4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[Nila Aella]

From JL's objection to States motion for protective order:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

And he had to make sure he was careful when getting back in the Elantra-change clothing or use his pre-planned way of keeping DNA out of his car. And if this was his first time, it’s a pretty tall order. Can he be that methodical with the amount of adrenaline he must have had after murdering 4 people? Yet he missed DM? Yes, I absolutely believe he did this. But I have so many things turning around in my head.

I think we're all a little dizzy on this one. This case is one that I'm following because I live locally, if I didn't it would still be far more interesting than most. I would even think somebody who has done this would want to take their time, just a little bit, but this seems to be intentionally fast. I hate to believe that you can eliminate four people that quickly but some say you can. JMOO

 

[maconrich]

And he had to make sure he was careful when getting back in the Elantra-change clothing or use his pre-planned way of keeping DNA out of his car. And if this was his first time, it’s a pretty tall order. Can he be that methodical with the amount of adrenaline he must have had after murdering 4 people? Yet he missed DM? Yes, I absolutely believe he did this. But I have so many things turning around in my head.

Exactly. And I tend to think he either did it or was involved, but I feel like we're expected to think he can fly or is some sort of ninja. I don't believe either to be the case - or even that adrenaline can fully explain the timeline they're wanting us to accept. IMO

Plus up until the PCA, the murder was said to have happened between 3-4am. As far as I've been able to find, it was literally the release of the PCA that changed / updated it to between 4-4:20am. That was one of the biggest initial surprises for me when I first read it. I do believe the "new" timeline was a result of LE finding the videos, etc, but, IMO, it feels like a glaring inconsistency, and it creates questions...

I picked one link, but it's standard for the media articles prior to the PCA

"It's believed the four students were killed between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. on Nov. 13, according to Moscow Mayor Art Bettge."

'I have to have my justice': Dad of slain Idaho student pleads with public for help

"My wife's biggest fear, part of the reason we didn't have a funeral, is because she couldn't be guaranteed that that monster was going to not be there," Steve Goncalves said.

abc7.com

 

[Nila Aella]

Perhaps Murphy responded to the Doordash delivery and K shushed him, also noting that vehicle. Perhaps she DID tell M there's someone here, a reference to the doordash vehicle, unaware that BK was set to park/enter almost simultaneously. Perhaps that's when K put M in her room, to settle him, before returning to M's room. Alternately, if the doordash car bothered Murphy so K put him in her room, it's possible that K could have seen BK coming up to the sliders. And told M someone was there. Whoever saiis it, K or X, said it loud enough for D to hear it, which suggests to me it wasn't a panicked whisper or warning as much as an observation-- house full of roommates, who is going to assume it's a masked, mass murderer? So maybe it was K who said it, slightly earlier than D recalled. She had a lot of details to recall after the trauma and terror she faced at daybreak.

I can see that. Murphy responding first to the doordash vehicle. K putting him in her room. K telling M she's seen someone. From M's room, she could've seen the doordash vehicle, from her room, she might've seen BK, worth mentioning but maybe not seemingly alarming.

For all we know, BK didn't slink in the shadows but walked with purpose to the door, which might give a viewer a sense that he belonged there....

K's last act in this world, unaware of what was about to transpire, may well have been relocating Murphy, thereby saving his life....

Jmo

DM looked out her door after she heard something to the effect of "there's someone here" and did not see anything. Per PCA

IMO she was concerned enough to get up, open her door, look, and see nothing. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Sure, that's possible.

It just makes me uncomfortable that the PCA allows for like 5 minutes (from 4:12 to 4:17) inside the house - and 3 minutes to get to the house from where ever the vehicle was parked, and then out of the house, to the car and on the road in time to be caught on video. I realize it might not take long considering the weapon, even though the murders were on two different floors with potentially at least one victim fighting, and maybe he parked closer to the house than I'm thinking... And they seem to be going off the videos, audio, Xana's phone, dd delivery. But IMHO it's too tight and borders on unbelievable. MOO, IMO

Edited to correct to 5 minutes (not 6 as I'd previously typed)

Can youbtellmme where (what page) you saw this exact timeline? Thanka


In any case It takes about 20 seconds or less to get into the house from the Queen Rd parking area behind the house.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Can youbtellmme where (what page) you saw this exact timeline? Thanka


In any case It takes about 20 seconds or less to get into the house from the Queen Rd parking area behind the house.

