4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

[Cool Cats]

<modsnip>

I had listened to it previously but not focused on that part. So, I relistened. Which made me think I heard morning. Perhaps Sunday morning those two words just go together in your mind and it filled in the blanks as opposed to heard the words. So I relistened. Then I figured out nope it didn't say morning. JMOO

Human nature is very interesting even when it's you.

Very diplomatic ....

Cool reply CG, thanks!

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip>

I had listened to it previously but not focused on that part. So, I relistened. Which made me think I heard morning. Perhaps Sunday morning those two words just go together in your mind and it filled in the blanks as opposed to heard the words. So I relistened. Then I figured out nope it didn't say morning. JMOO

Human nature is very interesting even when it's you.

Right? Sunday morning is a phrase. I was watching a brain video that analyzed how the various parts of the brain all process words a bit differently. I think that's why the reporters (who constantly use their own short hand) end up saying "morning," because something is evoked in human consciousness (it's not dark, it's light - it provides a bit of light in a grim situation, but that doesn't make it factual).

Video about variation in the human brain's processing of incoming language.

In this case, it was spoken language, but it works the same way with reading. Words are special in this regard. We used to think all the words were stored in Broca's and Wernicke's subunits of the brain. And they *are* stored there, but the rest of the brain has areas that also store words and light up simultaneously with Wernicke's detection of the sounds.

 

[Boxer]

IMO knowing what time the student texting started and who sent the first text would logically be worthwhile knowing. It could be important or it could be unimportant. For example: what would LE make of it if the texts began at 9am versus around noon? We don't know what time they began and there is no public information as to if this was investigated, so all I can suggest is that LE should definitely find out when the first message was sent and by whom if they have not already.

What if questions.
They are part of defense strategy to get discussions going away from what happened during the crime.
Unless the point of this discussion topic is to implicate and discredit the roommates, only waiting for the official timeline of the aftermath will answer questions.

 

[schooling]

If LE has cleared all of the friends. And that fact is inconsequential to the analysis of the time of the text messages (aka the text messages themselves aren't suspicious).

What are the implications then?

I'm not sure I'm understanding. Even 7am text messages wouldn't be exculpatory to BK. As it still fits the current timeline. Is this purely to make the prosecution/le look bad?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If LE has cleared all of the friends. And that fact is inconsequential to the analysis of the time of the text messages (aka the text messages themselves aren't suspicious).

What are the implications then?

I'm not sure I'm understanding. Even 7am text messages wouldn't be exculpatory to BK. As it still fits the current timeline. Is this purely to make the prosecution/le look bad?

This was already explained, but some of us care about the timeline of when friends arrived and when news broke to the campus community. It has nothing to do with making the prosecution look bad. It has to do with understanding the crime, the timeline of what happened when, and how it all relates to BK.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

What if questions.
They are part of defense strategy to get discussions going away from what happened during the crime.
Unless the point of this discussion topic is to implicate and discredit the roommates, only waiting for the official timeline of the aftermath will answer questions.

That's what this type of questioning does. On several levels. I would be very surprised if some legal assistant in AT"s office doesn't check in here (and on reddit, etc) almost every day. Further, the victims themselves may end up learning that they're being questioned and discredited online (by misstatements, no less).

It's a time for empathy. I hope they don't have to testify or if they do, that's way into the trial, WAY after the other stuff (which the Defense will not want out there for weeks) has been talked about. If I were Thompson, I wouldn't call them (but I might call one of the other people who showed up - IF those persons indicated willingness to testify).

Indeed, one of the interesting points of pre-trial will be the witness list. The State does *not* have to call either of the living victims. They can put them on the list, but not call them. And if I were Thompson, I'd start with the coldest, hardest facts - so that a few weeks (or many weeks) later, the jury will understand why the victims are uncertain, still traumatized. Indeed, some of what those two witnesses might say about the crime scene would chill the blood of any warm-hearted human.

If the Defense calls them as hostile witnesses, as a juror, I'd be folding my arms and wondering about that. It's a move that can really backfire. I can't think of a single thing that either roommate would be needed to attest to for the State. The only reason the Defense would call them would be to make it look like some information was overlooked/confusing/possibly contradictory (because the women are traumatized - which will be very clear). I'd respond vigorously with expert testimony, not cross-examination. Get rebuttal witnesses to testify about PTSD. The jury will be grateful - as they'll be suffering from it themselves, by then. Most of you have probably never been an autopsy nor seen complete autopsy photo dossiers. Almost certainly, none of the jurors (pulled from Latah County's approximate 28,000 adults) will have seen any and certainly will NOT have seen these particular autopsy photos. The description that SG gave of the wounds was pretty specific - and yet, we haven't discussed it much here (only in early threads) because it's awful. But it is consistent with someone attempting to use military-style knife techniques, that's for sure (IMO, IME).

