2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[suzihawk]

He saw the way TM was walking and IIRC he mentioned it in one of the calls.

Can you point out where GZ talks about the odd manner in which Trayvon is walking in the non-911 call? I don't find any reference to that.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8"]George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department - YouTube[/ame]

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Assuming that's the body, is it just me or does the one in the lower pic look like it's more or less parallel to the sidewalk while the upper pic seems more perpendicular to the walk?

I see what you are saying, but to me I think the second picture looks that way because the length of the body is partially obscured by the building.

 

[gxm]

Since when is it more important to do tox tests on the dead victim and not on the murderer? I can't believe what I'm reading here. Are people really suggesting that GZ did the world a favor by killing Trayvon because he was (in some peoples opinion) on the fast track of becoming a career criminal? Because he smoked some pot? We aren't talking about some wild rabib animal here that needed to be euthanized..... just a boy, not quite a man who was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong.
The NY Times article states that GZ's vehicle was never even looked at because his wife came and got it. For all we know it could have been filled with empty beer bottles, and who knows what else. The Sanford PD needs to hide their heads in shame for the rotten job they did.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us...pagewanted=all

Apparently, tox tests are often standard procedure for an autopsy.

On the other hand, if a person dies unexpectedly while at home, is the victim of violence or a crime, or is found dead with no explanation, then the case is referred to the medical examiner or coroner for an autopsy. In these cases, each medical examiner’s office may perform routine toxicology tests because the circumstances surrounding the death are ambiguous or unknown.


IMO, no one has implied that TM should have been "euthanized." I think everyone realizes that TM's death is a terrible tragedy.

IMO, the only bearing that the THC will have on the case is that it supports GZ's reason for suspicion. Further, it is likely that the SPD would have tested GZ if he had smelled like booze or acted drunk.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

Good point. Paramedics might have stuffed something into his nose to stop the bleeding. That's why it looks so misshapen.

There is no mention of that taking place on the forms filled out by the SFD that looked at Zimmerman.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't know why any of this surprises me......
Pure multiple choice. A little something for every theory. I'm done with this body location issue until I see a damn picture with something I can recognize as to location.

SBM
I know what you mean. I've only read a small portion of the new discovery and I see the headphones were found in Trayvons pocket and then I read they were found on the ground next to him.

 

[jjenny]

There is no mention of that taking place on the forms filled out by the SFD that looked at Zimmerman.

I presume not every little step is mentioned on the forms filled out by SFD.

 

[JBean]

autopsy discussion--->[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172326"]George Zimmerman's injuries, per leaked reports - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


THC Tox discussion---> [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172608"]THC in Trayvon's system - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Steely Dan]

This thread is moving too fast for me. So these are my thoughts up to page 7 of this thread.

ALL of Zimmerman's calls to report suspicious persons were in regard to black males. (while he resided at Twin Lakes)

pg 8 of 13

I saw a list of Zimmerman's calls and even linked in one of the early threads. I'm looking for it again (should have bookmarked it.) Anyway, IIRC, every call didn't involve a black person. He called about whites and hispanics too.

It means 'nothing'---other than the fact he was smoking pot.

But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

I want to hear something conclusive on this. I haven't seen a clear answer from an expert on what this means. IMO, if he had smoked two days before it's completely meaningless. If he was high when this happened I'd lower his chances of being the guy who started it.

Smoking pot helps people make poor choices. When you are high, you tend to do impulsive, irrational things. I grew up in the SF Bay Area in the 60's. I was a dead head for years and have seen and known a million pot smokers. And as an old hippie, smoked it for many many years myself.

If Trayvon was smoking a joint that night, it would explain a lot, imo.

My experiences with pot are much different from yours. I had friends who smoked in high school and friends, and myself, who smoked in college. I never once saw any of my friends get aggressive while on pot. I've been at parties of over 50 people with pot out in plain view and almost everybody smoking and not once did a fight or even shouting break out. In fact everybody was lazy and having conversations and laughing. My experience is that pot makes you a lot less aggressive.

"Based on the facts and circumstances outlined in this narrative, I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias charging George Michael Zimmerman with manslaughter." -p. 28 of 183

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

The entire point of SYG is that a law enforcement agency cannot arrest someone for using force in a self-defense situation unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. But an arrest was recommended in this situation, per the above.

BBM

I don't see that on pg. 28 did you mean a different page?

Perhaps TM was suffering from THC abstinence symptoms.

"Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle pain, chills, and decreased food intake."

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n1/full/1300310a.html

IMO

I'd like to know the percentage of weed smokers that experience this. I'd bet it's real low.

Not so...Chris Serino on p.44 recommends a capias against GZ for manslaughter and forwarded this and evidence to the SA.

This is all I see on page 44. It might be me missing something.

It's PROOF Martin was predisposed to break the law.

They both were predisposed to break the law. The only law we know TM ever broke is possession of MJ. GZ had this; http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

...The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted....

I think what that shows is that GZ has an anger problem. Where as TM doesn't have any record of violent behavior. Not all behavior is the same.

I believe it is on pg 37 or 38. I'll double check....

It's on pg 38.

HTH

It is;

But you are not 17 yrs old. It is the combination of being 17 and being high that makes someone impulsive and sometimes irrational. And TM's school records, showing three suspensions prove that, imo.

Not in my experience at all.

Wow. I'm trying to read everything and this has most likely already been mentioned, but on page 56, it talks about Mr. Martin listening to the 911 tapes and he says the screams were not Trayvon.

This is what TM's father says happened; http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witne...ermans-version/story?id=16371852#.T7WmwsX4J41

...The police report states that Trayvon Martin's father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man's voice frantically callling for help that it was not his son calling for help.

But Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, claims that is not true. The Martin family lawyer Ben Crump told ABC News that Tracy Martin initially listened to a distorted version of the 911 calls and said he could not identify the voice. But when he listened to a second tape that had been "cleaned," "He immediately broke down in tears because he knew it was his son calling for help," Crump said. ...

If he did in fact visit the police twice to hear different versions of call then I believe him over the police report. JMO

 

[Reader]

GZ was under SYG even the police said so.Following is not a crime.

But according to these documents Chris Serino recommended a charge of manslaughter and sent this to the SA.

 

[liedetector]

Couldn't help but notice another one of George's "convenient exclusions" in the docs- he failed to tell the EMTs that he takes Adderall, although this is clearly stated in his personal physician's report from the following day. While GZ allegedly takes Adderall for ADHD, he only disclosed his rx meds Temazepam - a sleeping pill / relaxant - which, it's my guess, he needs to bring him down from the speed, and Librax (for IBS). Me thinks Georgie really didn't want the EMTs, and particularly the police, to know he was on "college crack." I can imagine a myriad of reasons why, including the fact this little tidbit may have caused them to administer a blood test.

 

[m00c0w]

Well now that's interesting. I am assuming that is TM's body under the yellow blanket?

If so, and GZ shot him while TM was pounding his head into the pavement, how did the body get so far away from the sidewalk? Looks like at least three feet to me.

Not directed at you, MC, just jumping off from your post.

It's been suggested that his head was actually being beat onto one of those concrete water meter covers. The right-angled contusion on his head fits with this theory.

 

[suzihawk]

Apparently, tox tests are often standard procedure for an autopsy.

On the other hand, if a person dies unexpectedly while at home, is the victim of violence or a crime, or is found dead with no explanation, then the case is referred to the medical examiner or coroner for an autopsy. In these cases, each medical examiner’s office may perform routine toxicology tests because the circumstances surrounding the death are ambiguous or unknown.


IMO, no one has implied that TM should have been "euthanized." I think everyone realizes that TM's death is a terrible tragedy.

IMO, the only bearing that the THC will have on the case is that it supports GZ's reason for suspicion. Further, it is likely that the SPD would have tested GZ if he had smelled like booze or acted drunk.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

BBM

Alcohol and tox tests are required by law for ALL parties involved in any driving fatality. If it's not required by law in a homocide, it damn well SHOULD be. They shouldn't rely purely on an officer's ability to smell or on visual appearance. My personal opinion.

 

[gxm]

Can you point out where GZ talks about the odd manner in which Trayvon is walking in the non-911 call? I don't find any reference to that.

George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department - YouTube

I'm going by the transcript not the audio. BBM:

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a
real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can
give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or
he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking
about.

…

Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or
sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring…
Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area…
Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: OK…
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

IMO, GZ is referring to TM meandering around in the rain. Knowing now that TM had THC in his system, the meandering and staring (in the rain) make more sense.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[JBean]

please do not use any name variations for any case players and that includes the defendant. if you have changed the name generally used to reference a case player to something else- please edit your post.

 

[i.b.nora]

Assuming that's the body, is it just me or does the one in the lower pic look like it's more or less parallel to the sidewalk while the upper pic seems more perpendicular to the walk?

I think they are both perpendicular to the walk.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

Trayvon's autopsy report is included in the released documents. In it, there is a diagram that shows the gunshot wound was approximately 3/8 inches across, and the "stippling," powder burns that come as a result of a gunshot, was approximately 2 inches in diameter.

The burns are important because they prove the gun was fired from a very close range.

FDLE firearms expert Amy Siewert examined Trayvon's gray sweatshirt and gray hoodie and wrote this about the gunpowder burns: "Both holes displayed residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot."

Translation: The gun was touching Trayvon's clothing when Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

It is worse then that.

I am trying to figure out where that gray sweatshirt came from

Then ME says in two different places Trayvon was just wearing a Hoodie and a T-shirt.

 

[Reader]

There is a report from SFD concerning Zimmerman in that link but there is NO report from Zimmerman's doctor in that link which is what was asked about.

Sorry, I misread the exchange and thought you were talking about GZ's black and white picture....lol

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm going by the transcript not the audio. BBM:

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a
real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can
give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or
he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking
about.

…

Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or
sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring…
Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area…
Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: OK…
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

IMO, GZ is referring to TM meandering around in the rain. Knowing now that TM had THC in his system, the meandering and staring (in the rain) make more sense.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Was Trayvon on the phone at the time that he was "meandering"? And when did it become a crime to "meander" instead of hurrying home?

 

[Littleone48]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

Sanford Officer Michael Wagner pulled out his personal iPhone, he wrote in his report, and shot a photo of Zimmerman's bloody nose. It appeared to him, Wagner wrote in his report, that Zimmerman's nose was broken.

"I also saw that the back of Zimmerman's head was also bloodied," Wagner wrote.

Wagner downloaded the photo to his computer but never forwarded it to anyone else, he wrote, not until March 18, when he got word that the agency could find no photos of Zimmerman taken at the scene.

I wonder why he had sense enough to take the pictures, download them but didn't have sense enough to realize that maybe just maybe they were important to the case? I don't buy it.

Was the computer PD issued or his private one?

 

[HiHater]

I wonder why he had sense enough to take the pictures, download them but didn't have sense enough to realize that maybe just maybe they were important to the case? I don't buy it.

Was the computer PD issued or his private one?

And he also has to be the one who leaked the bloody back of the head pic to the media, IMO. I hope he's disciplined accordingly if he did...