2011.02.18 Depo: Tony Lazzarro - depo linked on pg. 5

[ZsaZsa]

Here is Bill Sheaffer's analysis of the depositions:-
http://www.wftv.com/video/27625217/index.html

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Here is Bill Sheaffer's analysis of the depositions:-
http://www.wftv.com/video/27625217/index.html

Can someone post a very quick summary of what his analysis/opinion is on both the depositions? (I can't watch videos right now and I'm dying to know his opinion!) TIA

 

[Softail]

:dunno: Although this depo wasn't much, I can't say that I blame him for "not remembering". I'm quite sure he has seen and heard that bus driving around.

 

[Intermezzo]

Oh yeah :doh:

I guess I associate Amy's car accident situation with Jacksonville. That's where Casey got the whole Jacksonville story from. :crazy:

Also, her friend Ryan moved to Jacksonville to attend school

IMO She weaves events from the lives of others to create her lies

 

[Chiquita71]

Because she WAS a good little girl. She was a sweetie. And because she really wanted Mommy's love but knew in her heart that it wasn't there.




It's not.



I really, really doubt Caylee was ever locked in the trunk until the day she was killed. I doubt she was ever abused in any conventional manner until casey murdered her. People find it hard to fathom that a person who generally took good care of her child could kill that child. People assume that because she was capable of murdering her baby, she must have otherwise abused her.

But I think it is very possible for someone not to love their child yet still basically take care of them and not abuse them or neglect them in a conventional sense. I think it is possible for someone to plan to kill their kid but have been a decent parent up to that point, or at least a passable one. Like Susan Smith. Like Darlie Routier. Like Chris Coleman. Like countless others.

I don't think Caylee was locked in the trunk because I have filled in most of the blanks as to where casey and Caylee were during 2008. It seems that casey at first left her child with her parents at night a lot, and then with the Grunds and I think it was Kristina, during the day. Then, Kristina said, "You're not working, no more." And then the Grunds also stopped the free childcare. After that, she seemed to be carting her child around with her a lot more often during the day, albeit grudgingly, as can be seen in the photos at the Lake Vaj house (I think it was).

At night, she continued to utilize her parents until they got wise to her tricks. At that point, CA started demanding proof of employment before she would sit for Caylee at night. And often, it seems, she gave CA the proof that was required, or at least sufficient proof for CA.

Of course, CA began to really uncover the truth about casey's employment status and really started making it difficult for casey to be free. Then, casey found Ricardo. He allowed the baby to spend the night, in his bed. So, casey continued to be free to some degree for awhile and Caylee stayed safe for the moment.

It started screeching to a halt when she hooked onto Tony. He didn't want a baby in his bed. And this was at the same time CA was clamping down harder. The timeline during that time period does not show a night when Caylee was unaccounted for by a third party. But, once casey found it harder and harder to go out and have a place for Caylee to be, she killed her. I think if Tony had been cool with having the baby in his bed, Caylee may still be alive. I think if CA had allowed her daughter to go out whenever she wanted, not work and dump Caylee on the grandparents all the time, Caylee would still be alive. And GA and CA know that, which is why during one of the jail visits, CA announced that when "all of this" was over, casey would not have to work and could be more free. It was like a plea, a prayer: "Just make this nightmare end. Give me back Caylee. I'll give you whatever you want." Sadly, she knew deep down it was too late. I am not saying they are to blame, btw. I'm just saying that casey's final motivation and the reason why the murder happened at the time it did was the squeeze she began to feel and what she perceived to be was her lack of freedom, due to her child. But until then, Caylee was accounted for and not locked away in some trunk.

I think casey resented Caylee but did not hate her. I think her hatred was reserved for her parents, mostly her mom, who began finally to try to hold her daughter accountable. A little too little, a little too late. casey also hated that her mom treated (in her mind) Caylee better. I think she hated her mom for being a better parent to Caylee and for trying to usurp casey's role in that regard. And she hated CA because CA is a crazy, personality- disordered person who made casey's life miserable and likely would have even if casey had not been an irresponsible, criminally minded sociopath.

