2011.02.18 Depo: Tony Lazzarro - depo linked on pg. 5

[MissJames]

Just an observation,but I think the reason TL doesn't recall a lot of the details is because he was just not that into her (ICA). He was still doing his thing with school/friends/work.ICA inserted herself. I doubt if TL ever asked ICA to stay there .She just wouldn't leave , just as she stayed with Amy the week TL was out of town.

ICA not being allowed to stay at TL's apt. when he went to NY, speaks volumes about their relationship ,or lack there of. ICA was an extended booty call for TL. ICA talks and talks and talks.He just tuned out the details .Her world was not important enough for him to pay attention to details.
He had no intention of tying himself down to someone with a child,IMO. I think ICA knew TL was not that interested in her, and she was working on Will while TL was out of town.
Sometimes my husband will start telling me about something at work that he finds interesting. Because I don't know the people he's talking about,or the technicalities of what he's telling me,I just don't retain it.I'll vaguely remember the discussion,but not the details.
I think that's how TL's entire relationship with ICA was.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just an observation,but I think the reason TL doesn't recall a lot of the details is because he was just not that into her (ICA). He was still doing his thing with school/friends/work.ICA inserted herself. I doubt if TL ever asked ICA to stay there .She just wouldn't leave , just as she stayed with Amy the week TL was out of town.

ICA not being allowed to stay at TL's apt. when he went to NY, speaks volumes about their relationship ,or lack there of. ICA was an extended booty call for TL. ICA talks and talks and talks.He just tuned out the details .Her world was not important enough for him to pay attention to details.
He had no intention of tying himself down to someone with a child,IMO. I think ICA knew TL was not that interested in her, and she was working on Will while TL was out of town.
Sometimes my husband will start telling me about something at work that he finds interesting. Because I don't know the people he's talking about,or the technicalities of what he's telling me,I just don't retain it.I'll vaguely remember the discussion,but not the details.
I think that's how TL's entire relationship with ICA was.

I don't think that Casey was all that interested in Tony either. Tony was simply a place to stay for Casey. Which was important to her at that moment because she could not go home. She was already working on Mark Hawkins in California. She was using Tony's jeep to visit another guy... I can't recall his name at this very moment, but she spent a day or two hanging out with him at his parents house.

I do agree with everything you said though. Tony was not serious about Casey. He had no idea what was about to happen and I am sure he tries to rack his brain about details that he simply can't remember. I feel bad for him. I really do. I personally can not wait until this is over for all of these young people and they can continue on with whatever they have planned for their futures.

 

[Intermezzo]

I was just going to say, TonyL didn't spend much time with Caylee and ICA..he only saw Caylee a few times and the last was June 2, 2008 when they went in the pool...

It's so easy to fool someone into thinking they are a good parent...yet, no one knows how ICA treated Caylee behind closed doors..ICA's frame of mind changed towards Caylee when CA wouldn't babysit for ICA to just go carousing about....she wanted her to be more attentive to Caylee..so CA saw something that others didn't...ICA doesn't fool everyone...I think she started to resent Caylee just as she resented her own mother...she saw Caylee as a burden, especially after that I'd want sons and not daughters comment...but ICA made the ultimate decision to do what's alleged...she just had a push with that altercation on June 15, 2008 which CA adamantly denies...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

bbm
iirc, the last time Tony L saw Caylee was on June 11 when he, Casey and Caylee went to the Mall at Millenia so he could hand out flyers for an event at Fusion on Friday night and they ate at the Cheesecake Factory.

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

i'm confused by this depo..
i always got the impression that tony wasn't all that into casey. he made it a point to make sure she knew that the apartment they went to look at was NOT for him and her.. but him and his friends. he also kind of just blew her off and was very rude to her in the IMs they exchanged, he thought it was funny when he made her cry on the phone (he's staying in NY) and all that other kind of stuff.. he didn't want her there when he wasn't home.. he got so mad when she ran up a $60 tab at the bar - that's really not a big bar tab.. did he ever really spend money on her besides cheesecake factory? she was always the one who supported him i thought? she paid at subway, kept his fridge stocked.. and she wasn't even working! it was with stolen money! how did she think she was gonna keep up the front?
what did she think would happen when amy found out about the checks? did she get scared and that's why she started planning what she'd say about caylee (when she said caylee called her from the nanny's) what would she do when her resources ran out? when she couldn't steal off mom and dad anymore?
i think she was gonna off her parents to collect life insurance.. that's what the searches on neck breaking and stuff were for. she knew she couldn't keep this up any longer

but anyway, back to the topic.. so, now why is he going into this depo and acting like they were this really close couple.. GF of the year?
i think he just put up with her because she cooked and cleaned.. and most of the reason why she got rid of caylee was for tony.. not her parents.

