4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[Cool Cats]

(Some of these pictures are what I saw, only I saw "visual stars" and it ended up having to do with very peculiar anatomy of carotid arteries, nothing to do with vision at all. But then, I had no psychiatric symptoms, either, just fear when I happened).

I can already link these symptoms to five different conditions. I think it remains "visual snow" when no better diagnosis can be offered.

(Interesting that antiseizure medications help. Recently Lamotrigine has been found to have benefits in OCD, but it is "btw".)

The problem with BK the way I see it, we have no information from his doctors. PCP, neurologist, opthalmologist, psychiatrist, maybe ENT. No blood work, and he was a vegetarian. Iron, B12... so we can't tie up his complaints to anything except for say that "something was, probably, wrong with him".

I hope BK is being tested. Post-Covid, we see more depression, more problematic behavior. There is more need in prevention, and for this, we should know more. The Idaho four cannot be helped, and the same is true for BK. But maybe, for some young children, help is available? We need to learn.

We won't get more medical information or verified medical information until the Penalty Phase Trial.

Any medical conditions can be considered MITIGATING FACTORS. Mitigating factors would be presented to the jury for why he should not get the DP.

During the trial it will not work for a Doctor to say he was not physically capable of committing the murders.

But any health issues maybe will mitigate his sentence.

But I get your point, we need to know more in order to learn how to help prevent?

We won't ever know why BK did this unless BK ADMITS he did this then on top of that explains why. Unfortunately even when he is found guilty he will say he is being framed and appeal it.

I'm 100% sure he is the only one involved and will be found guilty.

Opinion

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

From what I can gather, VSS is diagnosed by a criteria of self-reported, purely subjective symptoms along with requiring exclusion of other diseases. The diagnosis is dependent upon the symptoms that the patient reports. In other words, it's far different than taking and x-ray of a painful arm and confirming that a fracture is present. And an ophthalmologists or neurologist cannot look into the eyes and identify VSS as they are able to with, for instance, floaters. They rely solely upon the patient's symptom complaints. There is no definitive test.

Diagnosing visual snow syndrome requires meeting certain diagnostic criteria. Self-reported, subjective symptoms.

It certainly sounds, MOO, that the author of the VSS posts had some very major mental health issues whether it was VSS or not. I just find it distasteful that there is any connection being implied that this diagnosis could have kindled the making of a murderer. moo

 

[Helechawagirl]

And IMO, BK does have VSS. I find his TapATalk messages convincing, but beyond that, as I've become more familiar with VSS, I think it explains a great deal about him (including the heroin). He was on the right drugs for it, knew the dosages, and had clearly seen a specialist to get put on those medicines.

There are some writers with VSS who have written short stories about the experience and it is really one of the peculiar neurological disorders (Oliver Sacks level of unusualness).

I'm not even sure he stares just at women. He stares at the two Indiana policemen. He stares around the courtroom. He's not big on blinking (which is an adaptation that people with VSS use - they need more visual information and go longer without blinking). We may never know for sure whether he has it, as it may not be an issue at trial (I don't see how it could come in, except maybe in the penalty phase). He isn't asking for care or treatment for it. I think he thinks he "cured" it in himself by making enormous changes in his lifestyle and coping mechanisms (he still sees the snow, but has tried to root out some of the other symptoms - which I think probably still plague him).

He's just generally very intense, completely trapped inside his own head, and cannot make friendly contact with others (regardless of their sex or gender). I think he dislikes women.

VSS is neither here nor there in terms of his criminal situation. It's just interesting to me that some elements of the crime strike me as belonging a certain group of neuropsychiatric group of symptoms, which would include his inability to understand or have compassion for others.

I agree. For me, his writings showed how frustrated he was at doing everything he could do to just be a normal person from kicking drugs to transforming himself physically, becoming a night person because his vision didn’t bother him as much at night. Despite all of that, he just didn’t fit in. Nothing he did made a difference. He was different from the day he was born. I do believe there is a brain defect in BK and others like him. When football players or wrestlers have brain injuries and then suddenly murder their whole families. In my mind, there’s a connection and I strongly feel we should be studying their brains and developing treatments.