And nothing the two victims have to say will change the DNA, the car data, the cell data, the GPS data, the video surveillance data, or potential evidence involving searching for KaBar knives online or buying one. Plus, there are some amazing other witnesses to call in about BK's state of mind (I can think of two professors). Oh, and the footprint (not just shoe) analysis.

IMO. Much speculation about trial above.

 

[Balthazar]

What if questions.
They are part of defense strategy to get discussions going away from what happened during the crime.
Unless the point of this discussion topic is to implicate and discredit the roommates, only waiting for the official timeline of the aftermath will answer questions.

Wrong. I am seeking to put structure and order into a complex case with many facets using what information is available. I also compare the crime to other similar historic cases and their solutions because they are often good predictors of the outcome of a current case.

 

[schooling]

This was already explained, but some of us care about the timeline of when friends arrived and when news broke to the campus community. It has nothing to do with making the prosecution look bad. It has to do with understanding the crime, the timeline of what happened when, and how it all relates to BK.

MOO.

Cool. There was definitely a lot of chatter that morning day (anything before 12pm is morning to me. just a habit). Most of the PCA information was floating around in the days following the crime.

It's all very murky and Mandela effect like. I, like many others, remember seeing pictures of students already gathered around the house by the time the media arrived and some of them sitting on the little sidewalk mourning....yet the picture isn't on any newspaper's website...nor is it on any sister/syndication feed of any of the paper's partners' websites (i.e. Yahoo, MSN, etc), nor any archive site(which are not controlled by said papers). So now I'm questioning whether the picture even exists.

 

[Balthazar]

Who do you suspect was texting if not the people present when 911 was called? The police publicly cleared them all. It would have to be someone besides the roommates and besides the friends that were there that they called. The police know who they called based on their phone records. If needed, then they could follow the phone records of the people the friends called. They cleared them all, and the video has also confirmed that she did not say morning.

When you construct a timeline it is helpful to be able to use evidence to determine what happened and when it happened. This concept may be far too esoteric, but all I am doing is creating structure out of a chaotic set of events.

How is it important? No one has the timeline yet.

For my structure, it is very important. And yes, we do have quite a bit of the alleged timeline from the PCA and from news articles and from statements made by people directly involved in this case.

 

[Deleted member 718]

This will be an interesting segment. I'll try to find the complete video after it airs tonight.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724953165966258561

 

[Cool Cats]

That's what this type of questioning does. On several levels. I would be very surprised if some legal assistant in AT"s office doesn't check in here (and on reddit, etc) almost every day. Further, the victims themselves may end up learning that they're being questioned and discredited online (by misstatements, no less).

It's a time for empathy. I hope they don't have to testify or if they do, that's way into the trial, WAY after the other stuff (which the Defense will not want out there for weeks) has been talked about. If I were Thompson, I wouldn't call them (but I might call one of the other people who showed up - IF those persons indicated willingness to testify).

Indeed, one of the interesting points of pre-trial will be the witness list. The State does *not* have to call either of the living victims. They can put them on the list, but not call them. And if I were Thompson, I'd start with the coldest, hardest facts - so that a few weeks (or many weeks) later, the jury will understand why the victims are uncertain, still traumatized. Indeed, some of what those two witnesses might say about the crime scene would chill the blood of any warm-hearted human.

If the Defense calls them as hostile witnesses, as a juror, I'd be folding my arms and wondering about that. It's a move that can really backfire. I can't think of a single thing that either roommate would be needed to attest to for the State. The only reason the Defense would call them would be to make it look like some information was overlooked/confusing/possibly contradictory (because the women are traumatized - which will be very clear). I'd respond vigorously with expert testimony, not cross-examination. Get rebuttal witnesses to testify about PTSD. The jury will be grateful - as they'll be suffering from it themselves, by then. Most of you have probably never been an autopsy nor seen complete autopsy photo dossiers. Almost certainly, none of the jurors (pulled from Latah County's approximate 28,000 adults) will have seen any and certainly will NOT have seen these particular autopsy photos. The description that SG gave of the wounds was pretty specific - and yet, we haven't discussed it much here (only in early threads) because it's awful. But it is consistent with someone attempting to use military-style knife techniques, that's for sure (IMO, IME).