 

[Capri]

Perhaps then, he went the road of denial? He did tell KC he didn't want Caylee around, iirc.

Right, If I were him, I'd want to push as much of it out of my head as possible. Really, he told ICA he wanted all boys, no girls, then she kills Caylee. You just can't dwell on that too much or you'd go bonkers.

 

[LambChop]

KC was never held accountable for anything. She had reached 22 years of age and does not have an arrest record and she stole thousands of dollars so what would that tell us. In her mind she appeared to think she could lie to everyone forever and just get away with it. Wonder what tale she had ready for Amy when Amy realized her bank account was empty. BOA does not send you copies of your checks so did she think Amy would buy the "you must have been sleepwalking while you were on vacation", excuse? I don't think KC lives in a real world most of the time. jmo

 

[Oakley]

i'm confused by this depo..
i always got the impression that tony wasn't all that into casey. he made it a point to make sure she knew that the apartment they went to look at was NOT for him and her.. but him and his friends. he also kind of just blew her off and was very rude to her in the IMs they exchanged, he thought it was funny when he made her cry on the phone (he's staying in NY) and all that other kind of stuff.. he didn't want her there when he wasn't home.. he got so mad when she ran up a $60 tab at the bar - that's really not a big bar tab.. did he ever really spend money on her besides cheesecake factory? she was always the one who supported him i thought? she paid at subway, kept his fridge stocked.. and she wasn't even working! it was with stolen money! how did she think she was gonna keep up the front?
what did she think would happen when amy found out about the checks? did she get scared and that's why she started planning what she'd say about caylee (when she said caylee called her from the nanny's) what would she do when her resources ran out? when she couldn't steal off mom and dad anymore?
i think she was gonna off her parents to collect life insurance.. that's what the searches on neck breaking and stuff were for. she knew she couldn't keep this up any longer

but anyway, back to the topic.. so, now why is he going into this depo and acting like they were this really close couple.. GF of the year?
i think he just put up with her because she cooked and cleaned.. and most of the reason why she got rid of caylee was for tony.. not her parents.

ITA BG. He sure didn't seem to treat her like someone he was especially fond of. In fact, it seemed he was a bit sadistic toward her - thinking of the remark that he wanted to have only boy children, and telling her he might not be returning from NY. Then again, maybe that is the way he relates to women he likes. Maybe I should give him a pass due to his young age.

 

[Desdemona]

IIRC, Tony did say in his LE interview that he remembered it being in reference to their relationship-He is not remembering as clearly now as he probably did then, some answers have changed a bit.

Amy had an answer that was a bit different, too, and I was biting my nails wondering if the defense was gonna give her a hard time about it: She said that, during their car ride, CA talked about an awful smell in the trunk and that she and GA thought it might be KC or Caylee. Previously, AH said that CA did not allude to death, she just said the trunk smelled like sh...poop.

|BBM|

From Amy's account to OCSO on 07/23/08, (a week after Casey's first arrest):

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_A_Huizenga072308.htm
|BBM|
Page 29:
6 EE: Did uh, grandma ever ask you about a smell coming from the car?
7 AH: She told me about the smell uhm...
8 EE: Uhm, when?
9 AH: ...in the car ride back to Tony's place. Uhm, after she had picked me up from
10 Florida Mall that was, she was telling me the story about you know, the fact that
11 she had gotten a letter from the impound uhm, saying that the car had been
12 impounded...
13 EE: Uh-hum (affirmative).
14 AH: ..since the 30th. They went to go pick it up. And that the car smell like
15 something had died. And...
16 EE: Grandma tells you that?
17 AH: Grandma tells me that. And at that point I'm like,"Oh, yeah (affirmative), Casey
18 told me she had run something over with her car."

Pages 34-35:
17 EE: But did she say anything that sticks out in your mind that she may have linked
18 something bad happening to that child with that smell in that car?
19 AH: Only that at first they, because she hadn't talking to Casey either in a month, that
20 they were afraid that it was either Caylee of Casey stuffed in the trunk, uhm, until
21 they got it open. Uhm, once we got to ...
22 EE: So they were afraid that the baby was in the trunk?
23 AH: They were terrified it was either Casey or Caylee.
24 EE: Because of the smell?

