2011.05.28 - KC upset during break when CA testifies

[Ricki]

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,821
Originally Posted by smolea
ICA - (she covers her mouth)...she's protecting the man that hurt me. she's gonna sit here and protect him. she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
DS - well she has to be given a chance, Casey...
ICA - she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
DS - i know.
ICA - i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
DS - you're right, i was wrong...you're right, i was wrong.
(camera pans - cant read. DS covers her mouth)
ICA - enough to be aquitted, so i can get away from them



I brought this over from another thread. Mods I don't know if this is OK if not please delete.

It seems by this conversation that DS knows KC is not right in the head.. Notice how she agrees with KC and tells her 'YOU ARE RIGHT, i AM WRONG' then DS repeats it, I think this DF is walking on eggshells with KC to try to settle her many moods including rage. I am sure this is being done often. JB is probably getting annoyed doing this and that is why he told KC she was acting like a child.

The part where KC says
'She's been giving the chance for three years and and has done nothing'. On the contrary, CA has lied and has tried to protect KC in her own way right or wrong. KC has realized she is now at the end of the hall and she is banging her head against it. CA is done with protecting KC. IMO

 

[Oakley]

Something is still hinky. Not more than 4 weeks ago I sat near CA and she disagreed
with every piece of evidence the prosecution presented. CA has known for years ICA wasn't where she said she was. Ca wrote cutesie notes to ICA and filled her jail acct with money. Has CA given up on ICA so quickly? Based on past CA behavior, you would think CA would be on the news blaming JB and CM for their opening statement. Do you think ICA wrote to CA saying just wait til you hear the opening statement I wrote myself- it will get me off! The only way I can reconcile CA changed behavior would be ICA admitting something like that. We've seen CA for three years now and this is just not like her. Was she threatened jail time for her nanny lies? Is she mad cause JB admitted there was no nanny. Can she really care so much for GA after his philandering, gambling, etc. that she would give up on her precious princess? Something is hinky. We all thought GA and CA were on the verge of a divorce. These people are all coo coo.

Sheesh Amil, say it isn't so. Just when I thought the rollercoaster was slowing down. And that was some rollercoaster ride today :crazy:

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

Not too worried about that after the Defense REMOVED their psychologists from their witness list in the guilt phase of the trial. If the psych evals done by the Defense experts were helpful to their client, they would have kept them on the defense witness list. IMO

Just a note - after the DT removed them, the SA retained them on their list. Great Golly Miss Molly - I really would like to know what went down during the Depo when both sides called HHJP and he agreed the info should not be entered...

 

[passionflower]

No they were not.

darn, will the jurors ever see the ICA that we see in action???

 

[Sharai]

I never thought I would be saying this, because I have disliked Cindy with such intensity I was truly ashamed of myself. I still don't trust her, but.....I've been thinking about Casey and sociopaths in general. I have had one that I know of in my life. I'm really starting to wonder if there are really 'people' born without a soul or conscience. I won't go into the spiritual aspects of this, but I'm wondering if, no matter how good an upbringing they get, it doesn't make any difference.

There is evidence to support the idea that sociopaths are the result of a combination/interaction of biological components and environmental components. True psychopaths/sociopaths lack empathy. They place no greater value on individuals than they do objects, i.e., if its no longer useful, get rid of it. The clinical diagnosis for antisocial personality disorder is: 1)failure to conform to social norms, 2)decietfulness, manipulativeness; 3)impulsivetivity, failure to plan ahead; 4)irritablity, aggressiveness; 5)reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6)consistent irresponsibility; 7)lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person. Three (3) of these symptoms give reasonable suspicion for this diagnosis. (from The Sociopath Next Door). Sadly, Casey is just one of many "charming" individuals happily living a parasitic life at the expense others. If she is found guilty (which I believe she is and hope she will) she will probably live out her days quite content using her charm and manipulation within a new arena. She will adjust, better than most of us would, to prison life. Stay safe folks.

 

[Joanner]

I just went back and watched the video of Casey's breakdown today. One thing I noticed is that, when Cindy walks by the defense desk, DS and JB are talking over and in front of Casey, in essence shielding her from any eye contact between Cindy and Casey. Cindy does not attempt to look at Casey, but it doesn't look like Casey saw the diss.

Anyone else care to take a look again at the video?

(Maybe someone already mentioned the hiding of Casey)

http://www.wftv.com/video/28058178/index.html

 

[LCoastMom]

I honestly think Casey turning her away on mothers day was the last straw..

I hope you are right. Cautiously optimistic at this point is the best I can do...

 

[Ricki]

darn, will the jurors ever see the ICA that we see in action???

If they see it, I believe it will be when LA takes the stand.

 

[Tiki]

I agree ... I am cautiously optimistic .... but have the nagging worry that maybe Cindy will try to be helpful to her inmate daughter when questioned by Baez?
But, the fact that Cindy did not do her usual trying to figure out where the questioning was leading before she answered and trying to give an answer that would be favorable to her daughter (even if a tad misleading or untruthful) ... and the fact that Cindy did not make eye contact with her daughter in any way and did not mouth "I LOVE YOU" to her, or break down crying at looking at her daughter .... I think there is hope for Cindy ....