I don’t think the victims in Moscow were targeted because of a personal grudge. I believe they represented a symbol of everything he worked for and knew he was never going to achieve. All was lost. He wasn’t going to have a distinguished career. He wasn’t going to have a family.

If he could kill without discovery, then that was a self-validating win. If caught and sentenced to death, he may have a sense of relief. I don’t know. I do think that if he wrote a book on how to identify and treat serial killers, I’d want to read it.

I watched part of a show the other night with Jeffrey Dahmer. Apparently his family just moved without him one time. He was abandoned. His mother then took her other son and left. He said that he drugged and his victims because he just wanted them to stay and let him do whatever he wanted. I think there was more to it because his eyes were making rapid movements. I think control played a big role.

I think serial killers feel helpless and without hope in other areas of their lives, but there’s a chemical lacking or a neural pathway that’s broken or missing— possibly from birth—or possibly from a fall or bump on the head—perhaps even a seemingly insignificant one. What’s different? Obviously thousands have injuries and don’t commit murder. Why not? Just my overactive mind at 3 a.m. I’ll be relieved when the trial gets started. I hope we get some surface answers at least.

 

[Swansee]

Hi everyone,
I missed a bunch of threads and only just getting done reading this one now.
Nice to see that calm and sanity prevail here, it's refreshing compared to a lot of the talk about this case on other platforms.
I was watching the Websleuths YouTube interview with the author of While Idaho Slept. The author emphasized how, while BK may not have been a genius, his path from that small town to a PhD program at WSU is pretty exceptional. Definitely not an idiot.
I don't buy into all the conspiracy theories, but I do have a hard time accepting that someone trained in that field, who might not be a genius but is still clearly no moron by a long shot, would make such a series of huge mistakes.
I mean aside from forgetting the sheath, driving his own car to the scene AND bringing his phone? And most incredible: buying the knife on Amazon?! Liking pictures of the victims and following them on social media?! His specialty field is digital stuff so that's really one field in which he should know better than to make these mistakes. Especially because none of that was in the heat of the moment.
I'm just baffled. Making one mistake, ok, but ALL of them?
Sorry if this has all been said a million times.
Moo etc...

 

[Justice101]

Hi everyone,
I missed a bunch of threads and only just getting done reading this one now.
Nice to see that calm and sanity prevail here, it's refreshing compared to a lot of the talk about this case on other platforms.
I was watching the Websleuths YouTube interview with the author of While Idaho Slept. The author emphasized how, while BK may not have been a genius, his path from that small town to a PhD program at WSU is pretty exceptional. Definitely not an idiot.
I don't buy into all the conspiracy theories, but I do have a hard time accepting that someone trained in that field, who might not be a genius but is still clearly no moron by a long shot, would make such a series of huge mistakes.
I mean aside from forgetting the sheath, driving his own car to the scene AND bringing his phone? And most incredible: buying the knife on Amazon?! Liking pictures of the victims and following them on social media?! His specialty field is digital stuff so that's really one field in which he should know better than to make these mistakes. Especially because none of that was in the heat of the moment.
I'm just baffled. Making one mistake, ok, but ALL of them?
Sorry if this has all been said a million times.
Moo etc...

He was dumb in a few ways and smart in some others:

DUMB
1) Used his own car with only front license plate narrowing the field down to <10% of the cars in the area.
2) Took his phone with him. turned it off and on.
3) Left his DNA on a knife sheath left at the crime scene
4) Made 3 additional passes before deciding to stop and do the crime. Caught on video multiple times.

SMART
1) Wore a mask
2) Wore gloves
3) Cleaned his car to the max
4) Got rid of the knife and clothes.
5) Attempted to hide his DNA from investigators at his parents house just in case LE followed him back to PA

He pre-planned it pretty well but, like they say, all criminals make mistakes... I think he just thought he wouldn't make any mistakes.

I honestly think before the assault, he had thought he wiped off all his DNA from the knife and the knife sheath... and if he hadn't made that bad mistake, I don't think the description of the vehicle would have been enough to convict him (which I believe without a doubt he will be convicted if he doesn't get a plea deal.)

