4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[Dotta]

From all I’ve heard, I wouldn’t describe their calls as frantic, rather, persistent.

Well, that was my first impression when I read this bit of info maaaany months ago.

Calling somebody in the middle of the night usually means emergency of some kind.

But, of course, it might be silliness as most of you think.

But for me it was chilling, considering what happened later.

JMO

 

[ktm44]

Well, that was my first impression when I read this bit of info maaaany months ago.

Calling somebody in the middle of the night usually means emergency of some kind.

But, of course, it might be silliness as most of you think.

But for me it was chilling, considering what happened later.

JMO

How we interpret it has a lot to do with our age. If someone called me in the middle of the night, it had best be an emergency and I have a standing rule not to call anyone after 9:00 pm.

Young people don't keep the same hours nor do they expect their friends to be asleep on a big party weekend. I think it's just one more of those funny conincidences, like the DD driver showing up very near to the time that someone was entering the house.

KG's sister indicated early on that this was not uncommon behaviour for her and in one interview, she indicated she was aware of the contents of the messages left and none showed any distress or concern.

To me, it feels like young people living their best life and either wanting to share the events of the evening or maybe hoping they could prolong the party.

 

[Sundog]

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www.dailybreeze.com

That's good information to have for anyone who wants to contribute and is able to contribute. At our university, we have formal clothing drives to make sure that all our students have the formal clothes they need for job interviews and other occasions.

I do think that BK did own a formal business suit. I think that when he left PA to go to Pullman that he knew he would likely need to have formal attire on hand for various events, including internship/job interviews, annual conferences in his field of study (both in other cities and at his own university), etc. So I think he probably had a suit already, but probably still brand new.

JMO.

 

[Sundog]

IDK, my gut feeling is no. But if LE do have evidence of BK hacking their accounts then BK's toast Imo.

I agree, I think that family members have stated that Kaylee did this kind of calling pattern often, and that it didn't surprise them. Also, it was Kaylee's last weekend in Moscow before soon going abroad to travel before starting her new job in Texas. It's likely she was feeling nostalgic and reaching out to ex, and maybe something about the dog that they still shared.

And other posters have speculated that Maddie may have made some of the calls to see if Kaylee's ex would answer the phone if it was someone other than Kaylee who was the caller.

JMO.

 

[gremlin444]

Reread the PCA today and was thinking about a few things that we've debated off and on again.

RE: DM saying she heard who she thought was Kaylee saying something along the lines of "There's someone here" but the PCA author saying there is a possibility it could be Xana based on her phone activity. Many people here have mentioned that they felt DM would definitely know whose voice she was hearing because these were her friends and roommates that she knew well, plus she would be able to tell the difference between a voice coming from Xana's room/area vs upstairs. I live in a 2 story house with 4 men--husband, 21 yr old son, 16 yo son (already has deep voice), and a male family friend. I have long Covid, so many weekend mornings I end up sleeping very late and everyone else is already up. When I first wake up or if I am woken up during that time thanks to my cat walking on me, I know I sometimes have problems distinguishing voices--both identity and location. So I unconsciously go by context clues when my brain tries to identify them, things like "right before I heard voice X, I heard a hair dryer in the bathroom, and the only person who uses a hairdryer is son #1, so it was likely him I heard talking." DM said that she woke up to what she thought was the sound of someone playing with the dog upstairs--so I think there is a natural unconscious tendency to assume a voice she heard right after sounds of Kaylee's dog as being Kaylee's voice. She just was woken up, her brain isn't fully switched on, so the brain normally takes the easiest route. If Xana had just gone to the bathroom, heard a sound and walked just into the living room, her voice would be heard pretty well from DM's room but with some wall muffling, similar to coming from upstairs. To a groggy, possibly hungover brain, easy to have problems figuring out.

I also wonder whether anyone in the house ran a white noise machine either in their room or outside their room in a hall. Obv if DM had one in her room that was running when she opened her door when the intruder went by, they would have heard it as they walked past her door so that isn't too likely. But she could have had one running, and then switched it off before she opened her door the first time to try to see if she could figure out what was going on. We run one in our hallway that definitely makes it hard for me to tell direction of voices and sometimes identity. Or if she slept with earbuds in playing white noise or low music like I know my one teen does (horrible habit, he won't listen to me).

 

[10ofRods]

Well, that was my first impression when I read this bit of info maaaany months ago.

Calling somebody in the middle of the night usually means emergency of some kind.

But, of course, it might be silliness as most of you think.

But for me it was chilling, considering what happened later.

