4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[10ofRods]

Elliot Rodger targeted a house and not individuals (his manifesto is available online).

He had three interlocking homicidal plans, of which he attempt two of them, never making it to the sorority house he where he wanted to kill "beautiful blondes." He writes of how he sussed out the sorority with the most beautiful blondes (of the type he believed would have nothing to do with him).

Just speculating based on a well-known past murderer who had bizarre mass murder plans.

IMO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I have a question....I have had someone in my family try to explain to me but I still don't understand. When I am often in a business a drop down on my phone will ask me which
Wifi do I want to connect to? I always ignore it. I did have someone tell me never to lookup my private information ( I don't want to say what info) in a situation like this because others can see my information. Upthread I posted the synchronization of DD around the time of this particular crime. It's not that I believe in some conspiracy
theory of DD, I just cannot figure out how you could be so CERTAIN that you would not be confronted with people going in and out. No one wants to be caught in a house, (where you don't belong) in the middle of the night with a knife in their hand. With that many cars in the driveway, and the traffic in and out, how do you know someone
doesn't own a weapon and will take care of you entering in the middle of the night?

Good points, @di anna.

IMO, the killer did what they could:

(1) Electronically to surveil the house and/or any or all of the 4 victims and 2 housemates who were spared in the hours before and around the time of entering the house to kill to scope out the scene: e.g., possibly they:
(a) watched the Grub Truck livestream showing when Kaylee & Maddie were still out versus heading home,
(b) hacked into neighborhood ring cameras/Alexa apps or secretly installed ring or doorbell or game/deer/wildlife cams behind or next to or in front of the house to watch who came and went and who was up or in bed,
(c) hacked DD software or ordering or general knowledge or acted as an imposter at DD or at the Jack In The Box or had access to hacked info at a minimum to know about the order DD delivered to Xana just before the murder which according to the PCA was right before she was active on SM, which could also have been hacked and/or the killer could have even been messaging or cyberstalking Xana on SM and knew around 4 am she was on her way to sleep, maybe Ethan was already asleep, or at least she was likely super tired at 4 am,
(d) dropped a tracking device in their vehicles or bags/backpacks or used an app to track the victims' whereabouts, and knew when they were all in the house, including DM and BF,
(e) watched them on hacked cameras or cyberstalked them on SM account reading posts from parties, bars, football games, etc. on their activities
(f) had passwords allowing access to their home wifi, and could spy on them that way through Alexa/fitbits/DD orders/monitors, etc. that were connected to the wifi if hackable and not using VPN connections for

(2) Then they used the tried and true old fashioned techniques to confirm what they may know electronically before entering the house: e.g., possibly they:
(a) looked into the windows with binoculars from far enough away and in a remote portion of the neighborhood that they knew didn't have any video cameras and even saw them turning out lights and going to their rooms and shutting the doors and turning off lights,
(b) watched them come home or knew the timing of when they would be home from electronic means -- for instance, when Kaylee and Maddie left the Grub Truck and got in a rideshare they would be assumed to be home within so many minutes, or Ethan/Xana had posted on SM what a great party, see you tomorrow for brunch or whatever
(c) knew because of how late it was and the general revelry in the neighborhood had died down that it was not a night when they were partying at home that when they came home they were alone at home and on the way to bed, possibly with the exception of Kaylee trying to call her ex bf and then Maddie, whose calls went unanswered because he was asleep at 4 am, but then they probably gace up and went to bed.

IMO, it wasn't that hard to use a variety of surveillance techniques (some possibilities given above that of course may not apply to all 6 people in the house or 4 victims) but could be cobbled together in such as way as to be assured that the coast was clear and they had their window before it got light out at sunrise approximately 2 1/2 hours later to go in in stealth mode in the darkest hour before the dawn and commit their murders. And no one was waiting there to shoot an intruder with their gun, especially if the slider or front door were unlocked and/or they had the passcode to the door locks.

All MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Elliot Rodger targeted a house and not individuals (his manifesto is available online).

He had three interlocking homicidal plans, of which he attempt two of them, never making it to the sorority house he where he wanted to kill "beautiful blondes." He writes of how he sussed out the sorority with the most beautiful blondes (of the type he believed would have nothing to do with him).

