2011.06.17 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-One)

[grammieto5]

What ever sentence KC ends up with I hope 6 months of that sentence is spent with duct tape around her nose and mouth, and she is put in a trash bag and thrown in the woods, alive of course.

 

[sorrell skye]

If the flies in the trunk of the rotting pig can't get out of the trunk how did they get into the inside of the car?

I think the point that Dr. Huntington was trying to make was that once the flies fulfill their "destiny" by procreating, they bask in the afterglow and enjoy a post-coitus cigarette.

J/K

I believe he said the flies are drawn to the scent of decomposition in order to lay their eggs, and the drive to lay eggs precludes any other instinct or what-have-you that would assist them in escaping whatever closed environment they may be in.

 

[faefrost]

I don't think anyone can seriously take into account this witnesses little science project. Give me a break!!

Nebraska in September is no comparison to Florida in June. No way. No how. These Florida jurors will understand that completely.

2nd, he allowed the pigs to decompose for 11 days in the trunk of that car. How can he make any kind of comparison to a child's body being left in the car for 3-5 days?

3rd, the pigs were not placed in any kind of trash bags or laundry bags. Of course it would make it easier for the bugs to get to the body that way. Of course the stain would be completely different.

If I remember correctly, there is an outline of a woman who died in a hospital (or somewhere??) and the outline left was a white-ish outline... not black. It was from the fatty acids (salt, I believe?). So there are stains that are not black when dealing with a decomposing body.

Stupid question, because I lost track... but with all of his talk about his little experiement, did it not seem to do the defense more harm then good? Inparticular when he started talking about how he had to use junk cars that would never be used again because it was truly impossible to ever get the smell of decomposition out of a vehicle. did he say that in front of a jury? And if he did, did it just give the SA an opening to bring the jury to the car?

 

[Trapshooter]

Can the SA recall Simon Birch to remind the jurors that "hundreds" of flies flew out of the trunk when it was first opened at the tow yard?

 

[Miziree]

To the last witness's claim that to his knowledge body decomp can not be removed...a quick search on google for "restoration after crime" came up with crime scene services which reads:

What We Do:

Complete cleanup, disinfection and restoration after homicide, suicide, and accidental death.

METH-Lab decontamination and remediation.

OSHA and EPA-compliant blood
and body fluid disposal.

Stain and odor removal due to body decomposition.

Sealing and painting of treated surfaces.

Fingerprint dust removal.

Installation of new floor covering
in affected areas.

Graffiti Removal from most surfaces.

Develop emergency response plans and procedures for small communities and private businesses.

Automobile cleaning and deodorizing.

I would assume George knew about how to clean it up since he worked with these companies or at least knew about them. It really makes me wonder what he did to the car also not just CA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A company came into our house after there was a double homicide..they both were shot several times and lay there for a day or so. I went into the room after the clean-up and never smelled decomp or anything offensive..just saying...

 

[darnudes]

Here's the FBI emails about the stain in the trunk for those interested who've not read them.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21151220/detail.html

 

[KMouse]

I still REALLY want to know what is on the Home Depot video. It's bugging me.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Right after morning recess, someone - maybe JC on IS said it was a powerful spot to leave off on because of Huntington stating there should be 100's - 1000's of blowflies but he only found ONE leg.

Brooks just commented how Birch said when they opened the trunk, hundreds of flies flew out. I didn't even think about that. Then I realized that the A's had the trunk open for quite some time to air it out. That, and the fact I'm sure Huntington got to the trunk AFTER everyone else.

With that said, I don't think it's even remotely pertinent to this case that he only found one leg and I really hope the State brings it up on cross.

 

[Studio_Medic]

About the grave wax that can't be cleaned away per the DT expert and can by the pros.
Seems to me that all autopsy equipment including the autopsy table would have to be thrown out after each autopsy of an individual that hadn't died in hospital if that were the case. All gowns, scrubs worn, shoes would have to be tossed.
IMO grave wax can be removed by cleaning fluids designed to clean greasy stains on surfaces like the nylon carpet, that don't absorb fluids.
If not then the whole decomp cleaning industry is a complete scam.
The whole analogy about needing to replace the carpet in the car if ever you had a huge decomp stain was insane IMO. Who buys or drives a car that housed a dead body, stained or not but surely stinky?