JMO

College students call each other at all hours. Kaylee's parents said she would deliberately call and wake them up (and make them laugh). It's not an emergency. It's a cultural practice of college students (and other young people - and some older people).

Kaylee's parents (posted the article above) say they think she was considering getting back with JP. They maintain that the two remained great friends. It was spun in the media as a potential clue, of course (and so it did seem chilling - were they fighting? Nope - parents say they were chummy).

<modsnip>

IMO

 

[10ofRods]

Reread the PCA today and was thinking about a few things that we've debated off and on again.

RE: DM saying she heard who she thought was Kaylee saying something along the lines of "There's someone here" but the PCA author saying there is a possibility it could be Xana based on her phone activity. Many people here have mentioned that they felt DM would definitely know whose voice she was hearing because these were her friends and roommates that she knew well, plus she would be able to tell the difference between a voice coming from Xana's room/area vs upstairs. I live in a 2 story house with 4 men--husband, 21 yr old son, 16 yo son (already has deep voice), and a male family friend. I have long Covid, so many weekend mornings I end up sleeping very late and everyone else is already up. When I first wake up or if I am woken up during that time thanks to my cat walking on me, I know I sometimes have problems distinguishing voices--both identity and location. So I unconsciously go by context clues when my brain tries to identify them, things like "right before I heard voice X, I heard a hair dryer in the bathroom, and the only person who uses a hairdryer is son #1, so it was likely him I heard talking." DM said that she woke up to what she thought was the sound of someone playing with the dog upstairs--so I think there is a natural unconscious tendency to assume a voice she heard right after sounds of Kaylee's dog as being Kaylee's voice. She just was woken up, her brain isn't fully switched on, so the brain normally takes the easiest route. If Xana had just gone to the bathroom, heard a sound and walked just into the living room, her voice would be heard pretty well from DM's room but with some wall muffling, similar to coming from upstairs. To a groggy, possibly hungover brain, easy to have problems figuring out.

I also wonder whether anyone in the house ran a white noise machine either in their room or outside their room in a hall. Obv if DM had one in her room that was running when she opened her door when the intruder went by, they would have heard it as they walked past her door so that isn't too likely. But she could have had one running, and then switched it off before she opened her door the first time to try to see if she could figure out what was going on. We run one in our hallway that definitely makes it hard for me to tell direction of voices and sometimes identity. Or if she slept with earbuds in playing white noise or low music like I know my one teen does (horrible habit, he won't listen to me).

Very thoughtful post.

Speculation ahead.

Made me return to think about "dog play" noises. To both of our dogs, "play" means having a toy and growling and trying to kill it, jumping around, growling the whole time (we've trained them to stop short of barking, but the growling makes them so happy - it's the first thing they do in the morning and the last thing one of them does at night). They prefer having something to tug on, and can play the game solo if necessary.

ANYWAY, if you heard our dogs (esp. the young one) "playing" and you knew them, you'd think they were playing even if they were really trying to ankle bite an intruder.

I have wondered whether Kaylee was actually in her room with Murphy. She hears something. Murphy is going full on growling and jumping around (which our dogs sometimes try to do with a stranger entering the house - we always joke that their play is guard dog practice). She keeps Murphy in the room and enters Maddie's room.

It's even possible that the killer had to contend with Murphy briefly, before locking Murphy up (this would make the killer an animal lover and would have thrown him off a bit, causing him to put on speed). I am guessing that, Marine-style, the killer had timed his actions (Marines aim for lethal incapacitation within 15-30 seconds).

OTOH, this scenario now has Kaylee up and moving, and while it explains her (SG-alleged) injuries and the whimpering (which had to be rather loud if captured by the neighbor's camera mic), it would have deposited more blood on the murderer than if Kaylee were in bed (which is the scenario I usually use in my head). Things almost never go down as I imagine them, though.

<modsnip: no source link>

SPECULATION.

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[Charlot123]

Here is what bothers me.

Surviving roommate of slain University of Idaho students fights subpoena to testify in Kohberger's defense

The surviving roommate's attorney says she doesn't have any evidence that would be useful to the suspect's defense.

www.krem.com

You’d think that if there are two witnesses who are survivors from that night, one would need to hear both testimonies.

Cutting them to one only raises questions.
If DP is on the table all t’s have to be crossed.

JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Here is what bothers me.

Surviving roommate of slain University of Idaho students fights subpoena to testify in Kohberger's defense

The surviving roommate's attorney says she doesn't have any evidence that would be useful to the suspect's defense.

www.krem.com

You’d think that if there are two witnesses who are survivors from that night, one would need to hear both testimonies.

Cutting them to one only raises questions.
If DP is on the table all t’s have to be crossed.