Just speculating based on a well-known past murderer who had bizarre mass murder plans.

IMO.

It's going to sound like a funny comment, but this is a form of domestic terrorism. To emotionally "blow-up" this simple college town, oblivious to the outside world realities at times. Targeting a house is odd/new to me. JMOO

 

[kittythehare]

I have a question....I have had someone in my family try to explain to me but I still don't understand. When I am often in a business a drop down on my phone will ask me which
Wifi do I want to connect to? I always ignore it. I did have someone tell me never to lookup my private information ( I don't want to say what info) in a situation like this because others can see my information. Upthread I posted the synchronization of DD around the time of this particular crime. It's not that I believe in some conspiracy
theory of DD, I just cannot figure out how you could be so CERTAIN that you would not be confronted with people going in and out. No one wants to be caught in a house, (where you don't belong) in the middle of the night with a knife in their hand. With that many cars in the driveway, and the traffic in and out, how do you know someone
doesn't own a weapon and will take care of you entering in the middle of the night?

Lights were mostly off.
Unlocked wifi enables anybody in vicinity to connect to nearest.
Possibly knew who was home and which rooms they slept in.
Possibly knew of their earlier movements and was able to time his entrance accordingly.

 

[Balthazar]

Those definitely look like creeper shoes! All black, easy on and off. I checked walmart's website and they do still sell a similar shoe in stores. It's only $16.98.

Robot or human?

Is there a picture of the actual footprint? I can't remember whether we are literally limited to diamond sold or we're just assuming that based on the van-type description.

No photo of the footprint as of yet. No actual or even approximate shoe size.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Good points, @di anna.

IMO, the killer did what they could:

(1) Electronically to surveil the house and/or any or all of the 4 victims and 2 housemates who were spared in the hours before and around the time of entering the house to kill to scope out the scene: e.g., possibly they:
(a) watched the Grub Truck livestream showing when Kaylee & Maddie were still out versus heading home,
(b) hacked into neighborhood ring cameras/Alexa apps or secretly installed ring or doorbell or game/deer/wildlife cams behind or next to or in front of the house to watch who came and went and who was up or in bed,
(c) hacked DD software or ordering or general knowledge or acted as an imposter at DD or at the Jack In The Box or had access to hacked info at a minimum to know about the order DD delivered to Xana just before the murder which according to the PCA was right before she was active on SM, which could also have been hacked and/or the killer could have even been messaging or cyberstalking Xana on SM and knew around 4 am she was on her way to sleep, maybe Ethan was already asleep, or at least she was likely super tired at 4 am,
(d) dropped a tracking device in their vehicles or bags/backpacks or used an app to track the victims' whereabouts, and knew when they were all in the house, including DM and BF,
(e) watched them on hacked cameras or cyberstalked them on SM account reading posts from parties, bars, football games, etc. on their activities
(f) had passwords allowing access to their home wifi, and could spy on them that way through Alexa/fitbits/DD orders/monitors, etc. that were connected to the wifi if hackable and not using VPN connections for

(2) Then they used the tried and true old fashioned techniques to confirm what they may know electronically before entering the house: e.g., possibly they:
(a) looked into the windows with binoculars from far enough away and in a remote portion of the neighborhood that they knew didn't have any video cameras and even saw them turning out lights and going to their rooms and shutting the doors and turning off lights,
(b) watched them come home or knew the timing of when they would be home from electronic means -- for instance, when Kaylee and Maddie left the Grub Truck and got in a rideshare they would be assumed to be home within so many minutes, or Ethan/Xana had posted on SM what a great party, see you tomorrow for brunch or whatever
(c) knew because of how late it was and the general revelry in the neighborhood had died down that it was not a night when they were partying at home that when they came home they were alone at home and on the way to bed, possibly with the exception of Kaylee trying to call her ex bf and then Maddie, whose calls went unanswered because he was asleep at 4 am, but then they probably gace up and went to bed.