1 AH: Because they had not talked to either of them. Because of the smell.


HTH, because overall IMO Amy does seem like a really solid witness, even years after the events in question. (Noob apology if this is OT in this thread; not sure about quoting a post to another thread to reply.)

On topic: I agree, there are several instances in this late-date depo of Tony's, in which he does not seem to recall things as he did in 2008, IMO.

 

[Jolynna]

It was my impression that Tony didn't like having to talk to the defense team very much.He was not nice a couple of times. There was the remark about how he could have remembered better if the defense team had asked two years ago. Plus Tony said he wore the wire to help LE and that he still wanted to help LE.

I think he gave the defense short non-specific answers because he didn't want to help the defense by giving them ANYTHING they could USE. (Plus the defense is looking for somebody to run over with their bus and I am sure Tony's lawyer has let him know that less talk is more.)

Tony said KC was a good girlfriend because to Tony a woman that cooks, cleans, puts out and hustles up groceries and beer IS a good girlfriend. Like Amy and all the rest of KC's friends, Tony said KC was a good mother because in front of people, KC probably did act like a good, caring mother. People buy little dogs, dress them up, act ga-ga over their pooches in public and then dump the puppies off at the pound when they get bored with cleaning up after them. Acting Ga-ga and motherly over Caylee when people KC wanted to impress were "watching" doesn't mean anything. Especially when since KC was auditioning to be the future Mrs. TL (who wanted those sons).

Lots of bad mothers pretend to be good mothers in public.

 

[nyvictoria]

I think Tony's lack of detailed memory was partly due to not wanting to help Casey's defense. His "nope" answers come off as a kid sounding thoroughly annoyed to be in the predicament of being questioned by a couple of lawyers trying to defend a chick he slept with and just wasn't that into a couple of years ago. I think he'll be ok as a witness when questioned by the State. I hope so because he does have relevant info.

 

[Softail]

How could Tony's opinion of whether or not she was a "good mother" even be considered? He only met Caylee a total of what? 3 times max? :waitasec: That is just crazy! Yeah, DT, try that one! :crazy::crazy:

 

[LambChop]

How could Tony's opinion of whether or not she was a "good mother" even be considered? He only met Caylee a total of what? 3 times max? :waitasec: That is just crazy! Yeah, DT, try that one! :crazy::crazy:

One better, lol. A good mother to Tony is one that lets someone else look after Caylee 24/7 while Casey is playing house. Tony was quite inexperienced in what good "mom's" do for their children. Pawning them off on others for a month is not one of them. Plus the truth has proven otherwise. jmo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Wasn't she cheating on Tony? Like with RM or someone??

 

[Just Jayla]

Wasn't she cheating on Tony? Like with RM or someone??

Cheating in sexual and emotional forms:

She was "staying with" RM when TL and she first started dating, then she finally let RM know that she was into TL.
Then, she had a series of IM's with Iassen (see bottom of page 6 into page 7 in particular):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5803027/Casey-Anthony-Instant-messages-with-Iassen-Donov

....where she lies about Ricardo and flirts with ID.

Then there's WillW-Who knows if anything happened, but he was sweet on her. Then there's MarkH, whom she was keeping daily contact with, wanted to go see him, etc.
And finally, if I were TL, I would not be so happy if my girlfriend went to her ex-fiance's house and took a shower with the door wide open....just sayin'

Of note also: KC tells ID that she is called for jury duty every year but the number never works (?) and ID mentions his friend "Vicki"...KC says she's been friends with TL for a year, TL wants KC to go to NY with him but she doesn't want to...


ETA-This time I used a link, since clearly I am not remembering crap correctly anymore...also, the above post may or may not have mentioned a WS member. If that member existed or not, maybe that member could add to this, or maybe not.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Cheating in sexual and emotional forms:

She was "staying with" RM when TL and she first started dating, then she finally let RM know that she was into TL.
Then, she had a series of IM's with Iassen (see bottom of page 6 into page 7 in particular):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5803027/Casey-Anthony-Instant-messages-with-Iassen-Donov

....where she lies about Ricardo and flirts with ID.