JMO.

I think it is a moot point because the subpoena was for the Preliminary Hearing which didn't take place.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Here is what bothers me.

Surviving roommate of slain University of Idaho students fights subpoena to testify in Kohberger's defense

The surviving roommate's attorney says she doesn't have any evidence that would be useful to the suspect's defense.

www.krem.com

You’d think that if there are two witnesses who are survivors from that night, one would need to hear both testimonies.

Cutting them to one only raises questions.
If DP is on the table all t’s have to be crossed.

JMO.

Well, if one of them witnessed nothing relevant, no, I wouldn't expect a judge to compel them to be witnesses. It's going to be a long trial as it is.

The Defense could call BF in order to establish she saw or heard nothing specific to the murders. Even if she saw someone outside the house at some point in the evening, she would have to try and establish exactly when. What if she has no clue? "Someone walked past my window after 1 am, no clue when" would not be testimony of use at trial. Unless the Defense were trying to sneak in a SODDI theory - but the grilling poor BF would get over what she saw, and when, would make it so easy to impeach her. Dreadful if the Defense decides to call her if she was completely unaware until 11 am that anything had happened.

What will likely happen if she is called is that the empathy/sympathy level of the jurors will reach the Moon. That's not helpful to the Defense. And the State isn't going to call her if she adds nothing to the case. Trials are not set up according to some outside sense of "who should be called." The neighbors, too? They each have a bit of knowledge. All of the people who called or texted any of the roommates within...what period of time? All of the students at WSU who knew Kohberger (because one of them has something relevant)? What if the the professor a WSU is called because he knows something relevant (by either side). Should the other professors who also had classes with Kohberger be called?

This is not how trials are set up. The State calls the witnesses it needs for its prosecution and the Defense calls people for Kohberger. Since BF apparently did see *something* during the night - or thought she did - and since police DO talk to everyone they can talk to, her words are in the reports. If the Defense calls her, her information better be pretty important - because otherwise, she's likely to help the State. I am hoping neither roommate will be called (and I think the footprint evidence will obviate the need to call DM).

IMO.

 

[Gemmie]

There were also frantic calls to K's ex boyfriend, but I already forgot the time of them.
Both K&M called him.

This is the first I've heard that the calls to K's ex were frantic. Even Google doesn't know that when I asked. LOL Do you have a link to support that? I'd really like to see if if so. I found the opposite:

Goncalves’ family has now shed new light on why she might have been calling her ex-boyfriend Jack DuCoeur in the hours before she was brutally attacked. In a sit-down interview with the YouTube channel Chronicles of Olivia — filmed two days before Mr Kohberger’s arrest– the Goncalves said their daughter broke up with Mr DuCoeur ahead of her post-graduation move to Texas, but had later voiced concerns that she “might not ever find another Jack” and was considering getting back together with him.

Kaylee Goncalves’ family reiterate support for Idaho murder victim’s ex-boyfriend

The slain student had voiced concerns that she ‘might not ever find another Jack’ and was considering getting back together with him, her family believes

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

Well, that was my first impression when I read this bit of info maaaany months ago.

Calling somebody in the middle of the night usually means emergency of some kind.

But, of course, it might be silliness as most of you think.

But for me it was chilling, considering what happened later.

JMO

Calling somebody in the middle of the night when you are a teenager or a student is normal. Us calling would be an emergency because we think about how the other person might be feeling when we wake them up. (And they are older, and they might have insomnia. But tbh, I started considering others’ feelings re. night calls after I got my first child, and that’s when “being kept awake at night” suddenly got a different meaning.)

Young people usually go to bed later and sleep in, and I can’t even say that waking someone up at night is egotism - just a different perception of the world. And also, “friendship is round-the-clock” concept.

So, no, a night call in their group is not an emergency. And, I also observed how young men behave when parting ways. Not to tarnish the relationship between JD and KG, because if K’s mom believes they’d essentially get together, I accept it. But whenever one of sons would initiate the break up with a girlfriend, it would be for someone else. If a girl would dump him, it would be, “I wanted to be together forever, I am so sad… now, where do I find another one?” It is also an age factor, and the fact that there are many young women around. In short, if the relationship between K and J was normal, not abusive and not controlling (and so far I never heard anything to the contrary), he’d have zero reason to kill her, just nada. He would be either mourning the loss of the relationship but subconsciously, putting out feelers for the new one, or being sad but hopeful for getting back together. No reason to kill her, her friend and two roommates. Plus, JD knew the family, K’s friends, housemates. Would he ever plan it so sloppily?