IMO, it wasn't that hard to use a variety of surveillance techniques (some possibilities given above that of course may not apply to all 6 people in the house or 4 victims) but could be cobbled together in such as way as to be assured that the coast was clear and they had their window before it got light out at sunrise approximately 2 1/2 hours later to go in in stealth mode in the darkest hour before the dawn and commit their murders. And no one was waiting there to shoot an intruder with their gun, especially if the slider or front door were unlocked and/or they had the passcode to the door locks.

All MOO

Beginning of last paragraph RBBM

So very many ways the murderer could have “known” the house and/or one or more of the victims without them even knowing of his existence, MOO. Deep sigh.

ETA what I bolded

 

[vinayd]

@Charlot123 sorry forgot to quote your post.

Just one phone. My sis can access from a computer and basically see a remote view of their screen. Only incoming texts no outgoing. They have iPhones. Will update when I see it in action and get the name!

 

[Boxer]

Good points, @di anna.

IMO, the killer did what they could:

(1) Electronically to surveil the house and/or any or all of the 4 victims and 2 housemates who were spared in the hours before and around the time of entering the house to kill to scope out the scene: e.g., possibly they:
(a) watched the Grub Truck livestream showing when Kaylee & Maddie were still out versus heading home,
(b) hacked into neighborhood ring cameras/Alexa apps or secretly installed ring or doorbell or game/deer/wildlife cams behind or next to or in front of the house to watch who came and went and who was up or in bed,
(c) hacked DD software or ordering or general knowledge or acted as an imposter at DD or at the Jack In The Box or had access to hacked info at a minimum to know about the order DD delivered to Xana just before the murder which according to the PCA was right before she was active on SM, which could also have been hacked and/or the killer could have even been messaging or cyberstalking Xana on SM and knew around 4 am she was on her way to sleep, maybe Ethan was already asleep, or at least she was likely super tired at 4 am,
(d) dropped a tracking device in their vehicles or bags/backpacks or used an app to track the victims' whereabouts, and knew when they were all in the house, including DM and BF,
(e) watched them on hacked cameras or cyberstalked them on SM account reading posts from parties, bars, football games, etc. on their activities
(f) had passwords allowing access to their home wifi, and could spy on them that way through Alexa/fitbits/DD orders/monitors, etc. that were connected to the wifi if hackable and not using VPN connections for

(2) Then they used the tried and true old fashioned techniques to confirm what they may know electronically before entering the house: e.g., possibly they:
(a) looked into the windows with binoculars from far enough away and in a remote portion of the neighborhood that they knew didn't have any video cameras and even saw them turning out lights and going to their rooms and shutting the doors and turning off lights,
(b) watched them come home or knew the timing of when they would be home from electronic means -- for instance, when Kaylee and Maddie left the Grub Truck and got in a rideshare they would be assumed to be home within so many minutes, or Ethan/Xana had posted on SM what a great party, see you tomorrow for brunch or whatever
(c) knew because of how late it was and the general revelry in the neighborhood had died down that it was not a night when they were partying at home that when they came home they were alone at home and on the way to bed, possibly with the exception of Kaylee trying to call her ex bf and then Maddie, whose calls went unanswered because he was asleep at 4 am, but then they probably gace up and went to bed.

IMO, it wasn't that hard to use a variety of surveillance techniques (some possibilities given above that of course may not apply to all 6 people in the house or 4 victims) but could be cobbled together in such as way as to be assured that the coast was clear and they had their window before it got light out at sunrise approximately 2 1/2 hours later to go in in stealth mode in the darkest hour before the dawn and commit their murders. And no one was waiting there to shoot an intruder with their gun, especially if the slider or front door were unlocked and/or they had the passcode to the door locks.

All MOO

Almost all of tge

Good points, @di anna.

