4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

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  • #201
The defense has all of the tapes, don't they? If there are any other White Elantras in the video I'm sure they'll point this out.

jmo

And call that other White Elantra owner to the stand!

(if the Judge lets them - this is why the Judge Job is so hard.

Although, I doubt there's any other white Elantra owner wandering into this case. Pretty sure the State can pin down who it is at this point. Let's not forget...GPS.

If BK put his phone on airplane mode, then GPS still works. But even if he turned it off, when it comes back on, there will be GPS. And...well, maybe the phone doesn't even need to be on.

 
  • #202
The plate replacement could be intentional , related to the crime , or intentional not related to the crime . His Pennsylvania plate/registration was expiring 11/30/2022. Food for thought.

Agree. It could have been part of the reason he felt that it must be done that night. The re-registration also changes the no front plate identification to a vehicle with 2 plates.

jmo
 
  • #203
[snipped by me]

This is speculation only. There were so many signs imo that were telling him to turn around and go home. That tonight was not the night, and he didn't - or he couldn't. I can't help but think he had this specific date planned to do it and had some compulsion that it had to be done on that date regardless of the many obstacles he encountered.

jmo

This is the question that keeps me awake at night. Well, one of them.

WHAT in the world made that particular night "the night"?

Compulsion, yes. Such compulsions are noted in the psychiatric literature, for sure. But there's some kind of triggering/correlating event. Some bizarre ideation, usually. "I have to do this on the full moon." However, in this case, I keep thinking that, even if he had more than one target in that quiet neighborhood, and Big Feelings about his situation at WSU/work...there's more.

I agree with you that he believed it had to be done that night - but at what moment he developed that thought, is anyone's guess. I think WSers have done an outstanding job of theorizing, though.

Did he think Kaylee had gone - and that Maddie would be alone? Did he know that Kaylee had come back? Or was it more related to his work situation. He might have decided his "life was over" due to his failure to remain in the program at WSU (which is huge, btw, for a grad student - he clearly tried to organize himself and his life for a doctorate/success in criminology). When it was clear he was going to be booted, did he lose it?

IOW, a kind of "I tried to fix the crime situation; I have been rejected by criminologists; I'll teach 'em!!"

Or was it more mysterious (urges that came cyclically into his mind, and the work situation simply made it worse?) Was it the anniversary of something? Did numbers have a mystical meaning to him? All of the above?

IMO.
 
  • #204
What I find to be far too much of a coincidence is that it was to be KG's last night ever at the house and in town. She would have got up the next day, taken the dog, and left for her future life - to commence her new job. Following which in only a short matter of time the other members of the house would have duly graduated and vacated and gone their separate ways.

I find it almost beyond belief that this situation of KG's one and only last night isn't somehow related. And yet on the other hand it seems BK may have targeted the house believing that KG and the dog weren't there and he was going upstairs to an upper level that only M was occupying. Strange.
 
  • #205
So was Conclaves saying that the King House network would have shown up on BK's 'other network' wifi list because he was so close to the house they overlapped?
[snipped by me]

This is just a guess because the underlying facts of "how" they know this to be true have not been revealed. But I would think it ties back to his phone settings. If he had his phone discoverable to ask to connect to wifi, maybe that communication is stored on the wifi network?

jmo
 
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  • #206
That’s how I took it, but I’m not sure there’s anything of substance to back up the claim (other than obviously he’s close enough to join their WiFi when he’s inside the house committing a quadruple homicide). In my experience/opinion, routers won’t keep logs of any device that could potentially connect to it. It would be far too unwieldy. Only record would be if he actually connected to it.

MOO

I think the significance of this is that it occurred before the date of the crimes, not "on" the day of the crimes. In other words they determined it attempted to connect on one of the 12 prior occasions on which his phone was tracked to the area of the home. It's less clear in the linked write-up that this is what is being conveyed, but I recall from his interview very early on that this is what he meant.

jmo

"The affidavit also said Kohberger’s phone pinged near the girls’ home on King Road in Moscow at least 12 times in the months leading up to the murders. 'He was close enough that he was touching their wi-fi,' Goncalves said."

