2011.06.18 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-Two)

[ZsaZsa]

Only thing is that with no cause of death and all the accusations and unknowns in this case, I think DR G should have done everything, I mean everything to try to determine that and any evidence at all and I think that would include an open skull examination.

There is a large hole in the base of the skull (Foramen Magnum) through which Dr G could visualize the empty cavity. If a brain had still been present it would have been necessary to open the roof of the skull to remove and inspect the contents.

 

[adb263]

Yes, he even said it was an old person's skull, and not young like Caylee was.
I jumped a mile when he almost dropped it during his testimony.

Well I must have missed that exchange!! I am telling you it IS hard to follow here, watch CaseyCam, and regular camera all at the same time!! :crazy:

 

[RR0004]

In one of the jailhouse visits with CA & GA, Cindy asks ICA who cut Caylee's hair. I've always wondered why she asked that. Doesn't make much sense when the child is "missing." I wonder if that's why no drugs show up in her hair. I thought LDB was going to go there in her questioning when she asked CA who generally cut Caylee's hair, but she didn't.

A hairdresser had reported seeing Casey with Caylee...nothing more...and I don't even know if that was legit.

 

[logicalgirl]

Agree. And IIRC, Cindy also stated they had some fear of Caylee's grave being desecrated, which made absolutely no sense to me since many were making impromptu memorials for her.

I can picture some people thinking the Anthony's didn't deserve to have Caylee's grave and body, and moving it somehow. Think about some of those protestors. And can you imagine the "memorials" that would be held constantly at the gravesite? People sitting in vigil for months during the trial? The media there recording?

A nightmare.

 

[coloradoteacher]

So let me get this straight-
One point I have been hearing that might make TH think that Dr. Spitz scored points is that Dr.G didn't open the skull- I saw that JA proved that there is not a protocol that calls for this and in fact, "the book" had something in it that said not to do it. JA also showed that you can see in the skull without opening it (which Dr. Spitz proved by putting his finger through the fake skull).
2. That Dr. Spitz showed doubt that the duct tape happened after decomp, which JA countered that the tape was not attached to the skull and was loose and attached to the hair. The only comeback from Dr. Spitz was that the ME must have moved the hair and that the elements would have taken the tape off, which IMO proves that the same could have happened with skin cells on the non-existent sticky part of the duct tape.
I wonder if I am watching the same trial as these people are.

In addition, the jury, in deliberations, will analyze and talk through all of this. They do not just say well there was evidence of this and this evidence counters that, so cross it off. They will theorize based on the evidence. IMO, all of the defense theories sound great at first (think VT and how that sounded AT FIRST) but when given even minor scrutiny and thought, fall apart and are not very probable. This will happen in thsi case.

 

[jon_burrows]

You should read ICA's jailhouse letter about that, if you haven't already.

This is part of it;

My Mom has been battling us on the service details, religiously (and
without any consideration of my ideas or feelings on the matter.) Her
idiot attorney has been bashing Baez and my defense team for a couple
weeks now, without reason, and my Mom has done nothing to stop it.
We‘re the ones being made out to be careless, heartless and selfish, but
we‘re the only ones playing by the rules and trying to avoid stepping on
anyone‘s toes. Sadly, we‘re the true Schmucks in this for playing nicely.
There are so many details I want to convey, but it almost seems tedius to keep on *****ing. I‘ll stick to the main details, even though the one‘s
temporarily withheld are some of the most important.

I read her letters, they are packed full of lies. She could have given JB power of attorney (or whatever the legal term is) over Caylee's remains and then instructed JB to bury her with part of the 250k she made off of selling Caylee's pictures/videos.

IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

Well I must have missed that exchange!! I am telling you it IS hard to follow here, watch CaseyCam, and regular camera all at the same time!! :crazy:

It was when he was trying to re-attach the mandible - he finally put it on the shelf down in front of him or his lap to get it done.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Drugs could be found in the hair as far back as 9 months prior, and as soon as 2 weeks prior to the test. Any drug use more recent than two weeks prior would not likely show up.

I did not realize that Dr. G stated that drugs might not show up at all in deteriorated hair like that found on Caylee though. I was under the impression that it would remain much longer.

He said he just couldn't believe they didnt test her for drugs- he is of the mind that Zanny is Xanax that she used as her babysitter... his expert TH last night laughed, like it was a huge oversight that she wasn't tested.
I wish they would read the FBI reports before making such comments.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think it's a matter of the jurors being biased toward a witness one way or the other. I think, like me, they are intelligent people who are simply paying attention to the evidence. If the evidence (or testimony) makes sense to them, they will give it some measure of weight. If the evidence (or testimony) doesn't make sense to them, they will blow it off.

JMO

 

[MissJames]

I don't know if you saw his interview earlier this week, but he also said he was on the case before JB. (I know I said this earlier, but I didn't know if anyone saw it as the thread was flying)!

:loser:

I did. That's when I said "rut roh ".

 

[RR0004]

Ok...on that note...I'm stepping away from the computer. That precious child should be here today!!!
Love ya, Caylee Marie.