IMO, the killer did what they could:

(1) Electronically to surveil the house and/or any or all of the 4 victims and 2 housemates who were spared in the hours before and around the time of entering the house to kill to scope out the scene: e.g., possibly they:
(a) watched the Grub Truck livestream showing when Kaylee & Maddie were still out versus heading home,
(b) hacked into neighborhood ring cameras/Alexa apps or secretly installed ring or doorbell or game/deer/wildlife cams behind or next to or in front of the house to watch who came and went and who was up or in bed,
(c) hacked DD software or ordering or general knowledge or acted as an imposter at DD or at the Jack In The Box or had access to hacked info at a minimum to know about the order DD delivered to Xana just before the murder which according to the PCA was right before she was active on SM, which could also have been hacked and/or the killer could have even been messaging or cyberstalking Xana on SM and knew around 4 am she was on her way to sleep, maybe Ethan was already asleep, or at least she was likely super tired at 4 am,
(d) dropped a tracking device in their vehicles or bags/backpacks or used an app to track the victims' whereabouts, and knew when they were all in the house, including DM and BF,
(e) watched them on hacked cameras or cyberstalked them on SM account reading posts from parties, bars, football games, etc. on their activities
(f) had passwords allowing access to their home wifi, and could spy on them that way through Alexa/fitbits/DD orders/monitors, etc. that were connected to the wifi if hackable and not using VPN connections for

(2) Then they used the tried and true old fashioned techniques to confirm what they may know electronically before entering the house: e.g., possibly they:
(a) looked into the windows with binoculars from far enough away and in a remote portion of the neighborhood that they knew didn't have any video cameras and even saw them turning out lights and going to their rooms and shutting the doors and turning off lights,
(b) watched them come home or knew the timing of when they would be home from electronic means -- for instance, when Kaylee and Maddie left the Grub Truck and got in a rideshare they would be assumed to be home within so many minutes, or Ethan/Xana had posted on SM what a great party, see you tomorrow for brunch or whatever
(c) knew because of how late it was and the general revelry in the neighborhood had died down that it was not a night when they were partying at home that when they came home they were alone at home and on the way to bed, possibly with the exception of Kaylee trying to call her ex bf and then Maddie, whose calls went unanswered because he was asleep at 4 am, but then they probably gace up and went to bed.

IMO, it wasn't that hard to use a variety of surveillance techniques (some possibilities given above that of course may not apply to all 6 people in the house or 4 victims) but could be cobbled together in such as way as to be assured that the coast was clear and they had their window before it got light out at sunrise approximately 2 1/2 hours later to go in in stealth mode in the darkest hour before the dawn and commit their murders. And no one was waiting there to shoot an intruder with their gun, especially if the slider or front door were unlocked and/or they had the passcode to the door locks.

All MOO

Personally MOO he found a peeping Tom's ideal house and made himself crazy by going there repeatedly -
I believe there will be very little electronic connection in the end.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Almost all of tge

Personally MOO he found a peeping Tom's ideal house and made himself crazy by going there repeatedly -
I believe there will be very little electronic connection in the end.

I’m with you here.

The fact that he turned off (or set to airplane) the phone during the murder window tells me he has some awareness of the technological pitfalls of being a criminal. I think he wanted to do it all as low-tech as possible.

I don’t think any fancy tech surveillance was necessary, between social media and the fact that this house was apparently a beloved college rental home with a long waiting list (per ABC).

Obviously he had to take the risk that the disappearance of his phone from the networks would be suspicious in and of itself, and maybe if he had just a few more IQ points he would have left the phone at home, but thankfully he didn’t.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Does anyone here care to speculate whether they think the killer went to the trouble of installing their own wildlife/deer/night cam?

Behind their house up in the trees and/or across the street that abutted the Greek Row in front of their house?

That the killer used to view their house and them and their activities remotely on their computer and/or phone or on Alexa or whatever remote viewing device ahead of time?

That they later removed, that morning, whenever (right away after the murders or later that morning before LE showed up around noon)?

So they wouldn't need to come in person until / once the timing was set in stone for early morning Sunday November 13th entry and killings?

Or do you think I'm giving them too much credit and/or they didn't need something like that personally dedicated remote viewing device ahead of time?

TIA. MOO as usual

 

[Balthazar]

I'd put BK in a pair of Converse (diamond pattern on the bottom) before a pair of Vans any day of the week. Hope we get to find out the truth. If am wrong, am wrong, the truth is what counts here. moo

In addition, possibly the New Balance pic is an option as well. moo

I agree, I'm not convinced that Vans would be remotely comfortable for a New Balance wearer due to the flat sole and low vamp. My husband and I wear New Balance and cannot get our feet into most loafers as the vamp is too low.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Does anyone here care to speculate whether they think the killer went to the trouble of installing their own wildlife/deer/night cam?