 
  • #207
[snipped by me]

This is just a guess because the underlying facts of "how" they know this to be true have not been revealed. But I would think it ties back to his phone settings. If he had his phone discoverable to ask to connect to wifi, maybe that communication s stored on the wifi network?

jmo

Early on, there was speculation here on this forum that perhaps the household had a wifi that perhaps anyone and everyone who visited the house could log on (bearing in mind number of visitors and parties) and as such maybe the pass code had been posted up on a notice board or such for anyone to see.

That led to some speculation that if BK had been able to access the wifi he could have been using it to remotely spy on the household -or- perhaps he had tech skills sufficient to hack into devices such as TV camera or other devices.

IIRC that then led to people concluding that were that to be the case, BK's device(s) data could have been noted by the wifi or household devices, and that anyway devices can 'see' each other and that is logged even if they're not attempting to connect... something I am way too techno baffled to comprehend but that's a bit of ancient history in the development of this theory for you :)
 
  • #208
And call that other White Elantra owner to the stand!

(if the Judge lets them - this is why the Judge Job is so hard.

Although, I doubt there's any other white Elantra owner wandering into this case. Pretty sure the State can pin down who it is at this point. Let's not forget...GPS.

If BK put his phone on airplane mode, then GPS still works. But even if he turned it off, when it comes back on, there will be GPS. And...well, maybe the phone doesn't even need to be on.

And does that other Elantra have a front license plate?

It doesn't really matter if there are other similar Elantras cruising around, as long as we can see that the ONE Elantra that sped away from the scene was the same one that had BK's cell inside of it.
 
  • #209
This is the question that keeps me awake at night. Well, one of them.

WHAT in the world made that particular night "the night"?

Compulsion, yes. Such compulsions are noted in the psychiatric literature, for sure. But there's some kind of triggering/correlating event. Some bizarre ideation, usually. "I have to do this on the full moon." However, in this case, I keep thinking that, even if he had more than one target in that quiet neighborhood, and Big Feelings about his situation at WSU/work...there's more.

I agree with you that he believed it had to be done that night - but at what moment he developed that thought, is anyone's guess. I think WSers have done an outstanding job of theorizing, though.

Did he think Kaylee had gone - and that Maddie would be alone? Did he know that Kaylee had come back? Or was it more related to his work situation. He might have decided his "life was over" due to his failure to remain in the program at WSU (which is huge, btw, for a grad student - he clearly tried to organize himself and his life for a doctorate/success in criminology). When it was clear he was going to be booted, did he lose it?

IOW, a kind of "I tried to fix the crime situation; I have been rejected by criminologists; I'll teach 'em!!"

Or was it more mysterious (urges that came cyclically into his mind, and the work situation simply made it worse?) Was it the anniversary of something? Did numbers have a mystical meaning to him? All of the above?

IMO.

I agree. It's been nagging me too ever since the pca was released with details. There were just so many obstacles that were clear signs. I think (moo) he fully intended to commit these crimes between 3-4. I think him leaving his apt at 2:45ish for a 10 minute drive initially had LE thinking this too. I don't think he planned to see all of the lights on for so long. I don't think he planned on a door dash delivery. I don't think he planned to drive around in circles in front of their house (complete with 3-pt turns) and around Moscow. Yet he still didn't call it day and go back home. Something made him think or believe it had to be that night. Not sure if it was Kaylee's return, not sure if it's numerology 1122 (November 2022), not sure if it's the "13th" day of the month. Not sure if it was the plates (get this done before final exam week at both schools?)

It could be any number of things, or it could be nothing at all. But, I can't help but think it was something. That date was important.

jmo
 
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  • #210
I know nothing of which I speak so forgive me.... but is it possible that BK's phone shook hands with the 1122 household wifi (because his was set to search) and the household router recorded a handshake without logging an actual phone number? In which case LE would have known about potentially two such connections -- the Doordash driver's personal phone and BK's -- one bracketed by a few minutes before and a few minutes after 4am and the other roughly 4am to 4:20....

Perhaps?

Jmo
 
  • #211
Early on, there was speculation here on this forum that perhaps the household had a wifi that perhaps anyone and everyone who visited the house could log on (bearing in mind number of visitors and parties) and as such maybe the pass code had been posted up on a notice board or such for anyone to see.

That led to some speculation that if BK had been able to access the wifi he could have been using it to remotely spy on the household -or- perhaps he had tech skills sufficient to hack into devices such as TV camera or other devices.