I'm not the person you're replying to, but the timestamps they listed aren't the timeline of the murders per se, they're just 'approximate' markers of certain events:

4:12am: "A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m."

4:17am: "At approximately 4:17 a.m., a security camera located at 1112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud."

This doesn't even take into account the fact that BK could have been upstairs murdering two people while Xana was downstairs in her room on TikTok.

The car isn't caught on camera leaving at a 'high rate of speed' until 4:20am.

https://www.bostonherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/idaho-murders-court-document-unsealed.pdf

 

[Justice101]

The timetable seems very doable to me. With a knife like that an attacking people that are half-asleep and/or half drunk in a moment of surprise, he could do that easily in under 8 to 10 minutes. (Try and exercise.. .make a motion to stab repeatedly let's say 20 times, then see how long that took. Or count to 60 seconds ... that is a LONG time.

From the other comment, I sure hope they have more of his DNA or their DNA from his apartment, his car or elsewhere.

I still think that even if he bleach cleaned the car thoroughly, he still left some evidence.

 

[ArianeEmory]

The timetable seems very doable to me. With a knife like that an attacking people that are half-asleep and/or half drunk in a moment of surprise, he could do that easily in under 8 to 10 minutes. (Try and exercise.. .make a motion to stab repeatedly let's say 20 times, then see how long that took. Or count to 60 seconds ... that is a LONG time.

To me, the other question is ... "if you don't think BK could have killed all four of them that fast ... what DO you think happened?"

Because somehow all four of them were stabbed to death in a time period that can be fairly well narrowed down by events such as the DoorDash delivery and the victims going dark on social media, plus ME reports/time of death.

 

[Megnut]

I could be off on the movements of the Elantra prior to 4am, but is it possible that he first parked at a distance, jogged to the home, but was deterred by lights and activity, initially aborted his mission, but then, out of mounting rage/intensity returned, by car, and carried out his plan?

Doesn't change the outcome but could it account for time?

Jmo

 

[jepop]

I could be off on the movements of the Elantra prior to 4am, but is it possible that he first parked at a distance, jogged to the home, but was deterred by lights and activity, initially aborted his mission, but then, out of mounting rage/intensity returned, by car, and carried out his plan?

Doesn't change the outcome but could it account for time?

Jmo

One of my origianl theories right there - I don't think the timing on SV1s movements in the neighbourhood between 3.30 and 4.04am fit but I definately think he was losing patience. Moo

 

[maconrich]

Can youbtellmme where (what page) you saw this exact timeline? Thanka


In any case It takes about 20 seconds or less to get into the house from the Queen Rd parking area behind the house.

The info from my notes comes from: (hopefully I'm getting all of this and sorry for scrambled words that I didn't catch during copy/pasting). I think the PCA is also on WS, but I'm not sure...

pg 4,

"by 2:00 a-m. and asleep or at least in their rooms by
approximately 4:00 a.m. This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order
at the residence at approximately 4:00 am..."

pg 4
D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a-m. by what she stated
sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were
located on the third floor. A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was
Goncalves say something to the effect of "there's someone here." A review of records obtained
from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her
cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12
a.m-
D.M. stat€d she looked out of her bedroom but did not see any thing when she heard the
comment about someone being in the house. D,M. stated she opened her door a second time
when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kemodle's room. D.M. then said she
heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."
At approximately 4:17 a"m., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence
immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like
voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times
starting at 4:17 a-m."
D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a
figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking
towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but
athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a
"frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in he

pg 5
"room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads
investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.