 

[Megnut]

He was dumb in a few ways and smart in some others:

DUMB
1) Used his own car with only front license plate narrowing the field down to <10% of the cars in the area.
2) Took his phone with him. turned it off and on.
3) Left his DNA on a knife sheath left at the crime scene
4) Made 3 additional passes before deciding to stop and do the crime. Caught on video multiple times.

SMART
1) Wore a mask
2) Wore gloves
3) Cleaned his car to the max
4) Got rid of the knife and clothes.
5) Attempted to hide his DNA from investigators at his parents house just in case LE followed him back to PA

He pre-planned it pretty well but, like they say, all criminals make mistakes... I think he just thought he wouldn't make any mistakes.

I honestly think before the assault, he had thought he wiped off all his DNA from the knife and the knife sheath... and if he hadn't made that bad mistake, I don't think the description of the vehicle would have been enough to convict him (which I believe without a doubt he will be convicted if he doesn't get a plea deal.)

And he may have made an attempt to obscure his vehicle. Stolen plate, for example. Thought he was invisible because of it.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Hi everyone,
I missed a bunch of threads and only just getting done reading this one now.
Nice to see that calm and sanity prevail here, it's refreshing compared to a lot of the talk about this case on other platforms.
I was watching the Websleuths YouTube interview with the author of While Idaho Slept. The author emphasized how, while BK may not have been a genius, his path from that small town to a PhD program at WSU is pretty exceptional. Definitely not an idiot.
I don't buy into all the conspiracy theories, but I do have a hard time accepting that someone trained in that field, who might not be a genius but is still clearly no moron by a long shot, would make such a series of huge mistakes.
I mean aside from forgetting the sheath, driving his own car to the scene AND bringing his phone? And most incredible: buying the knife on Amazon?! Liking pictures of the victims and following them on social media?! His specialty field is digital stuff so that's really one field in which he should know better than to make these mistakes. Especially because none of that was in the heat of the moment.
I'm just baffled. Making one mistake, ok, but ALL of them?
Sorry if this has all been said a million times.
Moo etc...

I find it hard to believe so many aspects of this case too. In no way suggesting BK is innocent or LE have got it all wrong or some conspiracy.

However, there's aspects that make no sense. For example there was obviously forward planning and preparation but then he made the huge error of dropping the sheath and also entering a home that he had no idea who was inside.

We've discussed this a lot over time on here and my thoughts are either -

1) He never intended to perpetrate all these murders at all but did intend to 'hot' prowl around the house, with his knife for protection and the whole thing just unfolded in the most horrific way possible;

2) He did intend to target one person on the false belief she was alone in her room and it all went out of control;

3) He no longer cared what became of him; Also it's really astounding that LE were not at the scene so much earlier in the day, so he had a whole lot of extra time during which the murders weren't even known about if his original stance had been 'no longer cares' then he moved into 'wow I've got away with it'.

 

[pseudo_hum]

He was dumb in a few ways and smart in some others:

DUMB
1) Used his own car with only front license plate narrowing the field down to <10% of the cars in the area.
2) Took his phone with him. turned it off and on.
3) Left his DNA on a knife sheath left at the crime scene
4) Made 3 additional passes before deciding to stop and do the crime. Caught on video multiple times.

SMART
1) Wore a mask
2) Wore gloves
3) Cleaned his car to the max
4) Got rid of the knife and clothes.
5) Attempted to hide his DNA from investigators at his parents house just in case LE followed him back to PA

He pre-planned it pretty well but, like they say, all criminals make mistakes... I think he just thought he wouldn't make any mistakes.

I honestly think before the assault, he had thought he wiped off all his DNA from the knife and the knife sheath... and if he hadn't made that bad mistake, I don't think the description of the vehicle would have been enough to convict him (which I believe without a doubt he will be convicted if he doesn't get a plea deal.)

IMO, when you think you are the smartest guy in the room....You got it all figured out.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

And he may have made an attempt to obscure his vehicle. Stolen plate, for example. Thought he was invisible because of it.

JMO

Yes he might have had enough knowledge of detection to feel assured that his car was not identifiable.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

IMO, when you think you are the smartest guy in the room....You got it all figured out.