IMO, casey made the cold and calculated decision to murder a child who got in her way, a child she did not truly hate and probably was even fond of at times. See, sociopaths can do that. They can make clinical decisions about the fates of their "loved ones" without having a history of being violent abusers or criminally negligent parents. They can decide to get rid of people they don't hate who they even enjoy from time to time. That's because the sociopath comes first to the sociopath and anyone who gets in their way is at risk to some degree. Their love is reserved for themselves as are their bonds.

No, I don't think Caylee was ever abused in a conventional sense by casey, until the day her life was snuffed out by a monster. However, there was something going on deep down that I would call abusive. casey didn't really love her child the way we love our kids. She didn't really have that strong bond or familial connection. I think that when Caylee was born, casey saw her at times as an extension of herself, without an independent soul or personality. When she looked at Caylee, it was like looking into a mirror, in a sense. So, she was okay with her. As Caylee grew, she became more of a ball and chain and more like an unwanted sister who was taking casey's place as the family princess and forcing responsibility on casey that began to negate the novelty of having a cute baby to tote around and having people gush at what a great mom she was. And so, Caylee was murdered.

Yet, prior to that murder, despite an absence of any conventional battering or neglect on casey's part of Caylee, at no time was there what I would call a normal bond or level of affection. Hence, the eerie videotapes of Caylee, being taped for long stretches by an unresponsive parent who was simply looking into a mirror as she taped and not seeing the real, live, breathing human soul that was staring back with confusion at the lack of connection and stretching her little arms out, vocalizing as best as she could to get some response from the person she was left alone with, who was behind the camera. But the response did not come, the eerie silence continued and the little face crumpled in confused anguish. That to me is abuse and that's the only kind of abuse I really feel occurred here. And, it's really enough.

RespectfullyQuoted gitana :tyou: :takeabow: :clap:

What a great post. :tyou: again~!

:waiting: for the trial.

 

[Softail]

Can someone post a very quick summary of what his analysis/opinion is on both the depositions? (I can't watch videos right now and I'm dying to know his opinion!) TIA

He is saying that this stuff just re-enforces what we all know - She is a liar. She tells different stories to different people. That some of the stuff is trying to lay a foundation to blame George. Most of what she told Tony won't be heard by the jury because it is hearsay. He goes on to talk about other evidence, and whether or not it comes in. If certain things come in - bad for defense, if certain things don't come in, no biggie because there is plenty of other evidence to support it. Juries watch and expect CSI type of evidence.

Hope that helps.

 

[AZlawyer]

Baez; Mr Lazzaro, let me ask this, do you recall whether you told LE that you did not smell anything?
AL; Please repeat the question.
Baez: Do you recall--
Mason: I'm going to my office. I can't stand this.
Drane-Burdick: Let's go off the record.
Baez: ...when Casey opened the trunk of the car..
Mason; JOSE
Baez; that you did not smell anything?
Mr Ashton: Hold on, everybody stop for a second.
TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES-Discussion off the record
Mr Mason left the deposition
Baez; Now, going back to the 1st time that Casey ran out of gas and called you, you're saying that you don't recall whether she opened the trunk or not or do you recall that?
=================================================

It looks to me like Mason was upset with Baez and the line of questioning?

Maybe because they already had a transcript of Tony telling LE that he DIDN'T smell anything, and only a total idiot of a lawyer would give the witness a chance to change testimony that is helpful to the lawyer's client? :banghead:

 

[Snaz]

AL: I just don't recall. It could have been. Honestly, it would have been much better to do this at that time. (page 30)

Thanks for saying that, TonE.

And did you notice that Baez just ignored his comment and went right on asking him questions? :loser:

Can't argue with truth, I guess.....

 

[Chiquita71]

I think this is a brilliant analysis of casey and how she works psychologically. You put together little things that on their own are not that relevant and painted a real picture of how she may operate.

Respectfully Quoted gitana :cool2:

That, is the comment I should have left you: word for word. You even wrote the comment I wanted to write to you: to someone else! :blowkiss:

The post you quoted was a good one too, imo~

:waiting: for the trial.