Actually, JD is the one off my list. And I sympathize with him, and feel that it is a huge tragedy for him, as now K is neither an ex- nor “maybe still”. She is his first love who departed too young, in a horrible situation, and all that he has left from his first love is the dog, Murphy.

 

[schooling]

Well, that was my first impression when I read this bit of info maaaany months ago.

Calling somebody in the middle of the night usually means emergency of some kind.

But, of course, it might be silliness as most of you think.

But for me it was chilling, considering what happened later.

JMO

I’m ashamed to say it but…I spent a good part of my time in college and my single early 20s years making these sort of calls / texts on nights after the bars and clubs.

If you didnt do the whole bar / nightclub /drinking too much thing during the text message / smartphone / everyone has “unlimited calls and data” age you’re just going to interpret it differently. Simply because you might be unable to empathize.

That’s not a shot or an insult. You’re probably better for it! I’m happy that I’m not living through what dating has evolved to in the last 10 years.

 

[schooling]

Also, anyone that thinks that the differences in DM and BF’s accounts of the night are enough to introduce enough reasonable doubt to dismiss all of the other evidence….

Is going to be sadly disappointed…..

JMO

 

[jjleroche]

Calling somebody in the middle of the night when you are a teenager or a student is normal. Us calling would be an emergency because we think about how the other person might be feeling when we wake them up. (And they are older, and they might have insomnia. But tbh, I started considering others’ feelings re. night calls after I got my first child, and that’s when “being kept awake at night” suddenly got a different meaning.)

Young people usually go to bed later and sleep in, and I can’t even say that waking someone up at night is egotism - just a different perception of the world. And also, “friendship is round-the-clock” concept.

So, no, a night call in their group is not an emergency. And, I also observed how young men behave when parting ways. Not to tarnish the relationship between JD and KG, because if K’s mom believes they’d essentially get together, I accept it. But whenever one of sons would initiate the break up with a girlfriend, it would be for someone else. If a girl would dump him, it would be, “I wanted to be together forever, I am so sad… now, where do I find another one?” It is also an age factor, and the fact that there are many young women around. In short, if the relationship between K and J was normal, not abusive and not controlling (and so far I never heard anything to the contrary), he’d have zero reason to kill her, just nada. He would be either mourning the loss of the relationship but subconsciously, putting out feelers for the new one, or being sad but hopeful for getting back together. No reason to kill her, her friend and two roommates. Plus, JD knew the family, K’s friends, housemates. Would he ever plan it so sloppily?

Actually, JD is the one off my list. And I sympathize with him, and feel that it is a huge tragedy for him, as now K is neither an ex- nor “maybe still”. She is his first love who departed too young, in a horrible situation, and all that he has left from his first love is the dog, Murphy.

Talking of Murphy and Jack, does anyone know how they're going? I'm very glad (and surprised that Murphy survived). MOO

 

[gremlin444]

Talking of Murphy and Jack, does anyone know how they're going? I'm very glad (and surprised that Murphy survived). MOO

If you look for Murphy Goncalves on Instagram you'll find the account that Jack made for him--he posts lots of videos and photos of Murphy.

 

[Cool Cats]

Talking of Murphy and Jack, does anyone know how they're going? I'm very glad (and surprised that Murphy survived). MOO

Idaho murder victim’s boyfriend poses with surviving dog and new niece

Grieving family offers glimpse of Kaylee Goncalves’ longtime boyfriend Jack DuCouer’s visit with his dog Murphy to their home in Coeur d’Alene

www.yahoo.com

April 3, 2023

 

[I'm Nobody]

Murphy's Instagram, maintained by Jack D.
I keep hoping that animal hair found in BK's apt will be Murphy's, and Murphy will be BK's final blow.
JMO.

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[Dhighsmith]

Talking of Murphy and Jack, does anyone know how they're going? I'm very glad (and surprised that Murphy survived). MOO

I’m guessing you and I are very similar- with any case where there’s mention of a surviving pet I’m always eager to know its status, hoping it’s with a loving new Mom/Dad.

 

[jjleroche]

If you look for Murphy Goncalves on Instagram you'll find the account that Jack made for him--he posts lots of videos and photos of Murphy.

Thank you so very much Gremlin444, for this information. What heartwarming and beautiful images of Murphy.

His Dad Jack has been so thoughtful, with this. What a kind precious man, who must surely have been to hell and back (the understatement of the century!!)

I got very teary watching the videos (particularly the camping one with Murphy on Kaylee's knee), and it reminded me how very important it is that justice be served.

(PS - couldn't help laughing when I watched the video of Murphy abusing the "treat" button.)

RIP Kaylee, Maddie, Xana and Ethan.