I know a fair amount about consumer electronics, but nothing about hunting electronics. But in order for him to access the camera “live”, the camera would have to have either wifi (connected to … some very very close wifi) or a cellular connection ($) onboard.

Now that I type it out, I’m sure such a device exists, but I guess I assumed that deer cams etc just had local storage that people check the next time they’re there.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Oh, I also meant to type this out earlier today but I got sidetracked with the LISK arrest.

I dislike YouTube. I’d rather read text than listen to someone verbally explain something to me. I loathe the big money industry that disinformation has become, along with the monetization of schlocky murder channels and tragedies like the Titan disaster.

All this said, I finally clicked on that Gray Hughes video once it had been vetted, and while you’re not seeing much on the camera and I personally never would have been able to make anything of it, once he lines it up with the PCA and the footage of what it’s like to drive around behind that one building … yeah, the multiple loops + lurking behind the building seem way too plausible, and terrifying.

 

[schooling]

I know a fair amount about consumer electronics, but nothing about hunting electronics. But in order for him to access the camera “live”, the camera would have to have either wifi (connected to … some very very close wifi) or a cellular connection ($) onboard.

Now that I type it out, I’m sure such a device exists, but I guess I assumed that deer cams etc just had local storage that people check the next time they’re there.

Setting up a camera that you can then access is trivial.

Finding a location where it’s not going to be discovered and tied back to you is the more difficult part.

 

[jjleroche]

Good points, @di anna.

IMO, the killer did what they could:

(1) Electronically to surveil the house and/or any or all of the 4 victims and 2 housemates who were spared in the hours before and around the time of entering the house to kill to scope out the scene: e.g., possibly they:
(a) watched the Grub Truck livestream showing when Kaylee & Maddie were still out versus heading home,
(b) hacked into neighborhood ring cameras/Alexa apps or secretly installed ring or doorbell or game/deer/wildlife cams behind or next to or in front of the house to watch who came and went and who was up or in bed,
(c) hacked DD software or ordering or general knowledge or acted as an imposter at DD or at the Jack In The Box or had access to hacked info at a minimum to know about the order DD delivered to Xana just before the murder which according to the PCA was right before she was active on SM, which could also have been hacked and/or the killer could have even been messaging or cyberstalking Xana on SM and knew around 4 am she was on her way to sleep, maybe Ethan was already asleep, or at least she was likely super tired at 4 am,
(d) dropped a tracking device in their vehicles or bags/backpacks or used an app to track the victims' whereabouts, and knew when they were all in the house, including DM and BF,
(e) watched them on hacked cameras or cyberstalked them on SM account reading posts from parties, bars, football games, etc. on their activities
(f) had passwords allowing access to their home wifi, and could spy on them that way through Alexa/fitbits/DD orders/monitors, etc. that were connected to the wifi if hackable and not using VPN connections for

(2) Then they used the tried and true old fashioned techniques to confirm what they may know electronically before entering the house: e.g., possibly they:
(a) looked into the windows with binoculars from far enough away and in a remote portion of the neighborhood that they knew didn't have any video cameras and even saw them turning out lights and going to their rooms and shutting the doors and turning off lights,
(b) watched them come home or knew the timing of when they would be home from electronic means -- for instance, when Kaylee and Maddie left the Grub Truck and got in a rideshare they would be assumed to be home within so many minutes, or Ethan/Xana had posted on SM what a great party, see you tomorrow for brunch or whatever
(c) knew because of how late it was and the general revelry in the neighborhood had died down that it was not a night when they were partying at home that when they came home they were alone at home and on the way to bed, possibly with the exception of Kaylee trying to call her ex bf and then Maddie, whose calls went unanswered because he was asleep at 4 am, but then they probably gace up and went to bed.

IMO, it wasn't that hard to use a variety of surveillance techniques (some possibilities given above that of course may not apply to all 6 people in the house or 4 victims) but could be cobbled together in such as way as to be assured that the coast was clear and they had their window before it got light out at sunrise approximately 2 1/2 hours later to go in in stealth mode in the darkest hour before the dawn and commit their murders. And no one was waiting there to shoot an intruder with their gun, especially if the slider or front door were unlocked and/or they had the passcode to the door locks.