Agree. Some who are successful in “academia” are not successful outside the structured world of theory, term papers and exams. He was unsuccessful in high school/vocational school both interpersonally and academically, spent some lost time “addicted”, fired from jobs, a bad driver … . I’m not impressed by his “phd” program - don’t know if it’s actually “hard” to get into this program, he was there for only a matter of weeks hardly enough time to become a criminal expert. All around, BK is average (at best) at everything he’s done.

 

[Valen2]

Agree. Some who are successful in “academia” are not successful outside the structured world of theory, term papers and exams. He was unsuccessful in high school/vocational school both interpersonally and academically, spent some lost time “addicted”, fired from jobs, a bad driver … . I’m not impressed by his “phd” program - don’t know if it’s actually “hard” to get into this program, he was there for only a matter of weeks hardly enough time to become a criminal expert. All around, BK is average (at best) at everything he’s done.

Exactly. You can also never prepare yourself for something like this. He may have thought he knew what it was going to be like, but there are a million things you can't plan for, and then it all went haywire. Criminals make what seems to be incredibly dumb mistakes all the time, and I think part of the explanation for that is, the actual experience is so much different than what it is expected to be. Also, forensics and technology have come so far and are still advancing rapidly. To avoid detection, criminals in 2023 have to do so much more than criminals, in say, the 1970s.

 

[ilovewings]

Exactly. You can also never prepare yourself for something like this. He may have thought he knew what it was going to be like, but there are a million things you can't plan for, and then it all went haywire. Criminals make what seems to be incredibly dumb mistakes all the time, and I think part of the explanation for that is, the actual experience is so much different than what it is expected to be. Also, forensics and technology have come so far and are still advancing rapidly. To avoid detection, criminals in 2023 have to do so much more than criminals, in say, the 1970s.

Emotions come into play when a person is committing a crime- emotions are something they don't expect to intervene in the crime and they cannot plan for the emotional impact of actually killing a person or several persons. Mistakes, like leaving a sheath is one of the things that can happen while in the frenzy of killing people.

Whatever the emotion is, let's say fear of getting caught, or some other emotion, can have a huge impact while committing a crime. All the planning cannot take into account the actual moment when the killer is actually committing the crime. The killer can't plan for that emotion, whatever it is.

 

[maskedwoman]

I find it hard to believe so many aspects of this case too. In no way suggesting BK is innocent or LE have got it all wrong or some conspiracy.

However, there's aspects that make no sense. For example there was obviously forward planning and preparation but then he made the huge error of dropping the sheath and also entering a home that he had no idea who was inside.

We've discussed this a lot over time on here and my thoughts are either -

1) He never intended to perpetrate all these murders at all but did intend to 'hot' prowl around the house, with his knife for protection and the whole thing just unfolded in the most horrific way possible;

2) He did intend to target one person on the false belief she was alone in her room and it all went out of control;

3) He no longer cared what became of him; Also it's really astounding that LE were not at the scene so much earlier in the day, so he had a whole lot of extra time during which the murders weren't even known about if his original stance had been 'no longer cares' then he moved into 'wow I've got away with it'.

There are many things about this case that puzzle me. I'm hopefully at least some of them will be resolved at trial. I will say that I find it difficult to think that he went there intending only to hot prowl - primarily because his first victim was sleeping. It was stabbing her that started the spiral of death.

I'm also still struggling with exactly what he intended to do. Did he go there intending to rape someone and it blew up in his face because the girls were sleeping together? Did he go into the house alone, intending to kill the 5 people who were still living there? Did he know Kaylee was there, meaning he intended to take on six victims on his own? Starting with mass murder is pretty intense for someone who has never killed anyone before. Or did he intend to kill one person and then it spiraled? I just don't know. But it does appear that he went intending to kill since he apparently had a plan for dealing with being covered in blood.

My nephew is a police officer, and teaches active shooter training classes. One thing he told me is that even when officers are confronted by an armed person, the size of their opponent's weapon increases in the officers mind. A 22 looks like a 357. So to young people who had just been peacefully sleeping, that k-bar would have looked like a butcher knife or a sword. No one runs toward a knife. They back away if you have any choice at all. I think just being armed would have allowed BK to escape if all he intended was to hot prowl. MOOooo

 

[ilovewings]

There are many things about this case that puzzle me. I'm hopefully at least some of them will be resolved at trial. I will say that I find it difficult to think that he went there intending only to hot prowl - primarily because his first victim was sleeping. It was stabbing her that started the spiral of death.