The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic
downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described
below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am"

one link to the PCA

Brian Kohberger Probable Cause Affidavit | PDF | Surveillance | Mobile Phones

WARNING: DOCUMENT CONTAINS GRAPHIC DETAILS

www.scribd.com

 

[jepop]

One of my origianl theories right there - I don't think the timing on SV1s movements in the neighbourhood between 3.30 and 4.04am fit but I definately think he was losing patience. Moo

Meant to say - I originally thought he may have done that between about 3.05am and 3.15am - that is he is leaving Pullman at 2.53 and SV1 is on Indian Hills Drive at 3.26am - so I thought it might just be possible but I remember figuring the timing out in detail and abandoning as impossible - park some distance away somewhere at 3.05 - jog to property , see light on - jog back to car and be on Indian Hills at 3.26am. To me it seemed unlikely. I looked at places he may have parked and jogged from without being seen by cameras. Of coure if he did do this and there is camera footrgae of an earlier park then LE has it. Moo

 

[Megnut]

Arrests don't stop investigations. In fact, sometimes they jumpstart them as fresh rounds of tips come in. Presumably LE has even more information now than they did when he was arrested, plus what they know but didn't include in the PCA.

They could have cctv or telematics that indicate a pause in the Elantra's flight path and have conducted searches away from the media's watchful eye. Perhaps they've recovered a weapon, clothing, a face mask with one dog hair inhaled into the folds.

It IS hard to fathom a crime of this magnitude occurring with lightning speed but it DID happen and someone DID do it -- hard to imagine someone else did it, besides the person whose DNA was left centimeters from two of the bodies.

Jmo

 

[jepop]

Arrests don't stop investigations. In fact, sometimes they jumpstart them as fresh rounds of tips come in. Presumably LE has even more information now than they did when he was arrested, plus what they know but didn't include in the PCA.

They could have cctv or telematics that indicate a pause in the Elantra's flight path and have conducted searches away from the media's watchful eye. Perhaps they've recovered a weapon, clothing, a face mask with one dog hair inhaled into the folds.

It IS hard to fathom a crime of this magnitude occurring with lightning speed but it DID happen and someone DID do it -- hard to imagine someone else did it, besides the person whose DNA was left centimeters from two of the bodies.

Jmo

Imo it's doable because it was done. The timeline is developed from the evidence not the other way around.Moo

 

[maconrich]

@Boxer Sorry, I didn't add the timing of the vehicle found on page 7. I simply laid out the information in the PCA in a timeline according to what's stated - and an appx for how long it took killer to go from car to inside house by reversing how long till they saw Susp V 1 again (leaving) =s 3 minutes.

"Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximately 4:04 a.m. It
can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen
Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of
the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the
road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can
be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.
Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area of the King Road Residence at
approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed."

Edited to add PCA from WS:

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf -

pdfhost.io

 

[Justice101]

The info from my notes comes from: (hopefully I'm getting all of this and sorry for scrambled words that I didn't catch during copy/pasting). I think the PCA is also on WS, but I'm not sure...

pg 4,

"by 2:00 a-m. and asleep or at least in their rooms by
approximately 4:00 a.m. This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order
at the residence at approximately 4:00 am..."

pg 4
D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a-m. by what she stated
sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were
located on the third floor. A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was
Goncalves say something to the effect of "there's someone here." A review of records obtained
from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her
cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12
a.m-
D.M. stat€d she looked out of her bedroom but did not see any thing when she heard the
comment about someone being in the house. D,M. stated she opened her door a second time
when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kemodle's room. D.M. then said she
heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."
At approximately 4:17 a"m., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence
immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like
voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times
starting at 4:17 a-m."
D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a
figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking
towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but
athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a
"frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in he

pg 5
"room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads
investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.

