2011.06.13 Sidebar (Trial Day Seventeen)

[countzero]

:banghead:I'm just now catching up.

Here's the thing that bugs me - people talk about George not calling the police that day and that being suspicious because he was LE. But someone correct me if I am wrong....wasn't LE called just a few hours later that same day by Cindy? Was it not the same day??

Correct. And not only that, but George drove the car straight out of the tow yard gate and went right over to where Cindy was waiting. They spoke about it right then. We know that Cindy had been in touch with Casey every day and had spoken to her the previous day. So George knew it was not Casey that had been dead in the car, and I doubt they thought Caylee had been in the trunk. They knew Casey was a liar and a thief, but it never occurred to them she was going to kill their granddaughter, imoo.

GA/CA picked up the Pontiac between 1-2pm. CA made the 3rd and final 911 call around 10pm. It was more than just a few hours. Hours to clean the trunk, throw pants into the wash, clean mama doll, place Fabreeze sheets into it, later said she sprayed a full bottle of it, rummage threw the car looking for incriminating evidence, remove steak knife and wash it and THEN return to work and tell her story. Drive to get Amy. Drive to TL. Drive Amy back home. Drive ICA to a closed LE sub station. Drive back to the As. Let LA interrogate ICA, and finally hearing, "Caylee was kidnapped", she calls LE as GA arrived there with LE driving up being told they were summoned for a stolen vehicle and thief.

That doesn't explain the dogs hitting in the backyard. I believe that it would take nearly 24 hours for the body to be decomposed enough for the dogs to be able to hit on it laying on the ground. Did GA leave the body in the car for days until it started to smell and decompose in the car? His background would never allow that to happen. If he had been involved in a cover up, it would have been done a lot better. It also doesn't explain why someone would not just come out and say it was a drowning instead of what the defense presented. Nothing adds up except her committing it alone.

I did an edit to the post and put a disclaimer on it. I made it up. It is only a fantasy in JBs mind. It is not true as of this date. JB may well decide to go with it or some similar version.

 

[grammieto5]

OK so I have been reading and thinking and reading some more. With all the evidence that has already been brought forward it seems as though the only thing missing is proving KC was in the swamp where baby Caylee was found. Would KC's cell phone pings prove prove KC was there? There probably is more evidence that could be shown but I think the SA's have shown quite a bit. I tried to listen to JB's OS but I just can't stand the way he speaks. Are there transcripts somewhere here on WS? Thanks

 

[faefrost]

Normally are all the witnesses on the witnesses list supposed to be called as witnesses or many of them just possibilities? I thought I read that Tim Miller, Dominic Casey among others are on the witnesses list and I don't envision them showing them up if they are wrapping it up for the State in a few days.

The state can also call rebuttal witnesses to counter witnesses or evidence that the defense calls. As an example if JB starts his song and dance about Caylee's body being moved by RK, or brings LB into the picture to try and claim that the area was searched, the state can call TM to verify that yes that area was under water and was not searched. Witnesses like TM and JG do not really bring anything themselves to the case in chief, as they really don't have any knowledge of the crime itself, but they are on the list to counter defense claims that may be made.

 

[allycat1208]

Gonna attempt to answer questions based on what AZLawyer has taught me during the last three years...

can the defense put on a whole case with witnesses lasting for weeks?

The defense can call ANY of the witnesses they have previously listed on their Defense List....but ONLY those listed...and I don't think they have enough to last "weeks"

Is this expected to happen?

I wouldn't expect it to happen....am currently reviewing defense witness list and going to take a guess at who I think Baez is actually going to put on the stand

If it does, can the state question each of these witnesses which will open the door to more incriminating things against Casey, for example Jesse Grund?[/

The State can cross exam (question) each of these defense witnesses...just like baez did....which probably WILL open the door to more incriminating things against Casey since Baez has apparently NOT LEARNED to ask questions he does NOT know the answer to...so yes, he will probably step in a pile of poo

Also keep in mind...once the Defense presents all the witnesses they plan on calling and rests ITS case, the Prosecution will then take another turn and have the opportunity to present REBUTTAL WITNESSES....

(At least I THINK this is right....:seeya

And than the defense can call rebuttal witnesses?

 

[kaRN]

ITA. If, during a routine examination of potential evidence, an analyst discovers something unexpected & beyond the scope of their examination, that piece of potential evidence should then be examined by someone else under whose scope it would fall before that unexpected piece of potential evidence is destroyed & irretrievable.

