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2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five)

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I am starting to think it was on purpose that their was no COD listed yet a homicide listed.

I think they wanted a door left open in case they found out what killed her.

No, it is just that you don't understand the difference between cause and manner and what the ME is legally allowed to declare. It might be helpful if you go back and actually watch the clip of Dr. G., then read the autopsy report and her synopsis.
I think you'd be clear on her reasoning. You are welcome to disagree with her findings of course, but the picture might be more clear for you.
 
I'm going to ask this again. In ICA's defense claim, do they say that George found Caylee foating in the pool? It takes time for a body to float, due to gases in body, components in water, the temperature, open wounds in the body, etc. I hope that I did this post correctly, showing my source, etc.

I do not claim that this following information is the most factual, just bringing up the information for examination. Because, if it takes a while for the body to float, and they are claiming he found the body floating, there is a time element to explore there.


Here's some information gleaned from: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_a_body_floats_after_drowning

Base time period is body will rise off the bottom in 4 1/2 days.

Add 24 hours for every 2 deg F below 50-water temp.
Subtract 8 hours for every 5 deg over 55-deg water temp.
Add 2 days if he was thin build, under weight or under 7 years old
Subtract 12 hours for every 25 lbs overweight
Reduce this time by 15% if they ate within the last 3 hours and 20%
if there was beer involved.

90 deg F 24 hrs
80 deg F 48 hrs
70 deg F 72 hrs
60 deg F 4-7 days
50 deg F uncertain


Aqua



Great post here. I would say that an above ground pool in Florida in June would be between 80/85 degrees. Baez made it sound like all of a sudden they couldn't find Caylee and George went one way and KC the other, when they met in the backyard George was holding a drowned Caylee in his arms...which means if she was floating she was missing for 24-36 hours...if not that means George had to get in the pool and retrieve her...don't think we heard anything about that. Interesting concept!!!
 
I am STILL waiting to hear the FACTS and CONNECTIONS from Baez OS.
Clearly he placed ICA WITH Caylee at TOD which concludes that ICA was the last person to be with a live Caylee.
Then there is a huge gap and no real explanation from Baez as to the chain of events that leads us to finding Caylee bagged and thrown in the woods.
No real explanation WHY noone called 911 IF Caylee drowned.
No explanation for the 31 days partying, 84 searches of chloroform, the tattoo, the imaginary nanny and Mr Kronk hijacking remains of a toddler.
When is Baez going to explain and more importantly HOW will he pull it off??

Although the opening statements are not to be considered evidence when the jury begins deliberating, JB's opening statement is out there, lurking in the background, begging for an explanation.

By contrast, the state's opening statement was a chronological outline of what they presented with their case in chief.

JB has to address the statements he made in his opening statement. So far, all he's done is present expert witnesses in an attempt to undermine the forensic evidence. Not only has he not been successful in undermining the forensics, but the testimony from some of the defense witnesses has provided more support for the state's case.

If Caylee wasn't murdered, and her death was the result of an accidental drowning as JB claims, he will have to present something that supports an accidental drowning.

But, what can JB present to support his claim of an accidental drowning? He can put George Anthony on the witness stand, and George will deny any knowledge of the scenario that JB outlined in his opening statement. He can put Cindy and Lee on the witness stand and they will deny any knowledge of Caylee drowning. They can put Roy Kronk on the witness stand who will deny any involvement other than finding the remains. They can put River Cruz/Crystal Holloway on the stand to relate what George told her about an accident, but that's not enough to prove accidental drowning.

Then, we have the state, who will present a rebuttal after the defense rests. They will present computer and phone logs along with work schedules of George and Cindy that will disprove an accidental drowning on June 16, 2008.

The way I see it, the defense is backed into a corner. They can offer a theory of an accidental drowning, but cannot offer anything to support that theory. So, the jury is left with:

1. a dead child whose remains were tossed off the side of the road like trash
2. a mother that hid the child's death for 31 days
3. a mother that spent those 31 days lying to friends and family
4. a mother who didn't exhibit any grief
5. a mother who spent those 31 days partying
6. a mother who when asked where her child was, made up a kidnapping story
7. evidence that suggests that chloroform was used on the child
8. evidence that suggests there was duct tape covering the child's mouth and nose
 
Did I hear that right? I thought I heard JB ask a witness: "What other meaningless work do you do for the fbi?" Why did he say that?
 
Did I hear that right? I thought I heard JB ask a witness: "What other meaningless work do you do for the fbi?" Why did he say that?