The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic
downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described
below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am"

one link to the PCA

Brian Kohberger Probable Cause Affidavit | PDF | Surveillance | Mobile Phones

WARNING: DOCUMENT CONTAINS GRAPHIC DETAILS

www.scribd.com

Whenever I re-read that crying was heard it always brings home to me that these poor people did not die immediately... but died relatively slowly... and sadly, knew they were dying..and were crying. God, that makes me want to throw up. To know you are mortally wounded and are dying and hopelessly fading away. If BK is guilty, he needs to pay a huge price.

 

[maconrich]

Whenever I re-read that crying was heard it always brings home to me that these poor people did not die immediately... but died relatively slowly... and sadly, knew they were dying..and were crying. God, that makes me want to throw up. To know you are mortally wounded and are dying and hopelessly fading away. If BK is guilty, he needs to pay a huge price.

I agree. The initial reports that they were all sleeping... I wish they were true...

 

[al66pine]

Def. Atty: No Connection between BK & Victims

Look at the June 22, 2023 filing and there are many, many articles online about this and it has already been linked here in Websleuths. Google "Bryan Kohberger no connection to victims" to read the articles. The exact quote is this: “There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger's apartment, office, home, or vehicle.” Basically the defense is arguing that the state targeted their client without having sufficient evidence to do so. It is extremely concerning. Defense attorneys are not going to lie in a document that is filed with the court because they could be in serious trouble for doing so, they could be fined or even disbarred and none of that has occurred, so we have to take this very seriously.

@ Balthazar Thanks for your repsonse. I understand potentially severe consequences for an atty lying in a court-filed doc.

My basic question: What actions fall within the meaning of connection? Or what "counts" as a connection?

If connecting-actions such as ex's (church attendance, podcast side-chats) in my previous post* "count," she's made a verrry broad stmt. Essentially a negative. Can def. atty prove it? How?
Seems the state could potentially disprove w a extremely t-h-i-n ex., like church or podcast. But is a connecting-action like that within the def. of connection? Depends on how "connection" is DEFINED in this context.

My other question:
Is this strictly a PRE-TRIAL issue? If not, does jury get to see/hear the state pop the bubble (assuming the state can come up w an example? Doubting it, but IDK.

___________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

 

[maskedwoman]

I don’t think the time that the killer (obviously BK, IMO) arrived and left will be left up to debate. I think people are missing the real problem with the timeline.

That’s the big gap on what exactly happened inside of the house and in what order. And how 1 person walked into a house filled with 6 people and walked away with 4 lives.

Leaving things up to the jury’s imagination is never a good idea.

No im not delving into conspiracy theory land. I think he 1000% on his own. I think they still 99.99999% get a conviction even with what I’ve heard so far. And looking at Payne’s contradiction to DMs attribution of the voice to Kaylee….seeems like they have the goods? Via what kind of evidence?

In general, I think many of the things we are questioning along the way, are only gaps because of the gag order. The fact that the State is pursuing the death penalty suggests to me that there is quite a bit of evidence to be revealed. Regardless of how guilty I personally may think BK is, I would not be confident of a jury returning both a guilty verdict and death penalty finding based only on the evidence confirmed so far. MOOooo

 

[wary]

Def. Atty: No Connection between BK & Victims

@ Balthazar Thanks for your repsonse. I understand potentially severe consequences for an atty lying in a court-filed doc.

My basic question: What actions fall within the meaning of connection? Or what "counts" as a connection?

If connecting-actions such as ex's (church attendance, podcast side-chats) in my previous post* "count," she's made a verrry broad stmt. Essentially a negative. Can def. atty prove it? How?
Seems the state could potentially disprove w a extremely t-h-i-n ex., like church or podcast. But is a connecting-action like that within the def. of connection? Depends on how "connection" is DEFINED in this context.

My other question:
Is this strictly a PRE-TRIAL issue? If not, does jury get to see/hear the state pop the bubble (assuming the state can come up w an example? Doubting it, but IDK.

___________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

Let’s put it this way: if a lawyer can say that “it all depends on the meaning of the word ‘is’” then another lawyer will have almost infinite scope to play around with the meaning of ‘connection.’ We’d have to be very trusting to think that ‘no connection’ meant ‘no connection at all.’

MOO