But to proceed - and then later claim "When I looked at it again, it wasn't there. It's not my fault - I was tasked to look for latent finger prints."

Sounds like CYA and sloppy work, IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't at least one juror who feels the same way.

We're talking the Death Penalty. If I'm a juror - I want solid, irrefutable work from ALL witnesses whose testimony I'm being asked to consider.

I think she was following procedure and if so she can't be faulted for that. Many of us are following this case exclusively but the FBI isn't. This is just case #???? to them IMO.

 

[gngr~snap]

Gah! I can't wait to see who will testify tomorrow!
Could the FBI have located the daddy? I think so. They have had 3 years.

What about NCIS. Didn't they get involved. too. ?
Have we heard from anyone from NCIS? If. not... maybe an expert from there?

 

[norcat]

OK so I have been reading and thinking and reading some more. With all the evidence that has already been brought forward it seems as though the only thing missing is proving KC was in the swamp where baby Caylee was found. Would KC's cell phone pings prove prove KC was there? There probably is more evidence that could be shown but I think the SA's have shown quite a bit. I tried to listen to JB's OS but I just can't stand the way he speaks. Are there transcripts somewhere here on WS? Thanks

I'm wondering about the shoes LE took.

 

[Mamabear1963]

okay, my old, tired brain is having a hard time getting through this thread.....

but did we hear about the root growth? I did a search and couldn't find it...

 

[luvmy4brats]

Just remember, JA said "witnesses ARE" which means there is still more than one witness to come. Plus there's still the rebuttal case... I can't see JB sitting down and saying "the defense rests" and not put on a case.

 

[2goldfish]

Talking about emotions here........I feel ICA is 100% guilty but my gut feeling has always been that she will would not be convicted.Have you ever thought of how you will feel if the verdict should come back NOT GUILY or hung jury? Honestly, I will be devastated and extremely angry. Justice will not have been served. And I can't imagine having to see JB walk out that courtroom with having the last laugh...Just curious if you have thought about how it will affect you emotionally? I cannot wait for this trial to end so I can move on with my life...it has consumed me.

I think about it all the time. I'd much prefer a hung jury to a not guilty although I do not believe they managed to find the only 18 people in the state of florida walking around with no more than a brain stem - I believe there will be a conviction - I just cant even guess as to what that conviction might be - I cannot un-know what I know so based solely on what they've heard so far I just cant imagine what they think - although for me whether I heard about it on july 16th 2008 or at LDB's opening statement, I truly believe one must, no matter what, keep stuttering over 31 days and duct tape.

I do not believe in ANY way that an accident scenario makes any logical sense whatsoever (please, viewers, dont point out that ICA is anything but logical, I am aware of it)


by the by, ever since trial began JB has had the remarkable talent of inadvertently driving points home for the State. I hope he continues all through his defense

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What about the KioMarie chick? She could be a final witness....where does she live now

With her Aunty Gonzalez. ........ :crazy: ..............

 

[allycat1208]

OK so I have been reading and thinking and reading some more. With all the evidence that has already been brought forward it seems as though the only thing missing is proving KC was in the swamp where baby Caylee was found. Would KC's cell phone pings prove prove KC was there? There probably is more evidence that could be shown but I think the SA's have shown quite a bit. I tried to listen to JB's OS but I just can't stand the way he speaks. Are there transcripts somewhere here on WS? Thanks

I believe the phone pings pertaining to where KC was only were specific to a roundabout area...like her house and a few miles close by if I'm not mistaken. I know some phones or newer technologies can specify an exact address, but not with KC's.

 

[kathyn2]

Whats wrong with that Wendy Murphy? We need a topic here about the HLN shows. She spouts the most ridiculous stuff and gets away with it. She says Caylee was not with Casey on the 16th and that Casey did not have her car on the 16th. She is intimating that Caylee was at home with george or the grandparents. She has cooked up this whole other scenario. Also, this other guess thinks the State has a lousy case and proved nothing. HLN is trying to get that murderer off and it makes me mad by having all these pro defense witnesses on day after day and no one on poor Caylee's side. I can barely watch that channel anymore.

 

[Z-sleuth]

And than the defense can call rebuttal witnesses?