JA had asked her if the results she took were meaningless because they couldn't determine anything one way or the other. JB then gets up there and decides to be a modsnip and asks, "What other meaningless work do you do for the FBI?". Like saying a test result is meaningless is the same thing as saying the work you do is meaningless.

He's a real jerk, ihmo.

P.S. That's me talking, not the "mock juror". The "mock juror" is convinced that personalities should not matter in this trial. I, on the other hand, would often like to strangle Mr. Baez. ;)
 
I have 2 questions, (I'm trying to catch up with the trial):

1/ The Anthonys are sitting behind the prosecution, is there any statement from their lawyer saying that they're figuratively behind the prosecution? Or does it blatantly mean they support the State in this case?

2/ Is it possible for the jury to find casey guilty of a lessor offense, such as manslaughter?


I may be wrong but I think... They don't sit behind ICA because of the wall bring right behind the DT. It's a portable wall, isn't it? Because I think I read something the other day about it being moved so close behind that the court sheriffs couldn't stand behind ICA as is apparently custom? Or am I wrong about the wall?
 
Although the opening statements are not to be considered evidence when the jury begins deliberating, JB's opening statement is out there, lurking in the background, begging for an explanation.

By contrast, the state's opening statement was a chronological outline of what they presented with their case in chief.

JB has to address the statements he made in his opening statement. So far, all he's done is present expert witnesses in an attempt to undermine the forensic evidence. Not only has he not been successful in undermining the forensics, but the testimony from some of the defense witnesses has provided more support for the state's case.

If Caylee wasn't murdered, and her death was the result of an accidental drowning as JB claims, he will have to present something that supports an accidental drowning.

But, what can JB present to support his claim of an accidental drowning? He can put George Anthony on the witness stand, and George will deny any knowledge of the scenario that JB outlined in his opening statement. He can put Cindy and Lee on the witness stand and they will deny any knowledge of Caylee drowning. They can put Roy Kronk on the witness stand who will deny any involvement other than finding the remains. They can put River Cruz/Crystal Holloway on the stand to relate what George told her about an accident, but that's not enough to prove accidental drowning.

Then, we have the state, who will present a rebuttal after the defense rests. They will present computer and phone logs along with work schedules of George and Cindy that will disprove an accidental drowning on June 16, 2008.

The way I see it, the defense is backed into a corner. They can offer a theory of an accidental drowning, but cannot offer anything to support that theory. So, the jury is left with:

1. a dead child whose remains were tossed off the side of the road like trash
2. a mother that hid the child's death for 31 days
3. a mother that spent those 31 days lying to friends and family
4. a mother who didn't exhibit any grief
5. a mother who spent those 31 days partying
6. a mother who when asked where her child was, made up a kidnapping story
7. evidence that suggests that chloroform was used on the child
8. evidence that suggests there was duct tape covering the child's mouth and nose

and....the one major thing the prosecution has proven without ANY reasonable doubt IMO #9 THERE WAS A DEAD body in the back of her trunk. I can understand trying to debunk everything else, but that fact has been substantiated by too many people without a dog in this fight..... It's one of the main things that's going to hang the DT.
 
Did I hear that right? I thought I heard JB ask a witness: "What other meaningless work do you do for the fbi?" Why did he say that?

Yes you did. Mr rudie pants did ask that today.
He was trying off throw what JA had did on cross. Pretty much JA made out what ever they examined (don't remember) was meaningless, but I believe the DT had them examine it.
 
I was just watching the Jason Young trial, and a fellow poster posted this link to a cross examination of a defendant from a few years back.. after watching, I just can't stand the thought of the defense NOT putting Casey on the stand!

Can you place JA or LDB in this prosecutors shoes?
http://www.clicker.com/tv/48-hours/the-cross-examination-904956/
This is fantastic. I cannot believe the part where the prosecutor says, "Did you think we wouldn't notice? Did you think we would not tell the jury how every time they left the room you began to smile and chit chat?" Mirrors Casey....
 
Last night I listened to the exchange between HHJP and JB concerning the hard drive evidence JB was claiming was "new". Bill S. and a lot of posters are suggesting that since the DT didn't examine the hard drive and those dates ,in particular ,that ICA will have grounds for ineffective counsel.
At about 7:08 in this video HHJP question JB about his computer expert "regurgitating"info from those important dates (July 15-17,2008)
JB says "Yes Sir" .To me ,that means the DT DID look at that info. What am I missing?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0T5n3WUA9xs


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T5n3WUA9xs&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪Casey Anthony: Murder Trial - Part 5 - 6/21/11‬‏[/ame]
 
Yes you did. Mr rudie pants did ask that today.
He was trying off throw what JA had did on cross. Pretty much JA made out what ever they examined (don't remember) was meaningless, but I believe the DT had them examine it.