 

[pinkfly]

I feel bad that Dr Spitz handled a real skull in testimony today and I feel bad that he felt no need to wear gloves when he handled Caylee’s skull and I feel bad that he cracked her skull when he opened it. He came into this case with no concern for the deceased but only for the money and notoriety it would bring him. I think he deserves all the notoriety he is now getting for his performance.

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

O/T (sorry) Just a quick shout out to all our Canadian WSers - thanks for taking care of my boys this week - they performed their rentry burn and have reentered US orbit. A few more hours to splash down, but they sure enjoy being aliens in Canada - largely because of your fine hospitality.

eta - just a fishing trip - no bruins involved (ack!)

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Oh and, lest we forget the good doc said we can also rule out a suicide. REALLY? Uh, uh, uh!

Suicide is on the brain with the defense tense. So the great Dr. Spitz said suicide was ruled out. I wonder why? :waitasec: Jose Baez asked Yuri Melich is he'd asked Casey if she ever committed suicide? :waitasec: I'm seeing a pattern here, and it ain't pretty.

Since we KNOW both of them never committed suicide, why the comments? Could the defense team have thought about using it for their defense? Can they be so desperate they throw anything out there, even suicide?

Yes, I'm being facetious but only because the defense team and all their cohorts are being outrageous. What I want to see is someone place duct tape on a decomposed skull, balancing skull, mandible, and duct tape in two hands, and then the person figures out what to do with the hair. :loser:

 

[coloradoteacher]

Do we think that there are any other experts to testify once they have this Rodriguez fellow back on Monday? I am wondering which days to clear my schedule for the real fireworks.
Do WSers think the DT is going to call CA and GA?
I think definitely CA to get all that pool ladder stuff and the former fox news guy to show she said she left the ladder up.

 

[dr dona]

I agree. With the brain being decomposed all Dr G had to do was look thru the open foramen magnum. I felt during Dr G's testimony there was no need take off the skull cap--one could damage the skull and also she didn't want Caylee to suffer one more indignity. There was no medical reason to saw off the top of her skull. I'm PO'ed at DS for his entire attitude.

 

[pinkfly]

If GA gets called to the stand I hope he can hold it together. Sitting in the courtroom and realizing how it looks when others get mad is a good thing right now. If JA or LDB get to cross examine ICA I think we will crash this site. By the way: HUGE KUDOS for those that have been keeping this site going so strong and to the mods for helping us behave.

 

[TiaM]

Yikes, watching Dr. Spitz and Jeff Ashton go at it was like watching my grandfather and my father when they'd go round and round. The old doctor could have been my grandfather when backed into a corner, screaming, scratching, and tossing out accusations. Not a pretty sight. :floorlaugh:

Not the doctor's most shining moment. :shakehead:

You've all said so much, I can't add any more right now. What a bloodbath! Shoddy autopsy. Dr. S cracked Caylee's skull. Didn't take any chemical tests. Accused "somebody" of duct taping a skull but also said there was no duct tape on the skull. The hair? If he's so smart, wouldn't he know how the hair would fall during decomposition? And how the hair would be if the skull was taped after decomp???

He couldn't have been just repeating a story someone else told to him, could he? No, he can't remember the name of the victim, the names of the family, the interviews he's done recently. No, that can't be it. :crazy:

So funny you say that because, again, Dr. Spitz' son (also a Medical Examiner) was on Dr. Drew last night saying he (the son) concurs with Dr. G's finding of Homicide. Wonder how that goes over at their dinner table?

 

[countzero]

Could you please elaborate. TIA :seeya:

Wasn't ignoring ya, had to jump into the shower. I have a baseball game to photograph at 7 today.

Any who, Dr G saved a small piece of Caylee's bone to preserve in the event new information surfaces in the future. It's in the autopsy report or supplement report.

After Caylee was released by Dr. G, her remains were sent in a cardboard box to the funeral home where it sat for weeks on a shelf waiting for WS to examine them. Then they sat again for weeks while JB and ICA had a pizzing contest with CA over the burial. CA won, had Caylee cremated and held her circus act of a restricted memorial. She had a list with photos of people she denied into the memorial. Rumor has it, the As also had cremation jewelry made with Caylee's remains.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No, JA didn't miss the point, he was trying to get Dr. S to tell him where it is written that Dr. G should have sawed the skull in half. Dr. S was never able to tell him that. All Dr. S could offer up was that he, himself thought that it should have been done.

Yes I heard all of that but based on his experience a complete autopsy should include a look inside the skull and an examination of bone marrow.

As for the argument that he cares more about high profile cases and not as much about unknown cases, he said 'no, of course every case has people who care' about the results of an autopsy. I understood exactly what he meant and do believe, since this case was already a big news story, that it wouldn't hurt to do everything that may be needed in response to questioning. Why wouldn't Dr. G allow him to come into her chambers and review with him what she had done? I'm not saying that I don't trust her,
not at all am I saying that, but if she had invited him in, what happened today could have been avoided.