunderstand procedure or just not bother to ask? It seems just like when he whines about media overexposure when he is the one constantly reporting the case to the media! You can't have it both ways, Mr. Baez!

BBM --

I'm sure it's going to go something like the response JB got when complaining about not getting some documents - (I believe it was HHSS) "All you have to do is go down to the clerk and pick them up" :loser:

 

[Intermezzo]

http://wdbo.com/localnews/2009/03/blog-live-from-the-casey-antho.html

WDBO Local News
BLOG: Live from the Casey Anthony courtroom

4:48 - The judge says egregious misconduct has not been shown. Motion for sanction is denied.

4:45 - Linda Drane Burdick is now making an argument for the prosecution, saying Baez's presentation contains a "full-scale failure of proof" and is just a part of Baez's repeated accusations of police or prosecutorial misconduct. She further points out that Baez's own witness contradicted Baez.

4:38 - Baez is now making a summary argument in his request for sanctions against the state, saying evidence was taken out of the vehicle and purposefully kept from the defense's experts, then extensively tested by state experts without the defense's knowledge, nor did the state list those experts on their witness list, as required.

4:31 - Linda Drane Burdick briefly questioned Bloise, asking him to stress that he told Baez and Lee that the bag was in Tennessee. Baez is questioning him again now, on re-direct. He's asking Bloise about any handwritten notes he had from inspecting the car. Bloise is saying he destroys his handwritten notes after he writes a typed report. Baez is asking about the importance of the additional evidence that Dr. Henry Lee found in his inspection that CSI missed - 17 hairs and another stain. He is also trying to refute Bloise's statement that he told Lee that the bag in question was at a lab in Tennessee. Baez asked Bloise if he could show the court proof of that in his typed report, and Bloise said no. He was then excused as a witness.

4:30 - Baez asked Bloise about the day that defense expert Dr. Henry Lee arrived at the CSI garage with Baez to inspect the car. Bloise testified that he told Lee and Baez that day that the garbage bag was in Tennessee when they brought the garbage to be inspected in a box, not the bag. Baez implied that that was not the case.

4:15 - Bloise's testimony reveals that he is the CSI that discovered the hairs and the evidence of decomposition in Casey Anthony's car trunk on July 16th. Baez is asking him if he saw the garbage bag in question, and Bloise is saying he did not. The implication is that the garbage bag was removed before Bloise processed the trunk. Bloise admitted that it's possible that knowledge of the bag's prior placement in the trunk may have been helpful when he processed the trunk.

4:08 - A witness has been called by Jose Baez. He's a crime scene investigator named Geraldo Bloise.

4:00 - The court has moved on to the motion for sanctions. Defense attorney Jose Baez wants the state sanctioned because evidence (a trash bag) was removed from the trunk of Casey Anthony's car and sent to 2 state experts not on the state's witness list. Further, Baez says his expert was unable to access the trash bag when he asked for it. Baez and two attorneys for the prosecution, Linda Drane Burdick and Jeff Ashton, are huddling with the judge at the judge's bench after the prosecution objected to Baez's presentation of the motion. They said he shouldn't be allowed to testify on his own behalf, when there's the possibility of calling witnesses, and they accused him of just that.

 

[denjet]

Thanks, miss plum, for reminding us of the statements and texts KC made to Amy about the smell and dead squirrel ... IMO, this does not fall under the reference to smell motion and, so far, Amy's not on any list to suppress any of her testimony ...
Poor Amy is being deposed today by Baez, and I can't help but think he'll be filing another motion about "new information" he's learned in her deposition so he can get around the cut off date for these types of motions ...
Can he even do that?
Guess we'll know pretty soon ... :waitasec:

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

I know the defense could just be lazy or stupid, but I always have hope there is some sort of strategy in their madness. So my speculation is they were recently thwarted in their attempts to get the air sample thrown out.

Imo, JB has finally realized that he will have to actually present a defense. Fooling around for so long, he is way behind.

And this is his biggest problem, imo. He is still looking for a defense three months before trial. He mistakenly bet on things that just didn't pan out. Instead of working with what he had to get ready (he still could have looked for more info), he refused to work with the evidence and kept trying, hope against hope, to find new evidence.

If I recall correctly, some talking head early on said he was making a classic mistake: he believed his client. He has spent two, almost three years still trying to prove he was right in doing that instead of taking care of his client's rights and being sure she was well represented aginst the evidence that did exist.

 

[mysteriew]

Ok, so if JB is trying to say the smell came from the garbage bag, and in said garbage bag were paper towels with grave wax on them, isn't that NOT in his best interest? Or am I missing something here? :waitasec:

Its my understanding that what is in the defense's best interest to get as much of trunk evidence out as possible. The trunk evidence strongly ties KC to Caylee's dead remains. Plus there is the shock factor that KC probably drove around with the baby's remains in her trunk. JB has to try to get rid of the evidence piece by piece since the LE followed protocol in how they obtained the car. By saying he wasn't given an opportunity to test garbage in it's original state, he is saying that KC's right to test the evidence is compromised.

It doesn't necessarily mean that he is saying or believing that if he had tested the garbage it would have exonorated KC, just that she wasn't given the opportunity to test it. Every defendant has the right to test the evidence used against her.

There isn't any guarentee that the jury would even put much weight in the air sample evidence anyway. That is pretty new and will probably be pretty complicated anyway. The only part that might hurt is if the air sample contained evidence of chloroform.

I think the decomp fluids and hair found in the trunk is much stronger evidence, easier to understand.

 

[ohiogirl]

And this is his biggest problem, imo. He is still looking for a defense three months before trial. He mistakenly bet on things that just didn't pan out. Instead of working with what he had to get ready (he still could have looked for more info), he refused to work with the evidence and kept trying, hope against hope, to find new evidence.

If I recall correctly, some talking head early on said he was making a classic mistake: he believed his client. He has spent two, almost three years still trying to prove he was right in doing that instead of taking care of his client's rights and being sure she was well represented aginst the evidence that did exist.

Not to dispute the talking head, but I am not convinced that JB thinks she is innocent. I think he is just arrogant in thinking he can be the one to pull an OJ here. He has an inflated perception of his skill, imo.

 

[NoNameLeft]

If I recall correctly, some talking head early on said he was making a classic mistake: he believed his client. He has spent two, almost three years still trying to prove he was right in doing that instead of taking care of his client's rights and being sure she was well represented aginst the evidence that did exist.

Yes, and that talking head was none other than Mr. Cheney Mason :floorlaugh:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWb_ZztZOKM[/ame]