2011.05.12 Nancy Grace

[Steely Dan]

If the prosecutors introduce her statements to police there can't be a juror with a brain cell that would believe anything she says. JMO

 

[tlcya]

I have wondered from time to time about this possible approach as well.

As a sexual abuse/incest survivor I can honestly say that no one but the A's know if ICA was sexually abused as a child. Nothing about her behavior is a yes or no indicator. I was raised to keep up appearances. My family was middle-class, white picket fence, church going, community involved........NO ONE ever suspected and I was too terrified and programmed to rock the boat. Not until I was in my 30's did I find the courage to tell my first person (a total stranger at that) so I won't go down that road that it is impossible. So there doesn't have to be police reports, child services reports, doctor reports, or anything whatsoever. It isn't called a "Dirty Little Secret" for nothing.

Now here is my big problem with this scenario and it being an excuse for ICA murdering her child......she left Caylee with GA and CA as much as possible. IF she was afraid of the abuse GA/LA or CA would heap upon her precious daughter, then why not be fighting to get out of that house at any cost? Why allow Caylee to be alone with her parents and/or brother? This and this alone is enough for me to scoff at the abuse theory. But not any of the reasons in my first paragraph.

Hope that makes sense and was not just another of my tirades!!!

:clap: for your post.

as to the BBM, I think the two can exist together and are not mutually exclusive, particularly if she harbored resentment towards Caylee. IF, and boy is this a big IF, because it is ICA we are talking about here so we will NEVER know whether she was molested or not IMO because of her propensity for tellin whoppers. Given that I believe ICA is a sociopath, it would not be surprising to me if she did throw her child to the wolf or wolves as a matter of convenience. An "I had to deal with it, now its the kid's turn" sort of attitude could be a reason for leaving her child in a situation she thought might contain abuse. Sociopath's do not love in the way we understand love. So why would she be concerned for Caylee even if (again big IF) her allegations are true?

I agree though, your point will go far in keeping the jury from buying this line of defense if that is indeed where JB is headed. If you don't love your baby enough to protect her, why would you love her so much that you would be willing to kill her to protect her? Just get a job, get an apartment and move out. This defense cannot explain Caylee's murder.

 

[tut med]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/ne...me-george-anthony-for-caylees-murder-05122011

CLEARWATER - Casey Anthony's defense team will likely blame the murder of Caylee Anthony on Casey's father George Anthony, legal analysts said Thursday.

Questions raised by the defense team Thursday morning indicated that they will say Casey Anthony covered up the murder, fearing retribution from her father after suffering years of abuse at his hands.

I hope this ok mods to post this

 

[Just Jayla]

I think I finally understand completely where the defense was going with Dr. Wise's and Danzinger's possible testimony in the guilt phase & it is consistent with what AZ Lawyer was opining. A good friend of mine is a sexual abuse victim and in her younger days she was Miss PARTY and promiscuous & could seem to be emotionally cold at inappropriate times. Her psychologist told her her behaviors and emotionless personality were a direct result of the sex abuse that occurred in her childhood and IIRC told her such behaviors were very common among sex abuse victims. So I imagine that the defense will say that KC was upset at Caylee's kidnapping and/or death but her partying ways and seeming lack of emotion afterward was caused by sex abuse. That said, one would still have to believe that KC was sexually abused.

BBM-And one would still have to believe KC killed Caylee, cause the kidnapping thing is ovah. LKB killed it for good.

Is the defense bringing this up simply for the penalty phase, or are they bringing the abuse up at trial? The only use it has at trial would be to use it in a way that explains an accident or SODDI.
Otherwise, you would have to believe KC killed Caylee and then use this info.

Then again, in JB's world, there are a lot of carts dragging around horses, so in his backwards sort of way...

 

[SoCalSleuth]

BBM-And one would still have to believe KC killed Caylee, cause the kidnapping thing is ovah. LKB killed it for good.

Is the defense bringing this up simply for the penalty phase, or are they bringing the abuse up at trial? The only use it has at trial would be to use it in a way that explains an accident or SODDI.
Otherwise, you would have to believe KC killed Caylee and then use this info.

Then again, in JB's world, there are a lot of carts dragging around horses, so in his backwards sort of way...

Well they tried to get the doctors' testimony in during the guilt phase to show her behaviors were caused by something other than consciousness of guilt but then they removed those witnesses from the list. That doesn't mean that JB won't try to get it in during the guilt phase anyway since he is a buffoon. Definitely will put it in during the penalty phase if there is one.

 

[tsitra01]

When you have someone like Jean Casaraz always siding with the DT they may feel they have a chance to actually pull their latest story off. She claims all the people on the street she has talked to believe Caylee's death was an accident.

She doesn't have anything to say about the Duct tape or the fact that Caylee
Was dumped in the nearby swamp in items from the house.
Funny all the people calling in to Vinny P tonight felt ICA killed Caylee and I
Didn't hear any f them cry accident.