IIRC that then led to people concluding that were that to be the case, BK's device(s) data could have been noted by the wifi or household devices, and that anyway devices can 'see' each other and that is logged even if they're not attempting to connect... something I am way too techno baffled to comprehend but that's a bit of ancient history in the development of this theory for you :)

He is alleged to have done something similar to a WSU classmate. If so, this is not so far fetched imo. It's also not smart but we see from the WSU incident that he doesn't always think beyond the immediate.

jmo

 
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  • #212
I know nothing of which I speak so forgive me.... but is it possible that BK's phone shook hands with the 1122 household wifi (because his was set to search) and the household router recorded a handshake without logging an actual phone number? In which case LE would have known about potentially two such connections -- the Doordash driver's personal phone and BK's -- one bracketed by a few minutes before and a few minutes after 4am and the other roughly 4am to 4:20....

Perhaps?

Jmo

I got the impression that the attempted connection/communication happened on one of the prior 12 stalking incident dates.

jmo
 
  • #213
And does that other Elantra have a front license plate?

It doesn't really matter if there are other similar Elantras cruising around, as long as we can see that the ONE Elantra that sped away from the scene was the same one that had BK's cell inside of it.

Well, I think his phone was still off and not detectable when he was speeding away. It only became discoverable a time later, right?
 
  • #214
Well … my router logs attempts to connect. It doesn’t keep a record of devices that just happen to be within range, but it does log identifying info of all attempts — successful or not — to connect to my network.

Without knowing more about their network’s specifics, we’re just shooting blind, MOO.

Also, as @TL4S already mentioned, I don’t know how SG would have had access to that kind of detailed investigative work?
Yeah, the main idea I was trying to convey is only actual interactions with the system are usually logged. It would be insane to log just any WiFi card within signal range, especially places next to busy thoroughfares. And thinking about it more, I’m not sure how technically feasible that would even be without purposefully doing scanning to such ends.

JMO
 
  • #215
K's impromptu visit may have impacted BL's urgency but maybe not in the way some might be assuming -- if it was her last time there before leaving ultimately for TX, it also was true that it was an unexpected visit.... the murderer, if he was aware of most goings on, he might have been resolute, "knowing" M would be alone on the 3rd floor. No K, no J (K's bf), no Murphy, no M's bf...

Additionally.... if BK had eyes/ears on M in any capacity, he may have misheard things, believing instead it was M's last night. That would explains him dogging forward, despite just about every signal tell him to reschedule.

JMO
 
  • #216
K's impromptu visit may have impacted BL's urgency but maybe not in the way some might be assuming -- if it was her last time there before leaving ultimately for TX, it also was true that it was an unexpected visit.... the murderer, if he was aware of most goings on, he might have been resolute, "knowing" M would be alone on the 3rd floor. No K, no J (K's bf), no Murphy, no M's bf...

Additionally.... if BK had eyes/ears on M in any capacity, he may have misheard things, believing instead it was M's last night. That would explains him dogging forward, despite just about every signal tell him to reschedule.

JMO

That's an interesting point, he may have mis-heard info or even assumed that KG had come to collect M and they would both be leaving for their future lives the next day.
 
  • #217
What I've never understood about this detail is how SG our anyone else knew he "touched" their wifi, if he did. Is every wifi a person has ever been near enough to detect stored somewhere on the device? What else could tell them this?

ETA: @m00c0w said it better above. So there are no logs of these "handshakes"?
Or login attempts?
 
  • #218
Here's my question about that, so I can clarify it in my own mind-----

When I click on the wi-fi symbol on the top corner of my laptop, the one that shows how many bars I have, a list drops down of all the wifi routers in the immediate area. [if I click on 'other networks]

And those networks shown are the ones closest to my own router. They show my neighbours networks, and if I had their passwords I could log in.

And if I take my laptop to a coffee shop, my list of 'other networks' will show the coffee shops wifi, and also the T-Mobile store's wifi from next store

So was Conclaves saying that the King House network would have shown up on BK's 'other network' wifi list because he was so close to the house they overlapped?
If BK had visited the victims house previously and while they’re connected to their Wi-Fi, he would automatically connect if close enough another time correct? On the other hand, if BK never actually connected to their Wi-Fi but was close enough where their network was an option, would LE see history of the victims wi-fi? Apologies if I am making no sense- Still haven’t slept!
 
