2015.07.06 SMS confirms that CWW was a POI as early as July 6th

[ohreally]

My guess is his cover story was to be there to support MS. My guess of why he was there was there was to try and find out about the investigation. Perps often return to the scene of the crime, and also try to insert themselves into the investigation to try and find out what law enforce knows.

 

[PeskySlueth]

Thanks! I asked the question but I have to credit creepingskills for posting it in the Radio Show thread. I meant to credit creeping on the show but I was so focused on spitting out as many questions as I could squeeze in, I omitted mentioning any posters names. heh, I'm still learning. Tricia can fly by the seat of her pants with ease and nothing ever throws her off her game. Me? uh, yeah.. not so much. Hopefully, I get better as we do this more often. Thanks for your patience with me. xo

You were PERFECT!

 

[irishchook]

My guess is his cover story was to be there to support MS. My guess of why he was there was there was to try and find out about the investigation. Perps often return to the scene of the crime, and also try to insert themselves into the investigation to try and find out what law enforce knows.

What is your guess?

 

[Riversinthedesert]

Thanks for the info IQ . With LE being on a fast track with evidence processing, I 'm going back to my initial thought. If CWW was already a person of interest during the funeral, he may have been a poi prior to that Monday (July 6th).

They took the crime scene tape down the first time on Friday the 3rd of July. CWW was already in town by Wednesday, July 1st (according to Dr Siever's sister AL). On that weekend of July 4th, Dr Sievers' brothers tested the alarm system, MS was present. That happened on and off during that Friday night and on Saturday according to local neighbors. They also did some cleaning on that Friday (neighbors).

I do assume, CWW was present during those system checks. Why would he not be? Home security was his professional background at one time. He would be the to go guy to make sure the alarm system was running correctly.

So we have a partial Friday and an entire weekend after the house had been released for the first time. Then comes the day of the funeral (Monday, July 6th), and the yellow tape goes back up! I recall LE officers "grassing" through the backyard and looking for something. Cigarette buds? JR is a smoker, we talked about it. So CWW was a poi since at least the day of the funeral. (We know that then on July 12th, CWW was being arrested in MO for the first time and released hours later.)

Question is, did the yellow tape go up, as additional evidence was pointing to the second suspect JR? Or did the tape go up, because of JR,circumstantial CWW evidence and since now they had additional prints and possible DNA (on the alarm pad for example) from CWW- from testing the alarm system with the doctor's brothers- to compare against?

I just can't get over the fact, that CWW was already in Bonita since July 1st. Why was he? Was that part of the plan? Why?

-Nin

Nin, do you think CWW ever went back to MO between 6/29 and 7/1 when he met AL?

 

[ohreally]

What is your guess?

My guess is that he was there so quickly to see if law enforcement was onto him being involved.

 

[Lilibet]

My guess is his cover story was to be there to support MS. My guess of why he was there was there was to try and find out about the investigation. Perps often return to the scene of the crime, and also try to insert themselves into the investigation to try and find out what law enforce knows.

He followed the Jodi Arias textbook: "How to look guilty 101." I wonder if he also tried to get chummy with LE. Arias also called Detective Flores in addition to attending a memorial for Travis.

 

[Bobbywoo]

As far as evidence at the crime scene leading to Walmart, do you think the sticky barcode label on the hammer could fallen off at the Siever's and LE traced it? My initial thought was a receipt left behind. Possibly for JR's new wardrobe if the hammer was brought from out of state and not purchased here?

 

[Timekeeper65]

As far as evidence at the crime scene leading to Walmart, do you think the sticky barcode label on the hammer could fallen off at the Siever's and LE traced it? My initial thought was a receipt left behind. Possibly for JR's new wardrobe if the hammer was brought from out of state and not purchased here?

Whoa good thought. I even considered, if the murder weapon was indeed a hammer, possibly the hammer was left behind and had the bar code still intact.

 

[KateB]

Whoa good thought. I even considered, if the murder weapon was indeed a hammer, possibly the hammer was left behind and had the bar code still intact.

Even without the barcode, maybe if it were a particular brand and appeared to be brand spanking new. And LE checked and learned that brand is only sold at Walmart. In one of the earlier threads, I remember reading about how efficient Walmart's inventory distribution and tracking system is. Right down to the point of sale, which would correspond to date/time and register # for reviewing video.

 

[KateB]

It may be in the timeline but I have not looked.

TS is killed and the killers drive back to MO. Two days of driving.

CWW and wife fly to Florida to console bff.

I wonder where they stayed.

Airlines have compassionate fares for funerals but the price is very high, I feel.

Quite an expense for a couple to fly and pay for lodging. Maybe it is really inexpensive at that tine of year? A real bff

We can tighten that timeline a bit considering its only a 16-18 hr drive. If JRR & CWW left from FL 6/29 sometime in the 1am-5am time frame, they could have been back in MO that same night.

Sleep all day 6/30 or in JRR's case, sleep until he has to go to work at 5pm.

CWW probably flew on the 2nd trip, if the 7/1 meeting with AL is accurate. Or it may still be possible for a direct drive again theory considering CWW had a travel partner on his return trip, too, that could have helped with the driving.

 

[creepingskills]

Whoa good thought. I even considered, if the murder weapon was indeed a hammer, possibly the hammer was left behind and had the bar code still intact.

I'm not an expert, but IMO if a hammer was purchased in FL shortly before and used in the murder, LE would have enough evidence to support a first degree murder charge at the time when CWW & JR were charged with second degree.

 

[KateB]

I'm not an expert, but IMO if a hammer was purchased in FL shortly before and used in the murder, LE would have enough evidence to support a first degree murder charge at the time when CWW & JR were charged with second degree.