:floorlaugh: mr. rudie pants....:great:
 
and....the one major thing the prosecution has proven without ANY reasonable doubt IMO #9 THERE WAS A DEAD body in the back of her trunk. I can understand trying to debunk everything else, but that fact has been substantiated by too many people without a dog in this fight..... It's one of the main things that's going to hang the DT.

I know!!!! I can't imagine why the DT didn't just own up to that right up front and blame it on GA.
 
This morning when the DT was standing, Casey started to do her "chest thrust tuck in pants" routine when Baez turned and said something to her. She immediately stopped. She did very little of her "chest thrusting pants tucking" routing the rest of the day. It looks like she is making a conscious effort of NOT doing it. I think Baez said something to her.

Let's check tomorrow to see if she can continue to refrain herself from that routine. Before today, she would "chest thrust pants tuck" at least 4 times in a row, fiddle around and do it again, every time she stood, the same routine for days and days.
 
Although the opening statements are not to be considered evidence when the jury begins deliberating, JB's opening statement is out there, lurking in the background, begging for an explanation.

By contrast, the state's opening statement was a chronological outline of what they presented with their case in chief.

JB has to address the statements he made in his opening statement. So far, all he's done is present expert witnesses in an attempt to undermine the forensic evidence. Not only has he not been successful in undermining the forensics, but the testimony from some of the defense witnesses has provided more support for the state's case.

If Caylee wasn't murdered, and her death was the result of an accidental drowning as JB claims, he will have to present something that supports an accidental drowning.

But, what can JB present to support his claim of an accidental drowning? He can put George Anthony on the witness stand, and George will deny any knowledge of the scenario that JB outlined in his opening statement. He can put Cindy and Lee on the witness stand and they will deny any knowledge of Caylee drowning. They can put Roy Kronk on the witness stand who will deny any involvement other than finding the remains. They can put River Cruz/Crystal Holloway on the stand to relate what George told her about an accident, but that's not enough to prove accidental drowning.

Then, we have the state, who will present a rebuttal after the defense rests. They will present computer and phone logs along with work schedules of George and Cindy that will disprove an accidental drowning on June 16, 2008.

The way I see it, the defense is backed into a corner. They can offer a theory of an accidental drowning, but cannot offer anything to support that theory. So, the jury is left with:

1. a dead child whose remains were tossed off the side of the road like trash
2. a mother that hid the child's death for 31 days
3. a mother that spent those 31 days lying to friends and family
4. a mother who didn't exhibit any grief
5. a mother who spent those 31 days partying
6. a mother who when asked where her child was, made up a kidnapping story
7. evidence that suggests that chloroform was used on the child
8. evidence that suggests there was duct tape covering the child's mouth and nose


I must clarify....


1. a dead child whose remains were tossed off the side of the road like trash

2... a mother who hid the child's disappearance for 31 days...

3. a mother that spent those 31 days lying to friends and family
4. a mother who didn't exhibit any grief
5. a mother who spent those 31 days partying
6. a mother who when asked where her child was, made up a kidnapping story
7. evidence that suggests that chloroform was used on the child
8. evidence that suggests there was duct tape covering the child's mouth and nose

9. a child who's body was not found for 6 months, because her mother stuck with the kidnapping story, never revealing where her body was.

10. a mother who only "admitted" the death nearly 3 years after the fact, sticking with the "kidnapping" story up until that point
 
I know!!!! I can't imagine why the DT didn't just own up to that right up front and blame it on GA.

Who knows, maybe they will. GA put the body in the trunk while ICA was in an aletered state, drove it and hid it, RK saw him, took the body to decompose in his back yard until such a time that he decided there might be a reward, then RK put the body in its final resting place..... Makes perfect sence to me if they weren't trying to tell us there no body in the trunk, that the smell was attributed to ICA eating a 30 lb raw hamburger with a bag over her head in the car that day, or that the water in the "trash" bag turned it miraculously into "food" which rotted.... And you know, the cadaver dog was in on it too.... Just sayin....:loser::floorlaugh:
 
Last night on either JVM or LP LKB was on the show. She made the comment that everyone was concentrated on the clothes that were found, but has anyone paid attention to clothing that was missing? Did anyone see this and does anyone have a clue what she was referring to. I know JB made a point that the shorts CA had on in the picture did not fit her anymore, but were these found at the recovery site?
tia
 
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