 

[Aedrys]

Maybe because they already had a transcript of Tony telling LE that he DIDN'T smell anything, and only a total idiot of a lawyer would give the witness a chance to change testimony that is helpful to the lawyer's client? :banghead:

That makes perfect sense! What would we do without you, Azlawyer?

I noticed Mason used Baez's first name. LOL. That must mean he was really mad at Baez.

I do wonder why lets Baez fudge things up so much. I also wonder if Mason is going to take over for trial, and suddenly be able to hear and speak. I'm just waiting for a sudden transformation to a competent lawyer - their AHA moment. lol.

 

[sindydee]

I think Tonys view of Casey was exactly how she wanted herself to be viewed by him. He saw nothing bad in the 2 months he was with her. Probably becasue there was nothing bad to report. She was fun to be around, cooked, cleaned etc. She acted in this way because thats what she "thought" he liked, so adapted herself to fit in. If that makes sense? :waitasec: lol

 

[TotallyObsessed]

What a waste, a huge waste. IMHO TL was the perfect patsy for ICA. She must have impressed him with her WONDERFUL mothering skils. She must have impressed him with her great job where she could work any hours she pleased, and from home to boot. She must have impressed him with a lot of things....
I can see from this depo why she wanted him. He was very, very easy to fool. Doesn't come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer. As far as him memory.....might want to lay off that wacky weed.

 

[Moe]

TonE was a young man on his own, far away from home for school. He had no intention of staying in Florida, and he told ICA so. She was a lovely convenience for the summer, a fling, no more no less.
I am so hoping he has a wedding ring on when he testfies. She deserves it.

 

[Softail]

TonE was a young man on his own, far away from home for school. He had no intention of staying in Florida, and he told ICA so. She was a lovely convenience for the summer, a fling, no more no less.
I am so hoping he has a wedding ring on when he testify. She deserves it.

:giggle: I love it! :giggle:

 

[katydid23]

I agree with the above posts---as a gf, she was a dream come true. She had a full time job, was a Valencia college student, a single mother, and still she found the time to clean his apartment, cook his dinner, do the booga-loo, and help him with his club promotion at night. What an amazing woman, eh?

 

[jon_burrows]

Casey did whatever it took to make Tony happy. She needed a rent free place to live. She couldn't go home and tell her parents that Caylee was just down the street triple bagged with duct tape over her face. She had no job and she was running out of people to steal from. She sure as heck wasn't going to get a job.

I think they only knew each other for a month. How much can you really know about a person in just one month? Obviously not much because he was sleeping with a liar, thief, and killer.

IMO

 

[Softail]

For anyone who can't see Bill S's video - You can also read about it here:

http://www.wftv.com/news/27624835/detail.html

 

[lowens1975]

Just got through reading Tony's depo. He's forgotten everything and most importantly and probably to the displeasure of ICA, he's moved on. That's gonna break her heart. :floorlaugh:

 

[Chiquita71]

I think TL was thinking he'd hit the jackpot having KC pamper him. Sounds like some good times on the way to the good life. However, the jury may wonder how KC had time to be "running her own investigation" in finding her daughter.

MOO, TL got played. I hope he figured it out and will be careful in the future.

RespectfullyQuoted Curious Me :wave:
BBM

Yes. :tyou:

If this is a tactic of the defense to get the word out to the "ethers" of how well Casey treated Caylee, I await the backfire. Listening as a juror might, I hear that Casey did not mistreat Caylee in the opinion of her 'best' friend and her (at the time)main boyfriend/lover. But.

What I do not hear is how much Casey changed during the 31 days she could not tell her best friend, and boyfriend/lover that her daughter had been taken by the nanny. Especially after the withdraw by the defense of the experts who were to testify to Casey's behavior for those 31 days, one would wonder how a mother who so seemingly cares for and loves her child- could go about business as usual? Which is what I feel these statements are attesting, Casey was golden during that time.