All MOO

Great post!
Whenever I think of the Grub Truck livestream, I feel a sense of panic, seeing these beautiful souls, knowing their lives would be snuffed out in a very short time.
Pardon my ignorance, but are livestreams such as this common? (I must have lead a sheltered life, although I do live in a different country where sometimes, things are done a little differently.

 

[schooling]

Oh, I also meant to type this out earlier today but I got sidetracked with the LISK arrest.

I dislike YouTube. I’d rather read text than listen to someone verbally explain something to me. I loathe the big money industry that disinformation has become, along with the monetization of schlocky murder channels and tragedies like the Titan disaster.

All this said, I finally clicked on that Gray Hughes video once it had been vetted, and while you’re not seeing much on the camera and I personally never would have been able to make anything of it, once he lines it up with the PCA and the footage of what it’s like to drive around behind that one building … yeah, the multiple loops + lurking behind the building seem way too plausible, and terrifying.

Another thing the Gray Hughes video does is put the DoorDash conspiracies to bed IMO.

BKs last loop was to give the DoorDash guy time to leave.

 

[schooling]

Great post!
Whenever I think of the Grub Truck livestream, I feel a sense of panic, seeing these beautiful souls, knowing their lives would be snuffed out in a very short time.
Pardon my ignorance, but are livestreams such as this common? (I must have lead a sheltered life, although I do live in a different country where sometimes, things are done a little differently.

The popular after hours pizza place at the large 30k+ University I attended has a live webcam that’s been around in one form or another since 2001.

Back in my day the frame rate was a lot worse of course. Only refreshing a single image once every few seconds.

It’s all about inducing FOMO and encouraging others to visit in that moment.

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

I know a fair amount about consumer electronics, but nothing about hunting electronics. But in order for him to access the camera “live”, the camera would have to have either wifi (connected to … some very very close wifi) or a cellular connection ($) onboard.

Now that I type it out, I’m sure such a device exists, but I guess I assumed that deer cams etc just had local storage that people check the next time they’re there.

I believe the video stream can be uploaded and available instantaneously on a cell or from a computer. I have video cameras in the front and back of my home and I can see the live feed from wherever I may be.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Setting up a camera that you can then access is trivial.

Right, but if we’re talking about live viewing then it has to have connectivity. Like I said, I’m sure there’s something you can buy with a built in cellular connection, but then you still have to pay for (maybe traceably) the cellular connection.

I’m on a phone right now and I should have quoted more of your text, but I feel like most non-criminals are pretty oblivious to doorbell cams etc at this point.

(I have a feeling we’re mostly agreeing, but it’s been a long day and I spent a lot of it trying to track down a sketchy packet loss problem. Be gentle.)

 

[schooling]

Right, but if we’re talking about live viewing then it has to have connectivity. Like I said, I’m sure there’s something you can buy with a built in cellular connection, but then you still have to pay for (maybe traceably) the cellular connection.

I’m on a phone right now and I should have quoted more of your text, but I feel like most non-criminals are pretty oblivious to doorbell cams etc at this point.

(I have a feeling we’re mostly agreeing, but it’s been a long day and I spent a lot of it trying to track down a sketchy packet loss problem. Be gentle.)

Ya I don’t think I’m saying anything different from what you are. I could buy a 3g cellular capable camera and have it running off a prepaid data plan in 2 minutes.

Making sure the camera and prepaid card can’t be tied to me, and my connections can’t be tied back to the devices I use to live view it and that the camera won’t be discoverable is the much much much harder part with today’s law enforcement methods.

I’m not sure why he would need a camera to begin with. As law enforcement and the press showed us most all activity inside of the house was in full view of the windows.

With real estate pictures, virtual tours, and publicly available information he knew exactly what he was looking at on the nights he stalked the house. He likely knew which were bedroom windows and which weren’t. And watched the lights go on and off. It probably wouldn’t have taken him long to take a glance inside of a window and start to figure out who stayed where.

I think BKs technical abilities are being vastly over estimated. MOO of course