I don't know if I can completely agree with you.....Being a Paramedic and having been on multiple death calls, the smell of decomp is horrendous! I have been on two un-witnessed death scenes where both victims had been not been seen for over two weeks and one of them was in enclosed in a house with no AC on, here in Florida and in the summer. After only having brief contact with the deceased, my partner and I both had to throw away our uniforms away once we got back to our station. The smell had permeated our clothes, hair, nasal passages etc.. Days later after multiple showers you could still smell the "decomp" in my hair. The stain of the deceased had actually embedded into the terrazzo floor. Everything in that house would have to be thrown away because the smell would have permeated everything that it could......no company could clean that up.

The last call I went up to the door of the apartment, I noticed the smell along with the flies all over the inside of the windows and quickly backed away and allowed the fire department to make forced entry in complete fire gear and breathing apparatus. Only one Paramedic/Firefighter made entry to confirm the death, the rest were getting sick..............Florida requires that a Paramedic must confirm the death even if it is obvious...but like they have been saying decomp is a smell you will never forget. God bless the police and coroner who spent more time with the decedent than we had to.

Also having been on several autopsies here in Orlando; everything is pretty much disposable in ME's examining room (instruments, gowns, booties, masks etc). As a matter of fact there is a "special isolated room, climate controlled that has a reverse air system" in the morgue that is especially used just for decomposed bodies so the smell does not waft throughout the morgue. The table is metal and the deceased is opened and examined usually in the bag that they were brought in.....after the autopsy is complete the bag is zipped and remains at the morgue until pickup by the funeral home, obviously someone who is that decomposed would be cremated, unless objected to by the family.

And in regards to buying a car with a decomp stain in it from a dead body...How would you know??? CarFax? If you remember early on the tow truck driver said that the cars that he received that had decomposing bodies in them had to be destroyed?

And yes you are right there are "cleaning companies" but most of time they clean crime scenes ( gunshots, suicides by gun, stabbings) they clean the aftermath of death. But once the decomp fluid has embedded itself in carpet, wood, mattress you will not get it out...it has to be replaced.

But remember this is only my opinion.........:cow:

Have a good day:seeya:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I turn on the TV and what is the first thing I see? JVM going on and on about the state needing to prove motive or they won't get murder 1..

The state doesn't NEED to prove motive- it's always nice for jurors to have but not necessary to convict.

I just want to palm plant my forehead every time one of these TH spouts off just to hear themselves talk and draw in ratings...

(for the record I think all that is needed for murder 1 is that duct tape- and I am a notorious IUPG believer)

:rocker:I couldn't agree more

 

[twall]

Sorry if this has been posted, haven't read the thread, just an update on the spectator situation from WFTV

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6699488&postcount=20"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.06.17-19 Today's Current News **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**[/ame]

 

[MomCat]

Interestingly enough, the stain left was the perfect outline of the Opossum... Was very spooky, and I actually thought about leaving it for about 1 min because it was so cool. Something like the Opossum version of the shoud of Turin.

I once set a mousetrap in the garage. Caught the little field mouse, Laying on its side. Decided to leave it till hubby got home and let bag it and throw it out. So mouse sat in hot un-airconditioned Texas garage all day. When hubby got home, went to show him...well, the little wood trap was there with a very SPOOKY perfect outline of a mouse laying on its side. You could even see the outline of the pointy little head and skinny mouse tail. There were no signs of decom fluid, the wood of the snap trap was completely dry. But the weirdest part and the bit that still bugs me is... there was NO skeleton. Not a trace of it
We still refer to it as the time we caught the vampire mouse and yes, Icky as this may sound, I kept the trap as a sort of WTH souvineer.