But not the right timing to convene a grand jury.
Remember Florida is a little different on 1st degree murder charges.

 

[creepingskills]

But not the right timing to convene a grand jury.
Remember Florida is a little different on 1st degree murder charges.

If the state attorney's office had evidence tying JR/CWW to a hammer purchased at Walmart and used in the murder then it really makes me wonder, why not present the evidence to a grand jury (by now) and seek an indictment for first degree? Prosecutors could always arrange to seal the indictment until all the defendants are in custody or about to be.

 

[KateB]

If the state attorney's office had evidence tying JR/CWW to a hammer purchased at Walmart and used in the murder then it really makes me wonder, why not present the evidence to a grand jury (by now) and seek an indictment for first degree? Prosecutors could always arrange to seal the indictment until all the defendants are in custody or about to be.

IDK but remember they didn't even charge the 2nd degree until 8 weeks after the murder. Maybe it was time critical then to arrest them quickly and now LE has been given the luxury of time by the federal charges against JRR and the extradition fight from CWW.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

If the state attorney's office had evidence tying JR/CWW to a hammer purchased at Walmart and used in the murder then it really makes me wonder, why not present the evidence to a grand jury (by now) and seek an indictment for first degree? Prosecutors could always arrange to seal the indictment until all the defendants are in custody or about to be.

Grand Juries are notoriously slow and can often take many months. They don't operate like regular juries, who meet all day, every day, on a single trial. Typically, in the case of a standing grand jury (which is the case in fl), the jury will meet a couple days a week and may hear multiple cases during those meetings. If there is a lot of evidence to be presented it can take a long time!

It is entirely possible, and imo likely, that the grand jury has already been presented with this case and has been hearing evidence for a couple months now, and may take a couple more before issuing indictments.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[No it's not]

Nin, do you think CWW ever went back to MO between 6/29 and 7/1 when he met AL?

I am pretty sure he left and traveled back to Florida. The tight schedule may have be part of the plan.

Perhaps he met his wife halfways?? Did she even know he was in Florida? Did he say he went to Alabama instead for example? He could have called her, told her what happened in Florida and that they had to go down there asap. In order to save time, he would meet her somewhere on the way down? She may have been "instructed" not to tell anyone. Who knows.

-Nin

 

[Dmacky]

They had to know who to look for first, and know they went to that particular store. I think MS said something immediately to investigators
1) that he suspected CWW; either asked by LE if he knew anyone who would do this or preempting the question
2) a neighbor or security video saw an unusual car parked somewhere closeby (the park?) and the license plate was legible and recorded
3) one of those two <modsnip>* left a receipt of some sort at the Siever's home, or it was tossed from or fell out of the car where it was parked. Even if they paid cash, the receipt would be full of info to correspond to video evidence, if paid by credit card, so much the better.

I'm dying to know what they did to almost successfully cover their tracks and especially want to know what they did to botch it.

I say <modsnip> because not only did JR blab and post so many stupid and potentially incriminating things, but going as far back as Ronnie Bolin's disappearance (and suspected murder) SOMEBODY/cww had to say something to his girlfriend, who told her father, who told LE and spoke with the media.

Faberge commercial that said "you'll tell two friends, and they'll two friends, and so on and so on..." SO many people seem to know so much, but some sort of evidence is needed to back up the statements. argh.

Seems like I'm full of retrocrap today, so sorry :/ :facepalm:

BBM
My thoughts exactly Felicity. What good is a Walmart Video tape, if you don't know WHO you are looking for. I am still very much under the impression that they found a Walmart receipt in CWW's house during the raid on July 12. That receipt would have everything needed for LE to ask to examine that store video, and subsequently hit "pay dirt"
The date
The time
And the LOCATION of that particular Walmart.

 

[lakshmi]

We can tighten that timeline a bit considering its only a 16-18 hr drive. If JRR & CWW left from FL 6/29 sometime in the 1am-5am time frame, they could have been back in MO that same night.

Sleep all day 6/30 or in JRR's case, sleep until he has to go to work at 5pm.

CWW probably flew on the 2nd trip, if the 7/1 meeting with AL is accurate. Or it may still be possible for a direct drive again theory considering CWW had a travel partner on his return trip, too, that could have helped with the driving.

Just curious where the 7/1 meeting with AL came from?

 

[Deleted member 159541]

It is my understanding that CWW did not stay in a hotel at the time of the funeral and may have stayed with friends or family of MS as arranged by MS. I don't know this for 100% fact but I remember it being mentioned to me a while back. Don't be fooled. If MS led LE to CWW, he only did it after CWW was already presented or suspected directly or indirectly as a suspect by LE. These two were thick as thieves for the past 30 years, haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.

Also very interesting that I have not been able to confirm with one person that CWW was seen in the office at any time or that TS knew who he was. Again, I think that was by design on the part of MS.​

 

[Stopwatch]

It is my understanding that CWW did not stay in a hotel at the time of the funeral and may have stayed with friends or family of MS as arranged by MS. I don't know this for 100% fact but I remember it being mentioned to me a while back. Don't be fooled. If MS led LE to CWW, he only did it after CWW was already presented or suspected directly or indirectly as a suspect by LE. These two were thick as thieves for the past 30 years, haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.

Also very interesting that I have not been able to confirm with one person that CWW was seen in the office at any time or that TS knew who he was. Again, I think that was by design on the part of MS.
​

Not that I needed convincing, but that makes the theory that CWW killed TS because he was somehow offended by her (not going to his wedding, being too uppity, etc) seem very unlikely.