ITA
Maybe CA's testimony was due to finally realizing that she had to stick as close as possible to the truth or she could be in trouble herself.

I think ICA was furiously trying to get CA to look at her, thinking she could get CA back "in line" with a look or a mouthed "love you" or some other trick that's worked in the past. ICA became livid when it didn't work. I think she really believed she still had CA wrapped around her finger - esp. when CA wanted to visit on mother's day. After all, it seems she really believes she'll be found NG and walk out a free woman. :crazy:

Maybe the $200 CA left for ICA was to send a message that they still love her, but have to tell the truth. I'll be surprised if one or both of them does not beg for ICA's life in the penalty phase.

I'm anxious to see what Lippman's motion is - something the DT objects to, but the SA does not. :waitasec:

.

 

[suzihawk]

my snip

that's what gets me about these abuse claims, ICA did NOT look devastated, she looked furious. if GA abused her, CA abused her and denied GA's abuse wouldnt you expect ICA to look crushed, destroyed, lost, and devastated? instead you got a girl having such a childish fit that with no sound my four year old was able to ask "why is that girl so mad?"

I'm miles behind here, but I agree with this and it raises a huge question I've had ever since Baez dazzled us with his opening fairy tale.

If ICA was so traumatized by the (alleged) horrific sexual abuse that she had no other choice but to create an alternate 'Casey world' to live in where her life was oh so happy, carefree and perfect, then at what point exactly did she snap out of it? Was it after she was jailed? Not likely since she continued the Zanny charade for quite some time after that. After Caylee's body was found? Her letters to Cookie tend to prove otherwise, IMO, despite her casual reference to the (alleged) incidents with Lee and George. Everything was still peachy keen then - everything was a huge mistake and she would be set free to roam the earth via RV with adopted Irish babies IIRC.

So at what point exactly did she suddenly emerge from this delusional 'Casey world' to the nightmare that her precious child had indeed drowned during her watch? One would think that would take years and years of intense psychological treatment to get from point A to point B and not a sudden and miraculous revelation that happened overnight.

It's late and I'm tired so I hope this makes sense since I'm not sure I'm expressing my thoughts very well. But it's certainly a question I'd like answered and I hope the jurors do too.

 

[Tiki]

There is evidence to support the idea that sociopaths are the result of a combination/interaction of biological components and environmental components. True psychopaths/sociopaths lack empathy. They place no greater value on individuals than they do objects, i.e., if its no longer useful, get rid of it. The clinical diagnosis for antisocial personality disorder is: 1)failure to conform to social norms, 2)decietfulness, manipulativeness; 3)impulsivetivity, failure to plan ahead; 4)irritablity, aggressiveness; 5)reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6)consistent irresponsibility; 7)lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person. Three (3) of these symptoms give reasonable suspicion for this diagnosis. (from The Sociopath Next Door). Sadly, Casey is just one of many "charming" individuals happily living a parasitic life at the expense others. If she is found guilty (which I believe she is and hope she will) she will probably live out her days quite content using her charm and manipulation within a new arena. She will adjust, better than most of us would, to prison life. Stay safe folks.

Welcome Sharai!

:greetings:

:wagon:

 

[MissJames]

Sad? Yes, but more so incredibly dangerous and emotional damaging for those who, by choice or blood relation, are in relationship with someone displaying Cluster B disordered behaviors (ie. antisocial, borderline, histronic, and/or narcissistic personality disorder). Nature and nurture are the most common components of these types of mental health disorders. Manipulative charm is their signature. Casey has held this family hostage for years.......

Amil, I so agree, something isstill hinky, imo. I will continue to reserve any conclusive opinions relative to GA & CA's testimony. In the back of my mind, I just cannot help but wonder if this is all being played out per a script, which they hope will place doubt in ONE (or more) juror's mind, subsequently resulting in a NG verdict.

Perhaps I'm just too cynical ........... idk - just sayin' .........

Cindy is doing more than I expected her to do,yet she still does not seem to want to be terribly helpful to the SA's.
She clearly loves Caylee and misses her.

How long have we been saying that CA's attitude and combative nature are hurting ICA's case? That every time she changes her story or says something outlandish it just makes ICA look more guilty?
Just maybe their lawyer was able to get this across to them. He may have gone over past depos with them and pointed out their inconsistancies.
If he made the case that the lies or misleading statements were hurting ICA,that might be enough to have them straighten up in court.

What I know for sure is, JA and LDB are smart,really smart! If the A's are trying to pull a fast one,watch out. Team Caylee will not let that happen.

ETA : every time I try to post in this thread ,even though I am not multi quoting, Sharai's post shows up as though I'm quoting it.I have even left this thread for awhile .Am I losing it?

 

[Pink Panther]

I just went back and watched the video of Casey's breakdown today. One thing I noticed is that, when Cindy walks by the defense desk, DS and JB are talking over and in front of Casey, in essence shielding her from any eye contact between Cindy and Casey. Cindy does not attempt to look at Casey, but it doesn't look like Casey saw the diss.