Then there's WillW-Who knows if anything happened, but he was sweet on her. Then there's MarkH, whom she was keeping daily contact with, wanted to go see him, etc.
And finally, if I were TL, I would not be so happy if my girlfriend went to her ex-fiance's house and took a shower with the door wide open....just sayin'

Of note also: KC tells ID that she is called for jury duty every year but the number never works (?) and ID mentions his friend "Vicki"...KC says she's been friends with TL for a year, TL wants KC to go to NY with him but she doesn't want to...


ETA-This time I used a link, since clearly I am not remembering crap correctly anymore...also, the above post may or may not have mentioned a WS member. If that member existed or not, maybe that member could add to this, or maybe not.

That's what I thought. Why on Earth is TL talking about her being any kind of good person? She was all over every guy she knew practically. At least she won't be bothered with jury duty since she's a felon now lol.

Kinda adds a weird dimension to the "just get me Tony's number" call from jail. This was a guy she was cheating on and dated for two months. Unbelievable.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

It was my impression that Tony didn't like having to talk to the defense team very much.He was not nice a couple of times. There was the remark about how he could have remembered better if the defense team had asked two years ago. Plus Tony said he wore the wire to help LE and that he still wanted to help LE.

I think he gave the defense short non-specific answers because he didn't want to help the defense by giving them ANYTHING they could USE. (Plus the defense is looking for somebody to run over with their bus and I am sure Tony's lawyer has let him know that less talk is more.)

Tony said KC was a good girlfriend because to Tony a woman that cooks, cleans, puts out and hustles up groceries and beer IS a good girlfriend. Like Amy and all the rest of KC's friends, Tony said KC was a good mother because in front of people, KC probably did act like a good, caring mother. People buy little dogs, dress them up, act ga-ga over their pooches in public and then dump the puppies off at the pound when they get bored with cleaning up after them. Acting Ga-ga and motherly over Caylee when people KC wanted to impress were "watching" doesn't mean anything. Especially when since KC was auditioning to be the future Mrs. TL (who wanted those sons).

Lots of bad mothers pretend to be good mothers in public.

I'm so glad you said this, because I was thinking the exact same thing but thought there was something wrong with me because everybody else felt the opposite. In the first two minutes, I got the feeling that Tony was really standoffish with the defense, like he was wary of them, annoyed with their approach, short, not really defiant, but pretty clearly wasn't in a helpful mood, therefore all the "I don't remember"s. I thought that him saying she was a good girlfriend and a good mother, well, she WAS, or that's what he THOUGHT, so he was just telling the truth. They weren't asking him what he thinks of her NOW, they asked him what he thought of her THEN. It's easy now with hindsight to say "oh she was a raving lunatic", but that wouldn't be the case, because at the time, she WAS a good girlfriend.

Well, all I can say is, when I was 22 there is no way in heck I could have made it through all this questioning and have to deal with this in my life. All of these kids have shown exemplary composure, backbone and horsepower. I would have folded like a napkin under this intense pressure. I'd have cried through the whole thing and probably wanted to jump off a bridge at the thought of appearing in court, in front of millions.

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't know how TL or AH held their tongues, though AH came closer than TL to having a verbal slip....and maybe they don't believe what I believe but...

I believe there is a very respectful way for them to tell Baez what he doesn't want to hear: Mr. Baez, it was known amongst all of our friends that KC was a liar. She lied about things great and small, things involving Caylee and things so remote from Caylee that you wouldn't even care. Mr. Baez, you know a liar, I know a liar, God knows a liar and the public knows a liar. We have all met one. Jose, I cannot tell you what to ask me, but as this is recored and will be printed and published for all the world to see, I would suggest you ask me about the timeline of events, and do not touch upon my opinions or impetus. I believe your client killed her two year old daughter and it's vile, I am horrified, and I will not voluntarily support her character.

I dunno, maybe these former friends still feel too close, maybe they feel it would be disrespectful to say that to JB and team, maybe they think it was an accident. A room full of lawyers could be very intimidating; But I believe it is a far more fair thing to lay it all out up front to JB so that he can adequately do his job, and I believe it is fair to tell him, if that's what they feel, that they will be of no help.
RyanP told Baez firm exactly that when they called him for help. He told them that he would be of no help to them. Polite.Concise.Honest. And far better for KC's defense overall that they have a full picture of what they are dealing with, especially when the people that knew her best state this opinion. While AH and TL are very important to the guilt phase, Ryan could have been equally as important to the penalty phase, as they will surely go over KC's life in total. And you see how JB has eliminated RP from his rolodex? Makes life a lot easier and saves taxpayer money.
There is nothing that these two said that has changed (greatly) from their original interviews. JB could have simply reviewed those, and maybe even cornered them in front a jury where reasonable doubt can accumulate, rather than having them regurgitate the same with little or no challenge from him. JB has just given the state more ammo, IMO, because now they have several interviews and various depos that they can pull from to support the consistency of AH and TL's versions.