  • #219
Here's my question about that, so I can clarify it in my own mind-----

When I click on the wi-fi symbol on the top corner of my laptop, the one that shows how many bars I have, a list drops down of all the wifi routers in the immediate area. [if I click on 'other networks]

And those networks shown are the ones closest to my own router. They show my neighbours networks, and if I had their passwords I could log in.

And if I take my laptop to a coffee shop, my list of 'other networks' will show the coffee shops wifi, and also the T-Mobile store's wifi from next store

So was Conclaves saying that the King House network would have shown up on BK's 'other network' wifi list because he was so close to the house they overlapped?

Yes. And people who know how to use their routers (not me) can actually look at who has been close enough to handshake it. Currently, I can "see" about 10 routers near my house. All of those are called (I think) "handshake protocols," the first step in one device contacting another - but to actually connect, a password is needed.

That's why I think Kohberger was no genius at digital forensics. He didn't even listen to the riveting podcast "To Live and Die in L.A." (in which a man murders someone and is totally brought down by his cell phone). I'm learning that there are way newer techniques used by the FBI and others to track cell phone data.
Early on, there was speculation here on this forum that perhaps the household had a wifi that perhaps anyone and everyone who visited the house could log on (bearing in mind number of visitors and parties) and as such maybe the pass code had been posted up on a notice board or such for anyone to see.

That led to some speculation that if BK had been able to access the wifi he could have been using it to remotely spy on the household -or- perhaps he had tech skills sufficient to hack into devices such as TV camera or other devices.

IIRC that then led to people concluding that were that to be the case, BK's device(s) data could have been noted by the wifi or household devices, and that anyway devices can 'see' each other and that is logged even if they're not attempting to connect... something I am way too techno baffled to comprehend but that's a bit of ancient history in the development of this theory for you :)

Even if they had their router on relative lockdown, and even if BK's phone could not connect, unless he did certain things to his own phone, that phone would be recorded as attempting a handshake with the 1122 router.

IOW, a device whose settings are "automatic join" (default for most devices) will reach out to routers within range.

I assume that Mr. Gonçalves was told they had leads from this process. They may have told him about correlations they were working on - but he surely knew. He is complying with the gag order IMO, so we don't know what he knows.

It is ancient history, but I think it behooves all of us to know that when we go to a grocery store with "free wifi," we are logged in their router/device records (and think of the ways in which that helps a business stay safe).

So in this case, now that they know the device number for Kohberger, they can trace him in yet another way (although it's not really needed - his phone pinged in Blaine, again in a few other places, then again at 1122 later on Sunday morning - and without being turned off - he retraced his drive from the night before - ending up ON CAMERA in an Albertson's and caught by an eyewitness near the Snake River).

I assume they now have the data from the businesses near where he parked, and from Albertson's, which will show that he was there. Indeed, the data from checkout at Albertson's is likely available (with more camera footage), and then he gets in his white Elantra and I wouldn't be surprised if there's video of that - and drives across the street, pausing without ordering at the coffee kiosk, then (IIRC) parking nearby (within a stone's throw of the Snake River - and quite near a campground on the River, with people coming and going; he wouldn't stand out).

IMO.
 
  • #220
I agree. It's been nagging me too ever since the pca was released with details. There were just so many obstacles that were clear signs. I think (moo) he fully intended to commit these crimes between 3-4. I think him leaving his apt at 2:45ish for a 10 minute drive initially had LE thinking this too. I don't think he planned to see all of the lights on for so long. I don't think he planned on a door dash delivery. I don't think he planned to drive around in circles in front of their house (complete with 3-pt turns) and around Moscow. Yet he still didn't call it day and go back home. Something made him think or believe it had to be that night. Not sure if it was Kaylee's return, not sure if it's numerology 1122 (November 2022), not sure if it's the "13th" day of the month. Not sure if it was the plates (get this done before final exam week at both schools?)

It could be any number of things, or it could be nothing at all. But, I can't help but think it was something. That date was important.

jmo

Watched too many scary movies so the date would be something to latch onto. Could definitely have been a combination of all these things. JMOO. I sort of just want to know and want folks like this just not to be part of the human matrix. If we understood them, could we prevent them. Again, IDK.
 
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