But now I only use humane live traps.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think the point that Dr. Huntington was trying to make was that once the flies fulfill their "destiny" by procreating, they bask in the afterglow and enjoy a post-coitus cigarette.

J/K

I believe he said the flies are drawn to the scent of decomposition in order to lay their eggs, and the drive to lay eggs precludes any other instinct or what-have-you that would assist them in escaping whatever closed environment they may be in.

Right, I was just thinking the flies were going from the trunk to the inside of the car around the back seats.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

:thumb: Reason number one million and two why I love WS. Someone always remembers what you couldn't and then posts to remind you! :tyou:

The Eunice Burns :cool2:

I don't think the testimony revealed that fact, it was said while the jury was out or the subject that led us to bring out the fact(known)regarding this witness.

But, it hasn't been "brought up" brought up, as far as I know. But, I wanted to also bring attention to the subject of your post 'cause I think it is veeery interesting.

:twocents:
:twocents:

Ahhh.....ok. Hopefully, JA will pounce on this like a duck on a cicada in Florida. (Ok, lame :crazy

 

[DIXIECAT]

She probably knew what would clean up decomp too. I wonder ... would gasoline, bleach, acetone, chloroform or other things available to them have cleaned it up and not just relying on soap and water? Someone so focused on cleaning might really know these things or be able to find out quickly.

Wasn't there some testimony that GA kept a type of dry cleaning fluid in one of the sheds? Don't remember where I heard/saw that....

 

[liltexans]

Right after morning recess, someone - maybe JC on IS said it was a powerful spot to leave off on because of Huntington stating there should be 100's - 1000's of blowflies but he only found ONE leg.

Brooks just commented how Birch said when they opened the trunk, hundreds of flies flew out. I didn't even think about that. Then I realized that the A's had the trunk open for quite some time to air it out. That, and the fact I'm sure Huntington got to the trunk AFTER everyone else.

With that said, I don't think it's even remotely pertinent to this case that he only found one leg and I really hope the State brings it up on cross.

But Huntington didn't examine the Pontiac Sunfire at all. He's basing his statements on his pig studies done in Nebraska in September.

 

[yeknomaras]

omg I love watching Richard Hornsby. swoooon

 

[STEADFAST]

Stupid question, because I lost track... but with all of his talk about his little experiement, did it not seem to do the defense more harm then good? Inparticular when he started talking about how he had to use junk cars that would never be used again because it was truly impossible to ever get the smell of decomposition out of a vehicle. did he say that in front of a jury? And if he did, did it just give the SA an opening to bring the jury to the car?

My favorite part was when he said about other places studying decomposing bodies, something like, "Of course the most famous is the Body Farm at Oak Ridge Laboratories."

 

[LCoastMom]

On IS JC just said The tow guy did say hundreds of flies flew out of the trunk. It was SB tow yard guy.

We know ICA had to have opened the trunk at least a few times and for sure when she removed Caylee to dispose of her little body. flies could have would have flown out then too. Who knows how many other times the trunk was opened. That could account for the lack of flies.

I was referring to the dead "early colonizer's" in the photo display this AM from the Dr's testimony. The flies hanging around on day 30 would not be the same type of flies that would have been attracted in the days after death.

Also Baez never mentioned that the "garbage" the doctor kept mentioning would not attract flies. JA will point that out.

 

[darnudes]

Right after morning recess, someone - maybe JC on IS said it was a powerful spot to leave off on because of Huntington stating there should be 100's - 1000's of blowflies but he only found ONE leg.

Brooks just commented how Birch said when they opened the trunk, hundreds of flies flew out. I didn't even think about that. Then I realized that the A's had the trunk open for quite some time to air it out. That, and the fact I'm sure Huntington got to the trunk AFTER everyone else.

With that said, I don't think it's even remotely pertinent to this case that he only found one leg and I really hope the State brings it up on cross.

Huntington has never seen the trunk or the carpet samples or anything that came out of the car other than photos.