 

[jumpinjack]

That's what I thought. Why on Earth is TL talking about her being any kind of good person? She was all over every guy she knew practically. At least she won't be bothered with jury duty since she's a felon now lol.

Kinda adds a weird dimension to the "just get me Tony's number" call from jail. This was a guy she was cheating on and dated for two months. Unbelievable.

To admit anything other than this may reflect poorly on him. He may feel his character could be called into question should he say anything other than the girl he was dating (essentially living with) was a good choice. It's interesting when he's asked specifically to tell the DT about Casey, other than saying "she's fun", he talks only about her cooking, cleaning, buying groceries and doing laundry. Absent from those remarks where any type of character endorsements i.e., she's smart, she's kind, she's giving , she's funny or anything substantial. I think TL spoke volumes in what was left unsaid.

 

[Aedrys]

Just an observation,but I think the reason TL doesn't recall a lot of the details is because he was just not that into her (ICA). He was still doing his thing with school/friends/work.ICA inserted herself. I doubt if TL ever asked ICA to stay there .She just wouldn't leave , just as she stayed with Amy the week TL was out of town.

ICA not being allowed to stay at TL's apt. when he went to NY, speaks volumes about their relationship ,or lack there of. ICA was an extended booty call for TL. ICA talks and talks and talks.He just tuned out the details .Her world was not important enough for him to pay attention to details.
He had no intention of tying himself down to someone with a child,IMO. I think ICA knew TL was not that interested in her, and she was working on Will while TL was out of town.
Sometimes my husband will start telling me about something at work that he finds interesting. Because I don't know the people he's talking about,or the technicalities of what he's telling me,I just don't retain it.I'll vaguely remember the discussion,but not the details.I think that's how TL's entire relationship with ICA was.

BBM. ITA with most of your post. However, I would think if something happened to the person at work your husband was talking about, or God forbid, your husband did something bad or something bad happened shortly after that conversation, it would be etched in your memory. Tony seems to have shrugged this off like it was just a one night stand long ago that he just wants to forget. A child was murdered, by a woman he was sleeping with, who he told that he didn't want girl children. How does he shrug that off and not remember anything?

I do agree with another poster that maybe he sounded this way in the deposition because he didn't want to help the defense. I really hope that's the case, and I sincerely hope that he's a lot better on the stand at trial time. I hope he realizes how serious this situation is and treats it more seriously in court. This isn't a game he can win against the defense, it's a serious situation involving a murdered child.

 

[Just Jayla]

BBM. ITA with most of your post. However, I would think if something happened to the person at work your husband was talking about, or God forbid, your husband did something bad or something bad happened shortly after that conversation, it would be etched in your memory. Tony seems to have shrugged this off like it was just a one night stand long ago that he just wants to forget. A child was murdered, by a woman he was sleeping with, who he told that he didn't want girl children. How does he shrug that off and not remember anything?

I do agree with another poster that maybe he sounded this way in the deposition because he didn't want to help the defense. I really hope that's the case, and I sincerely hope that he's a lot better on the stand at trial time. I hope he realizes how serious this situation is and treats it more seriously in court. This isn't a game he can win against the defense, it's a serious situation involving a murdered child.

The good news is that when the state asks TL to recite the facts of their time together, there is nothing factual that he can say that will clear KC of Caylee's murder. He can have all the opinions, good or bad, that he wants, but the facts he knows are far more important: She didn't have Caylee, she didn't mention Caylee after he and his friends stopped asking, she was out getting so wasted with him that he had to bring her home in a stupor, she was smoking up with him, she woke up with cold sweats, she was watching a video of Caylee in the middle of the night and weeping, she was having sex with Ricardo while she was sleeping with him (meaning his opinion of her is skewed anyway), she made secretive phone calls to her mother, she told him she was getting her parents' house, she was wierd about him helping her put gas in her car, and she furthered the Zanny story with him.