I can't believe the DT is able to insinuate all this garbage while questioning POJ. This is beginning to be so upsetting. ICA is an evil manipulator and is going to agree with anything the DT comes up with if she can get away with the crime she committed against sweet little Caylee. MOO :maddening:

 

[Perelandra48]

Perelandra I think might just be on the money with this defense strategy so I looked the book up to order it.

While waiting for it to arrive I found these references for anyone that is interested in comparing the two cases and defense of--

Excerpt from Angel of Death Row by Andrea Lyon

The excerpt includes chapter one which is the case you referenced.

The woman who killed her child is named Annette Gaines. If the someone eventually starts a thread if the defense looks like it's going to mirror this case in some ways. I'll be happy to do some more archival research (unless others do it first )

JFYI

( mods please delete if it bogs down this thread or is inappropriate. TY)

Kat, I found my copy of the book--skimming through it, I found the section that I had referred to. My memory had been inaccurate. It was about a woman named Julliette Vega and the circumstances were that due to her mother's suicide and her father's abandonment, she was sent to live with her grandparents and their children, her uncles. When she was six years old the eldest uncle began to sexually abuse her. I believe he was an adult at the time. At one point during the abuse, her grandmother walked in, observed, and left the room. That and other abuse continued throughout her adolescence. When she was eighteen, her grandmother threatened to gain custody of her daughter and Julliette smothered the child to prevent her from being subjected to the family that had so mistreated her. At first, the death was thought to be Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. After some time, her guilt overwhelmed her and she went to a police station and confessed.

Ten years later, she murdered her husband. The prior murder of her child was used as an aggravating factor in the sentencing for the second murder which, based on it, was the death penalty.

This is in Chapter Eleven of "Angel of Death Row". Sorry for the inaccuracy of my previous post.

 

[LambChop]

I thought AF was just citing a list of reasons that are acceptable for mitigation purposes. I did not think they all pertained to KC or that they plan to use them all. If this were true then defense is not exactly showing their hand. Could be one, two, three of the those listed, or all. We just do not know. jmo

 

[Whisperer]

All this Hoopla about her coming from the Dysfunctinal Family is a given. Heck, most of us assumed that! We just didn't know the details. I still say this is all for the PENALTY phase because I do not see how they can get any of this informaiton on record during the Guilt phase w/o putting ICA on the stand.

 

[strawberry]

I thought AF was just citing a list of reasons that are acceptable for mitigation purposes. I did not think they all pertained to KC or that they plan to use them all. If this were true then defense is not exactly showing their hand. Could be one, two, three of the those listed, or all. We just do not know. jmo

Since I missed THE WHOLE ENTIRE DAY minus about 15 minutes, could someone explain what led up to AF citing this list? Or post a clip of it? Or maybe NG will have it on...

 

[angeldust]

I noticed KC appeared to be pulling her bra down the other day in court and immediately thought of her saying she used to wake up in the morning and her bra would be UP so she thought her brother had been doing things to her whilst she was sleeping but she couldnt remember BS if u ask me

 

[okiedokietoo]

Bringing this up during this phase is genius. It will make some jurors feel sympathy for ICA from the git go

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Bombshell~~~~~

 

[strawberry]

It's pretty up to date..talking about the decomp smell can, the serial killer wife mitigation specialist.

 

[Softail]

YAY! A thread for the Nancy Grace Entertainment show!

:giggle:

 

[epiphany]

Renee: what they're doing is influencing, courting t jurors, last time they will b speaking to them

 

[LambChop]

I think I finally understand completely where the defense was going with Dr. Wise's and Danzinger's possible testimony in the guilt phase & it is consistent with what AZ Lawyer was opining. A good friend of mine is a sexual abuse victim and in her younger days she was Miss PARTY and promiscuous & could seem to be emotionally cold at inappropriate times. Her psychologist told her her behaviors and emotionless personality were a direct result of the sex abuse that occurred in her childhood and IIRC told her such behaviors were very common among sex abuse victims. So I imagine that the defense will say that KC was upset at Caylee's kidnapping and/or death but her partying ways and seeming lack of emotion afterward was caused by sex abuse. That said, one would still have to believe that KC was sexually abused.

Yes, but that still would not explain KC not reporting it. Partying is one thing. Enjoying your freedom by announcing it with a tattoo is something entirely different. Do we think any abuse victum would go about business as usual while their child was in danger? I don't think because you are a victum you would want to see harm come to your child and would do everything possible to help find the child. Of course if she deliberately killed the child I could see her acting the way she did. Happy to be free of the responsibility. It really, really stands out like a sore thumb.

If defense implies KC was blocking because of severe abuse why was she so happy. Most true victums of abuse would more than likely disagree with that explanation. Your child is an extention of yourself and it is unnatural to act that it is okay that they are gone. Then blame someone else who does not exist when you are pressed about finding the child and when that does not work go after someone else. That more like a creative deceptive mind more so than someone who is repressing a memory. jmo

 

[strawberry]

Can someone tell me why AF listed her mitigating factors? What was the reason for doing that? Was she talking to a juror or the judge?

 

[luv]

USTREAM Live Nancy Grace
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/TIMER55

 

[cluciano63]

I hope they get their jurors from current pool so that NG can't be infecting any other people out there yet to be called upon...