There was nothing wrong with Casey as far as they could see, nor with her relationship with Caylee-Casey told them how much fun Caylee was having at the parks and beaches she was visiting. Okay,- so much more the mystery as to how Casey shopped, cooked, cleaned, serviced her man, was a good friend and maintained an active social life, when this good mother was dying inside. How could that not leak out in some way, if we are speaking of a mother in true distress? A noticeable catch in her voice, or look in her eye as she spoke of Caylee, noted in hindsight- by these witnesses?

These statements by Amy and TonE are no different that everyone else who came into contact with Casey after no one ever saw Caylee again. From her friends to Tim Miller, Leonard P's team, FBI, LE, etc-all have stated Casey has never acted upset about Caylee being gone-imo the 911 operator could testify to how calm and collected the good mother's behavior seemed-and right at the moment when the cat was out of the bag anyhow and any fear of people "knowing" was no longer a factor. But Casey never cuts loose, never exclaims "my daughter is missing!" Never. :no:

I find it curious that two people, each from different "walks of life"(Amy admitted that she was not comfortable in the same social places that Casey new friends were enjoying)would, in hind site to these events, still claim they saw Casey as a good mother. Neither one of them can now see the writing on the wall? :waitasec:

I expect to see these depos and see that both(or at least Amy)must add to the effect of, "but I didn't know what was going on." There are a million valid reasons these folks could never have imagined or known that Casey was pure deceit. That's how liars get away with lying, what 'normal' person could fathom Casey's type of thinking? Even after you "know"- there is little understanding. But, to have these depos take place mere months ago, for them to have such little reaction or so little insight to the murder of Caylee as to say, "Casey was a good mom"-I have to believe these statements have been taken of context. :twocents:

If I thought "Betty" was a good mom, then found out what is known from the documents/from her own family, regarding her...never again would the sentence "Betty was a good mom" come from my lips. The closest be and only if forced for full information, "I had thought at one time Betty was a good mom but never has any one human being been so wrong, so very very wrong as I- I now know nothing could have been further from the truth."

If it is true these two witnesses stand on statements of Casey being a good mother to Caylee, again it comes to my mind so clearly how cold this mother would have to be for those 31 days to cater to her boyfriend, and never show a sign that her heart was broken. Even if I am to swallow the idea Casey, for whatever reason, felt she could not confide in anyone about what "had happened" to Caylee-I expect to hear in these glowing depositions how suddenly Casey had changed. How she was not her usual bubbly, wonderful, cooking, cleaning, loving, attentive, friend and self. How, without Caylee around, this loving mother just could not truly enjoy nor be herself. How she was incomplete.

But, no! Casey was being a perfect girlfriend, and friend. Nothing from TonE about the odd behavior change in Casey(as she had to hide all the sleuthing she was doing to find Caylee), nothing about how suddenly she was unavailable in some ways to him. :innocent: TonE did, in another statement to LE say he woke(early/late?)to find/see Casey sitting in front of her computer with images of Caylee and he says she was crying.

Unless there is testimony at trial by TonE or anyone else, that is the only statement to date where a possible emotion of upset was shown by Casey toward Caylee-during her "kidnapping" even unto today. TonE wouldn't have known the significance of what he was seeing except to think Casey missed her daughter, which is the impression he might be left with-except for all the information he knows about her now. IMHO.

Which brings me back to my original thought, these are statements taken completely out of context. Not just the context of the interview but context of the whole case. At trial, if the defense were to put Amy and TonE on the stand to have them state only how Casey was a good mom-as that hangs in the air the prosecution could stand and say, "Let's begin our case from there..."

(Insert all the lists made not only by Websleuths(ers) but by many blogs following the case. We all know what goes there...) Backfire, as the jury is set up to think they will hear about a good mother and then be confronted with actions in complete opposition to that truth. Stating that some saw her as being a good mother to Caylee only makes Casey's behavior during those 31 days and since all the more suspect and cold. :twocents:

:waiting: for the trial.

 

[Intermezzo]

So, any speculation on why Mason got so upset and left? Was it his hearing aid or was he upset about Baez questioning Tony about the smell in the trunk of Casey's car?

I thought Tony came to Orlando for the depo but it was conducted via WebEx..maybe Mason was having a hard time hearing...or was bored with Jose's line of questioning
I read the depo was only about 1 hour long...