I'm also still struggling with exactly what he intended to do. Did he go there intending to rape someone and it blew up in his face because the girls were sleeping together? Did he go into the house alone, intending to kill the 5 people who were still living there? Did he know Kaylee was there, meaning he intended to take on six victims on his own? Starting with mass murder is pretty intense for someone who has never killed anyone before. Or did he intend to kill one person and then it spiraled? I just don't know. But it does appear that he went intending to kill since he apparently had a plan for dealing with being covered in blood.

My nephew is a police officer, and teaches active shooter training classes. One thing he told me is that even when officers are confronted by an armed person, the size of their opponent's weapon increases in the officers mind. A 22 looks like a 357. So to young people who had just been peacefully sleeping, that k-bar would have looked like a butcher knife or a sword. No one runs toward a knife. They back away if you have any choice at all. I think just being armed would have allowed BK to escape if all he intended was to hot prowl. MOOooo

He committed these killings very quickly- so I believe he went there to kill and get out as fast as he could.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Hi everyone,
I missed a bunch of threads and only just getting done reading this one now.
Nice to see that calm and sanity prevail here, it's refreshing compared to a lot of the talk about this case on other platforms.
I was watching the Websleuths YouTube interview with the author of While Idaho Slept. The author emphasized how, while BK may not have been a genius, his path from that small town to a PhD program at WSU is pretty exceptional. Definitely not an idiot.
I don't buy into all the conspiracy theories, but I do have a hard time accepting that someone trained in that field, who might not be a genius but is still clearly no moron by a long shot, would make such a series of huge mistakes.
I mean aside from forgetting the sheath, driving his own car to the scene AND bringing his phone? And most incredible: buying the knife on Amazon?! Liking pictures of the victims and following them on social media?! His specialty field is digital stuff so that's really one field in which he should know better than to make these mistakes. Especially because none of that was in the heat of the moment.
I'm just baffled. Making one mistake, ok, but ALL of them?
Sorry if this has all been said a million times.
Moo etc...

Yes it is odd isn’t it unless he just imploded after the issues with his supervisor/professor. Or perhaps he underestimated the local LE?

 

[Justice101]

He committed these killings very quickly- so I believe he went there to kill and get out as fast as he could.

I think he went there to kill 1, perhaps 2 people and the other 2 we collateral damage.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think he went there to kill 1, perhaps 2 people and the other 2 we collateral damage.

I might believe that if they weren't found in completely different areas of the home. They weren't just on different floors, one pair was at the front of the home, the others were at the back. I think there was some deliberate choice, here, whether it's because he had been stalking the house and knew which rooms to target, whether the rooms targeted had some light or sound that drew him, or whether it was spur of the moment 'if someone's behind this door, I'll kill them', I have no idea. He certainly didn't do a full sweep of the home, or no one would have survived. He passed D's door no fewer than THREE TIMES and never entered her room. One of those times, her door was cracked and she watched him pass. That's an unthinkably close shave with certain death.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He committed these killings very quickly- so I believe he went there to kill and get out as fast as he could.

At the same time, even if he only went intending to kill (or harm) one person, the same urgency and motivation to kill everyone and get out as fast as possible would still be there after the plan went wrong.

 

[ilovewings]

At the same time, even if he only went intending to kill (or harm) one person, the same urgency and motivation to kill everyone and get out as fast as possible would still be there after the plan went wrong.

Absolutely!

 

[AcousticViper]

Why do sex offenders snatch people from the street into darkened stairwells or passageways, when risk of alert is so high? Or gang members engage rivals in view of security cameras? Why do people hold up banks in broad daylight knowing a random patrol car might be less than 1 minute away?

In that moment, the desire/urge to commit the act is stronger than the deterrent or wondering what your family/friends might think should you be caught. Perpetrators are not always thinking logically. A more powerful impulse is driving them.

That's why "I would never be so stupid to commit the act I stand accused of, your honor" never works in court. Evidence reigns supreme.