Anyone else care to take a look again at the video?

(Maybe someone already mentioned the hiding of Casey)

http://www.wftv.com/video/28058178/index.html

KC goes into the anger/rage crying AFTER her mother has snubbed her by not even looking at her and has reached the back of the courtroom where we have been told there was an affectionate display of some kind between CA and GA. She peers over and around the DA to witness this and then, and only then, does she start spewing words and tears for non-jury witnesses.

LOL.

And moo.

 

[Macushla]

I honestly think Casey turning her away on mothers day was the last straw..

I think it was when Cindy found out that KC knew from June 16th that Caylee was dead. I don't know whether she believes the drowning story or not. KC let Cindy hope for how long that Caylee was alive? I would imagine that this is what turned Cindy away from KC. Cindy went through 6 months of torture not knowing whether Caylee was alive or not. After Caylee was found, I think Cindy knew it was her, but didn't want to admit it. She then spent the last 2 1/2 years wondering what had been done to Caylee and how did she die, and did she suffer, etc. etc. I get a sick feeling in my stomach just typing this, can you imagine how it was for Cindy? KC let her go through this he** for 2 1/2 years. I am not surprised that Cindy would not even look at her when she left the stand.

 

[Sharai]

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,821
Originally Posted by smolea
ICA - (she covers her mouth)...she's protecting the man that hurt me. she's gonna sit here and protect him. she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
DS - well she has to be given a chance, Casey...
ICA - she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
DS - i know.
ICA - i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
DS - you're right, i was wrong...you're right, i was wrong.
(camera pans - cant read. DS covers her mouth)
ICA - enough to be aquitted, so i can get away from them



I brought this over from another thread. Mods I don't know if this is OK if not please delete.

It seems by this conversation that DS knows KC is not right in the head.. Notice how she agrees with KC and tells her 'YOU ARE RIGHT, i AM WRONG' then DS repeats it, I think this DF is walking on eggshells with KC to try to settle her many moods including rage. I am sure this is being done often. JB is probably getting annoyed doing this and that is why he told KC she was acting like a child.

Did Casey really say, "enough to be acquitted so I can get away from them."?

 

[momtective]

I did see CA leave the courtroom, embrace GA, then they walked away with their arms around one another. It was on the bottom live stream of wftv. I thought I screen capped it but apparently I didn't save it and copied another pic on my clipboard.

 

[Sharai]

I'm miles behind here, but I agree with this and it raises a huge question I've had ever since Baez dazzled us with his opening fairy tale.

If ICA was so traumatized by the (alleged) horrific sexual abuse that she had no other choice but to create an alternate 'Casey world' to live in where her life was oh so happy, carefree and perfect, then at what point exactly did she snap out of it? Was it after she was jailed? Not likely since she continued the Zanny charade for quite some time after that. After Caylee's body was found? Her letters to Cookie tend to prove otherwise, IMO, despite her casual reference to the (alleged) incidents with Lee and George. Everything was still peachy keen then - everything was a huge mistake and she would be set free to roam the earth via RV with adopted Irish babies IIRC.

So at what point exactly did she suddenly emerge from this delusional 'Casey world' to the nightmare that her precious child had indeed drowned during her watch? One would think that would take years and years of intense psychological treatment to get from point A to point B and not a sudden and miraculous revelation that happened overnight.

It's late and I'm tired so I hope this makes sense since I'm not sure I'm expressing my thoughts very well. But it's certainly a question I'd like answered and I hope the jurors do too.

I don't believe Casey has awakened. I think she is just furious at Cindy for not continuing to collaborate with her lies. Nothing makes a person with mental health issues such as herself madder than the truth. Truthfully, "she can't handle the truth!" When Cindy cried during her testimony, Casey was either stoic, angry, and/or faking tears needing to be wiped away (very badly, I might add). I believe Cindy's tears were real, a genuine, natural grief response to the photo(s) she viewed on the screen. I also believe she and George have had some sort of epiphany, they seem gentler, calmer, its odd.

 

[Sharai]

Welcome Sharai!

:greetings:

:wagon:

Thank you, Tiki! It's good to be here.

 

[Ricki]

Did Casey really say, "enough to be acquitted so I can get away from them."?

I am not sure. I can not read lips. Just took it from another post. I would not put it past her though.

 

[txsvicki]

I didn't get to see all of Cindy's testimony and have been trying to figure out what she said that upset Casey that much. From what I did hear, she didn't say anything against Casey that hasn't been in the media since the beginning anyway. She seemed neutral and only thinking of Caylee. It must have been the hug between George and Cindy. Casey realizes that Cindy is NOT going to get on any stand and say that she 'suspected' at age eight that something was wrong, but just couldn't figure out what it was. Cindy has to know that Casey is out for herself and is trying to destroy the whole family, that there was no accident that resulted in Caylee's death or she'd have said so when first arrested. Cindy may end up telling that Casey accused Lee as an adult of something, but that was probably a narcissistic accusation in trying to get revenge on him after she stole from his home.