2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[marlame]

BRBM.
Rudeness and entitlement? IMO, you can't get much ruder than beating the carp out of a stranger because he asked you what you were up to.

JMO, OMO, AND MOO

IMO...being killed by a stranger for innocently walking home from the store (by someone who first refused to answer a simple question as to WHY they were being followed) is far more heinous than being beat up.

Trayvon did not need to die! GZ did not need to be beat up. GZ should have used a little common sense instead of acting impulsively and rushing to judgment. At the very least GZ could have answered Trayvon when he was asked, "Why are you following me?" But he didn't...and that is where this sad, sad situation took a turn for the worst.

If there is any lesson to be learned here it is to NOT rush to judgement and act in a manner that could potentially put yourself or others in harms way! Approach others from a place of peace vs. hostility/aggression. With a little forethought and consideration for consequesnces to actions, many sensless tragedies can be avoided.

~JMHO

 

[beach]

Why indeed. I think when we see it we will know. I can't wait for the text records. Wonder why those haven't been released.....hmmmmmmmmmm. Oh and the full Dr. report. I have a huge feeling it's not all favorable to GZ.

teh, there is no conspiracy here to hold things back, I promise.

These docs during discovery come in spurts. Not all at one time. There is a LOT of stuff we have yet to see.

 

[Florida Native]

Yes. But I also think it would have had a very different outcome if TM had not attacked GZ. Or if TM hadn't been suspended. Or if GZ hadn't had pitbull issues and bought a gun to protect himself. The list goes on and on, but IMO the deciding factor in this whole chain of events is the one closest to the shooting. And with this doc dump, it looks to me that the evidence supports GZ's story that TM attacked him, and GZ was on the ground, being beaten and screaming for help.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Exactly. You cannot convict someone of second degree murder unless you can prove they committed a crime. Right now there is no proof that a crime was committed. IMO.

 

[tehcloser]

whoa nellie...hold up! lol

I can tell you legally speaking, the judge had to approve the redactions, per the Sunshine Laws. Neither side gets to redact what they want to at will. There is a checks & balances system here.

The public's right to access per the Sunshine Laws prevail. I can guarantee that anything redacted was done to protect witnesses or minors. There is no way that the judge would permit ANY redactions that he did not feel were warranted. IOW, he would not permit any sort of evidence to be redacted just because one side felt it would be too prejudicial.

Beach........that was my bad. I think they agreed to what was blacked out, but I can see mom pushing to have certain things not come out right now. There are big chunks blacked out in several places, it seems like more than identifying info. I may be totally wrong. I'm not a legal expert at all...just saw something that made my layman's eyes wonder......lol.

 

[vlpate]

--possibly answered by now---but the tan plastic 7-11 bag appears to be evidence marker #2, found on the sidewalk.

That's odd, why did he need an empty bag?

 

[Maxim]

GZ goal, as he indicated in his 911 was to detain. To keep TM from getting away. Why else call LE???? I do not think it was ever GZ's intention to get into a fight but it was his intention to keep TM from getting away and the minute TM started to move away, I believe GZ reacted by grabbing TM. That would account for GZ's injuries and TM's lack of them. It's possible they were not fighting but merely they fell and TM was trying to get away and GZ got hurt in the process. I think TM was shot because GZ had had enough and shot him. I think it was that simple. That would explain the witness saying she saw them running. jmo

BBM
We can only speculate someone's "intention." If you (general you) think GZ was following, you can't follow someone who has already disappeared from sight and you don't know where they are. You can "look for" someone.

I believe it's very possible GZ went to the next street to see if TM ran out the gate. He didn't see him and looked around to be sure TM wasn't lurking and had left the community. One witness heard something in the bushes.

I think TM was shot because GZ had had enough and shot him.
GZ had been a bouncer. In an upright, equal fight, I think TM would have been the one with all the injuries. It appears GZ restrained himself; got sucker punched and flattened, then beaten. If this is so, GZ had few choices left--(1) yell and scream, (2) pull the gun and shoot. GZ did (1) first, and (2) second.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Investigative findings show that on 2/26/2012 at approximately 1912 hrs George Michael Zimmerman inmated a nonemergency call to Sanford Police dispatch to report a suspicious person, Zimmerman reported a suspicious person, Trayvon Martin, whom he observed entering the gated community of The Reserve at Twin Lakes on foot, walking between resldences from the northwest.

From page 8 of 13 of Serino's report.

It seems that TM entered the subdivision by walking between buildings in the NW corner, instead of through the guard gate. I suspect this is where GZ first saw him. IMO he saw TM walking from the back of the buildings, with a large object in his hoodie pocket (we now know is the Arizona Drink).

I think this is what caused GZ to initially take notice. Also seems reasonable to me to want to continue observing.

 

[tehcloser]

teh, there is no conspiracy here to hold things back, I promise.

These docs during discovery come in spurts. Not all at one time. There is a LOT of stuff we have yet to see.