No. Since the burden of proof is on the State, they get the last word.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Remember the night she borrowed the shovel? ICA drove around with poor Caylee in the trunk for at least a week. Then she borrowed a shovel with the plan of burying her under the playhouse. She brought Caylee into the backyard only discover the horrors of horrors, digging a hole is much harder in real life then it seems on TV. At this point she put her back in the trunk. Probably in all of this moving around is when she tore the original bag and leaked fluid in the car and in the backyard, leaving something for the dogs to hit on. It's probably when and why she doubled bagged the child, and where the smelly pants came from.

And just to give you guys some perspective.....

I live in Georgia very close to the Florida border. The climate here is very similar to Orlando, as is rainfall, etc.

This weekend (coincidentally, same time frame as 6/08), I purchased and planned to put a "double shepherd's hook" stand for hanging flower baskets in a front flowerbed.

The pole on this shepherd's hook is about 3/4" in diameter and the bottom section looks like a pitchfork. My intention is to stand on the pitchfork hooks and use my body weight to drive the hook down into the ground.

I made NO progress! I even tried using a mallet to drive it in, but eventually had to wait until 240 lb SO came home and HE was finally able to drive it in.

THAT is how rock, solid hard the soil is this time of year in the South!!!!

 

[Florida Native]

Wow Wendy Murphy is on HLN right now and said that the state wrapping up their case this early is them waving the white flag. Uh no. I think they are throwing down the gauntlet telling the defense to 'beat that'. IMO

On another note, my aunt is visiting from Alabama and thinks ICA is going to an appeal victory based on the Miranda rights not being read. Didn't the Judge already rule against the defense on this? I trust HHJP.

 

[RR0004]

Here's the thing that bugs me - people talk about George not calling the police that day and that being suspicious because he was LE. But someone correct me if I am wrong....wasn't LE called just a few hours later that same day by Cindy? Was it not the same day??

Yes, it was. I'm convinced that Cindy told him she would "handle it". Poor George had recently started a new job.

 

[LyndyLoo]

:twocents:Ohhh My Goodness...Wendy Murphy an attny on HLN is trying to say that KC did not have possession of her car on the 16th or 17th???..Yikes How could she even say such a thing??..She is on video with TonE in blockbuster that evening or late afternoon..They used either his car or her car to go there..and IF they used his car..guess where her car was?? In that parking lot at TonE's apartment complex...Otherwise how was she expected to go to work in the morning?? after TonE went to school..Oh yeah TonE testified he took a day off school and stayed in BED right?....Hummm guess Wendy assumes that GA knew precisely where KC was.....Wasnt George at work???


I get so frustrated with TH's and their speculatings about inaccurate things!!
And they yell it from the rooftops as truthes..Man oh Man..Wendy Murphy has lost alot of credibility in my book...Yikes..So many TH's have lost alot of brownie points in my book...Wonder who will be left??? as credible?..

I wont even address LKB..She lost it from my perspective long ago:banghead:
I group Dr. K right along with LKB..

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I just turned on the tube and it was still on HLN from this morning, and Vinnie Politan was talking with Wendy Murphy ...

Wow ... they have both done a 180 !

:waitasec: Has anyone noticed how "different" Wendy looks ? Her hair is long, but NOT as long as ICA's ... of course, a much lighter color ...

What's the deal with her ? :waitasec:

 

[Kentjbkent]

Whats wrong with that Wendy Murphy? We need a topic here about the HLN shows. She spouts the most ridiculous stuff and gets away with it. She says Caylee was not with Casey on the 16th and that Casey did not have her car on the 16th. She is intimating that Caylee was at home with george or the grandparents. She has cooked up this whole other scenario. Also, this other guess thinks the State has a lousy case and proved nothing. HLN is trying to get that murderer off and it makes me mad by having all these pro defense witnesses on day after day and no one on poor Caylee's side. I can barely watch that channel anymore.

Just got to mention....caught her on JVM (which I NEVER watch!) the other night and when Jane asked her a question, Wendy interrupted and said she had a statement to make first.

Launched into a very defensive mode about how she doesn't want to be MISUNDERSTOOD since she is "taking a lot of beating on the internet" that she HATES KC and thinks she was a HORRIBLE mother, blah blah....but then went on to state her opinion that the State has NO case...

Apparently, she is spending her offtime skimming the internet looking for comments about HERSELF!! :floorlaugh: