2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[Dr.Fessel]

I hope that can was photographed before it got moved to the tarp.

You know that is not a tea can. But they call it a tea can. Is it really the can Trayvon had?

 

[rossva]

There appear to be two different bags marked. One with a #2, and one with a #3. #2 is a tan bag, appears to be a small 7-11 bag. #3 is a white bag, appears to be a Walmart bag. To me, it says "mart" on the bag. Two (at least) of the Walmarts in Brevard County have switched to dark grey bags, replacing the white and blue ones.

Wal-mart bags are white oops and some blue ones?. 7 11 bags are tannish.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=7+11...&w=600&h=800&ei=F5S2T__HBKaa2AXW3vypCQ&zoom=1

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That's odd, why did he need an empty bag?

The police asked for plastic with grease on it. That is what it is I bet.

 

[wowitsdark]

This is the kicker and I agree. If not for GZ's actions of running after and confronting TM, none of this would have ever happened. Believe me when I say that this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. The confrontation was avoidable had GZ just listened to the dispatcher's instruction.
There is no way GZ can utilize SYG or self defense in this instance. Actually, they have every right to utilize them, but they will not be successful.

In the past, GZ had called LE and they did not arrive in time to locate whomever GZ saw.

That's why he would get out of his vehicle and try to maintain visual awareness of the person he was reporting.

 

[BiancaS]

YES! This is fascinating. We're not talking about two different witnesses giving two different statements. We're talking about the parents of Trayvon, one saying yes that's my son, the other saying no that's not my son. I wonder if they were listening to different tapes. I don't know, but this sure is interesting!


I also thought it was interesting that a witness was told that the screams came from GZ, not TM.

It was originally reported that Tracy listened to the original tapes which had a lot of background noise. The ones we have heard were enhanced, making the scream easier to hear. Once the parents listened to the enhanced tapes, they both acknowledged it was Trayvon.

 

[gxm]

IMO...being killed by a stranger for innocently walking home from the store (by someone who first refused to answer a simple question as to WHY they were being followed) is far more heinous than being beat up.

Trayvon did not need to die! GZ did not need to be beat up. GZ should have used a little common sense instead of acting impulsively and rushing to judgment. At the very least GZ could have answered Trayvon when he was asked, "Why are you following me?" But he didn't...and that is where this sad, sad situation took a turn for the worst.

If there is any lesson to be learned here it is to NOT rush to judgement and act in a manner that could potentially put yourself or others in harms way! Approach others from a place of peace vs. hostility/aggression. With a little forethought and consideration for consequesnces to actions, many sensless tragedies can be avoided.

~JMHO

BRBM. IMO, the evidence does not show that GZ approached TM with hostility/aggression. We don't even know if GZ approached TM. What we do know is that TM had no bruising to suggest that he had been struck or manhandled. But GZ did.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

You know that is not a tea can. But they call it a tea can. Is it really the can Trayvon had?

Im sure that is the one TM had. It's on the yellow tarp that was covering his body.

Arizona makes Tea. That is their main product.

Perhaps LE saw Arizona and wrote tea on the report.

I'm sure there were more important things going on that night than reading an ingrediant list.

JMO

 

[Florida Native]

There appear to be two different bags marked. One with a #2, and one with a #3. #2 is a tan bag, appears to be a small 7-11 bag. #3 is a white bag, appears to be a Walmart bag. To me, it says "mart" on the bag. Two (at least) of the Walmarts in Brevard County have switched to dark grey bags, replacing the white and blue ones.

In my 'Bag Expert' opinion LOL , that is indeed a bag from Walmart. The ones here are switching to gray as well, but I am still seeing some white and blues sometimes. IIRC, they were still white around the time of this incident. Most likely, a bag found there would have come from the same Walmart that I shop in because it is a mile or less down the road from the condos.

Now what could the significance of the bags be? I'm tired and can't think right now. LOL

 

[Phoenixfla]

The information about rustling in the bushes might be the missing piece. It's possible TM hid in the bushes and it could be determined to be "lying in wait."

The bushes information might not help the TM case at all.

May have been hiding something else in the bushes also.

Just saying I don't understand why he would have had a lighter on him unless he had a use for it.

 

[Maxim]

Was it a plastic bag? One of the evidence photos was one of a plastic bag like you get in a store.

IIRC, there were two bags--one brought by a neighbor to use on the wound, and another one.

Regardless, if there was a 7-11 bag in the store video and at the scene, I'd begin to suspect that is how TM got the upper hand. It's possible he swung the bag with can and/or skittles like a sock full of quarters. Might make more sense, especially since TM had no damage to his hands.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Im sure that is the one TM had. It's on the yellow tarp that was covering his body.

Arizona makes Tea. That is their main product.

Perhaps LE saw Arizona and wrote tea on the report.

I'm sure there were more important things going on that night than reading an ingrediant list.

JMO

Any idea why they didn't put the rest of his stuff from his pockets on the yellow tarp?

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't think MOM blacked out anything, all those documents came from the prosecutors office.

Good observation. Likely what happened is the SA redacted the documents and sent to Mom for his approval of the redactions.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

IIRC, there were two bags--one brought by a neighbor to use on the wound, and another one.

Regardless, if there was a 7-11 bag in the store video and at the scene, I'd begin to suspect that is how TM got the upper hand. It's possible he swung the bag with can and/or skittles like a sock full of quarters. Might make more sense, especially since TM had no damage to his hands.

When did he put the skittles and drink in his pocket?

 

[wowitsdark]

Why is it Trayvon at 17 years-old should be held to a higher standard than an adult- GZ?

~JMHO

At 17, had he committed a crime and charges were pressed, there is a very good chance he would have been tried as an adult.

Age-wise, he was months away from being able to vote, buy cigarettes, and serve in the military.

While I understand your point about stranger danger and what we teach children, I do not perceive TM as the type to be 'scared', or of the age or size that is typically a target for abduction.

He was apparently bold enough to spray paint lockers during the school day, and to go to school with drug paraphernalia in his book bag. His twitter and FB accounts suggest that he was experimenting with rebelliousness and 'verbal smack', for lack of a better term.

None of this meant that he was going go grow up to be a hoodlum or anything. I just don't think that his demeanor was that of someone who would still be on heightened alert for 'stranger danger'.

 

[rossva]

If we are getting technical about whether or not the Arizona can was tea or watermelon fruit cocktail - the yellow "tarp" is not a tarp - it's a "biohazard sheet."

Any idea why they didn't put the rest of his stuff from his pockets on the yellow tarp?

 

[TiaMarie]

In the past, GZ had called LE and they did not arrive in time to locate whomever GZ saw.

That's why he would get out of his vehicle and try to maintain visual awareness of the person he was reporting.

I understand that but it matters not in this case. The dispatcher specifically told him that they didn't need him to do that. Logic and common sense would tell any person that that means to stop following and/or running after him. Nobody can disagree that GZ should have stayed in his truck to wait for the real police to do their own job.

This is not the first time that GZ had followed or pursued someone in his desperate attempt to act like LE, which he is clearly not.

 

[wowitsdark]

BBM

GZ is not a property owner, he just rents.

Good point, and I guess I am not as well-versed in neighborhood associations as others here (we don't have one)...

But I was under the impression from things I have read in the MSM that it was the homeowner assn' / neighborhood assn' that had met and ultimately, from one of those meetings, determined that GZ would take the lead in forming a neighborhood watch.

I don't know if renters can belong to neighborhood associations, but I was under the impression that he was at least associated with that association... kwim?

ETA: Regardless... my point was that both TM and GZ were in an area that was not property owned by an individual for their own personal use, but rather that is corporately owned and intended for use by the public (sidewalks).

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If we are getting technical about whether or not the Arizona can was tea or watermelon fruit cocktail - the yellow "tarp" is not a tarp - it's a "biohazard sheet."

Don't you think evidence in a murder case should be treated in a technical way?

Don't you find it odd that evidence is set on a body and then mislabeled and photographed?

Why was it put on the body?

Was this some kind of joke?

 

[wowitsdark]

I understand that but it matters not in this case. The dispatcher specifically told him that they didn't need him to do that. Logic and common sense would tell any person that that means to stop following and/or running after him. Nobody can disagree that GZ should have stayed in his truck to wait for the real police to do their own job.

This is not the first time that GZ had followed or pursued someone in his desperate attempt to act like LE, which he is clearly not.

I disagree.

If the dispatcher wanted him *not* to follow, he needed to say that with clarity and not ambiguity.

Also... the statement about not needing him to do it was made *after* GZ was out of his vehicle.

You characterize what he was doing as a desperate attempt to act like LE. From my POV, he was attempting to stop crime in his neighborhood.

Your emphasis is on who he wanted to *be*....

Mine is on what I think he wanted to *do*....

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It mentions in the newsletter in evidence that Retreat View hires Sanford police to patrol and it looked like it was in the summer time.