Well could you call them and tell them to hurry up? You know I am not a patient person.........and if they don't do it soon, well, I'm going to have to go all jumping bananna off in here.

 

[rossva]

The bag in that pic looks like it came from Walmart, not 7-11. No idea where it came from, or why it's considered evidence. Certainly does not look like the bag the 7-11 clerk put the "tea" in.

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/lo...how-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538946

7th photo from left

 

[tehcloser]

The bag in that pic looks like it came from Walmart, not 7-11. No idea where it came from, or why it's considered evidence. Certainly does not look like the bag the 7-11 clerk put the "tea" in.

Wal-mart bags are white oops and some blue ones?. 7 11 bags are tannish.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=7+11...&w=600&h=800&ei=F5S2T__HBKaa2AXW3vypCQ&zoom=1

 

[Florida Native]

Wal-mart bags are white. 7 11 bags are tannish.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=7+11...&w=600&h=800&ei=F5S2T__HBKaa2AXW3vypCQ&zoom=1

I'm not convinced the bag makes a difference, but here Walmart bags can be white, blue or gray. (I routinely shop at the Walmart nearest the area where it happened). But I have never seen them tannish before. Hope this helps.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Anyone know how this false information on the police reports will be corrected? Will they do it before court?

http://store.iuneeds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_19&products_id=976

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidenc...merman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=14&#gtop

 

[tehcloser]

I'm not convinced the bag makes a difference, but here Walmart bags can be white, blue or gray. (I routinely shop at the Walmart nearest the area where it happened). But I have never seen them tannish before. Hope this helps.

We need a bag expert.......lol. TY.

 

[rossva]

Per the 7-11 vid - it wasn't empty when he left the 7-11; it had the "tea" in it.

That's odd, why did he need an empty bag?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Could the brown bag be the one used to seal up Trayvon's wound while they were giving him cpr?

 

[wowitsdark]

GZ's injuries tell me Trayvon was a scared kid trying to get away from a potential abduction. GZ should have identidied himself. There was plenty of opportunity. I want to hear where GZ identified himself to Trayvon but so far haven't.

Except that he was quite close to the condo in which he was staying.

When I was a kid and became frightened, I ran inside asap and shut the door behind me.

Never would've occurred to me to do anything but vacate the area.

Several in this thread have indicated that GZ should have identified himself.

Others have said that the ONLY thing GZ had the right to do was to watch.

Which is correct?

 

[cityslick]

Anyone know how this false information on the police reports will be corrected? Will they do it before court?

http://store.iuneeds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_19&products_id=976

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidenc...merman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=14&#gtop

I hope that can was photographed before it got moved to the tarp.

 

[Florida Native]

We need a bag expert.......lol. TY.

Everyone should be an expert at something. LOL

 

[wowitsdark]

O'Mara said several times that he wanted time to look over the material to see what needed further redaction. There are entire statments blacked out, not just names and adresses. Why?

Perhaps the statements themselves contain enough information to allow people (reporter types) to narrow down who must have made those statements. Perhaps to remove any sentences with such information in them would leave remaining sentences that cannot stand alone and keep the spirit of the statement intact.

Who knows... that's just a possibility.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

Nobody knows what position he was in when the gun went off. All you can do is guess.

I assume you do not do a great deal of shooting. The slide comes back with enough force to shear a finger off. Imagine if that hit you in the nose? Think about the cycling action of a firearm. The slide moves very, very quickly. In order for it to "hit your nose" it would have to have been fired only inches from ones face. It this occurred, 3 things would be true. #1. GZ, without hearing protection, would have perforated eardrums for a discharge that close. That is a medical fact. If you do not believe it,you can verify it yourself. Have someone fire a 9mm next to your head with no hearing protection......GZ would hardly have been able to hear for quite a while afterwards. Officers likely would have noted this. #2. If the slide hit you nose, you would see more damage, plus likely the imprint of the rear of the slide. It comes back very violently. (as I said, enough to take a misplaced finger off) and #3. GZ's face would have had to been level with TM's chest, he would have had to have the firearm against his face, which would mean even inches away, his face would have tested positive for GSR (Gun Shot Residue).

I want to add, your next assertion will be that it was "recoil" and the entire firearm and not the slide hit him in the face. I will save you the trouble. Unless it was a .357 +P or a .44 Mag revolver (or larger), that is very unlikely. Semi-Auto 9mm's have very little upward recoil as the violent action of the slide and cycling it specifically intended to dissipate it, which is why revolver's have so much more felt recoil, even caliber for caliber.

What I am trying to say in a very nice way is that it seems likely you do not deal with firearms, as practical experience with them, would make you realize that your hypothesis cannot be accurate in light of the facts. I do not know where the gun was when it was discharged, but I am certain where it was not, and that was next to GZ's face (breaking his nose and giving him 2 black eyes), and not the person seen by 2 witnesses mounting according to one, and "strattling"(sp) according to another, the person on the ground, pummeling them MMA style ("Ground and Pound" they call it in MMA)