And nothing the two victims have to say will change the DNA, the car data, the cell data, the GPS data, the video surveillance data, or potential evidence involving searching for KaBar knives online or buying one. Plus, there are some amazing other witnesses to call in about BK's state of mind (I can think of two professors). Oh, and the footprint (not just shoe) analysis.

IMO. Much speculation about trial above.

I believe the prosecution will need to call DM. DM's testimony helped with the probable cause Arrest Warrant. Without knowing BK, her identification alerted a LE officer to BK's drivers license as fitting her description.

Yes many people can fit her description but her description helped lead specifically to BK and makes it so the defense can't use her testimony to rule BK out.

How Bryan Kohberger's eyebrows helped police link him to ...

Kohberger is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary in connection with the killings of four college students.

www.newsweek.com

On November 29, Daniel Tiengo, a WSU police officer, found a white Hyundai Elantra registered to Kohberger and that information was passed to Corporal Brett Payne, the Moscow police's lead investigator. Payne felt "a mounting sense of triumph" when he typed the vehicle's details into the motor vehicles record system and saw Kohberger's photo because.....

Kohberger's photo matched the witness description.

At least 5' 10" and Kohberger's license shows he is 6 feet tall.

Not muscular but athletically built and Kohberger's license shows he weighed 185 pounds. This is perfect. If he was a muscular guy he would have weighed more than 185. 185 is a lean athletic weight for a 6 foot guy.

Bushy eyebrows and Kohberger's license shows distinct bushy eyebrows and a prominent eyebrow ridge.

His license also shows that he is a white male and no other race has been mentioned.

 

[Boxer]

This was already explained, but some of us care about the timeline of when friends arrived and when news broke to the campus community. It has nothing to do with making the prosecution look bad. It has to do with understanding the crime, the timeline of what happened when, and how it all relates to BK.

MOO.

I am interested in the morning, BK came back in the morning. Not sure if he made that same Linda Ln. loop on that return trip but cameras should reveal.
BK then a little later made a trip down to the Snake River at Lewiston and went to the Albertsons.

 

[DizzyB]

Cool. There was definitely a lot of chatter that morning day (anything before 12pm is morning to me. just a habit). Most of the PCA information was floating around in the days following the crime.

It's all very murky and Mandela effect like. I, like many others, remember seeing pictures of students already gathered around the house by the time the media arrived and some of them sitting on the little sidewalk mourning....yet the picture isn't on any newspaper's website...nor is it on any sister/syndication feed of any of the paper's partners' websites (i.e. Yahoo, MSN, etc), nor any archive site(which are not controlled by said papers). So now I'm questioning whether the picture even exists.

The picture exists, but it is no longer available on any site that I have found. When I saw it, I’m not even positive that the King Road deaths had been declared homicides yet. Kids at the curb, some huddled in blankets, I went back a few days later to look at the article once the rumors began about one of the roommates being a witness. I wanted to see if she was in the photo, as she looked familiar. Photo had been removed from the article-things were changing rapidly at that time.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am interested in the morning, BK came back in the morning. Not sure if he made that same Linda Ln. loop on that return trip but cameras should reveal.
BK then a little later made a trip down to the Snake River at Lewiston and went to the Albertsons.

As I said one of the areas of speculation is around whether or not BK returned to find the sheath and maybe the timing of the open door was off by a half hour. JMO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

This was already explained, but some of us care about the timeline of when friends arrived and when news broke to the campus community. It has nothing to do with making the prosecution look bad. It has to do with understanding the crime, the timeline of what happened when, and how it all relates to BK.

MOO.

I’m still trying to understand how a heartfelt tribute by a loving friend at a vigil one year later warrants microanalysis as though it was a sworn statement?

I’m curious, too, to know more about the timeline!

Those involved can publicly share whatever details they want — they aren’t covered by the gag order.

All MOO, as always.

 

[Boxer]

Wrong. I am seeking to put structure and order into a complex case with many facets using what information is available. I also compare the crime to other similar historic cases and their solutions because they are often good predictors of the outcome of a current case.

In your opinion I am wrong.

What Ithink you are saying is you are looking for legal prededent or pattern of outcomes becaise of the behavior of witnesses?

MOO Sounds like looking at the defense's standard tool box, and one of such tools is the ability to leverage negative bias about witness behavior or background to disract from facts of the case.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I’m still trying to understand how a heartfelt tribute by a loving friend at a vigil one year later warrants microanalysis as though it was a sworn statement?

I’m curious, too, to know more about the timeline!

Those involved can publicly share whatever details they want — they aren’t covered by the gag order.

All MOO, as always.

Every single thing about the case has been microanalyzed. If it's in MSM, it's fair game to discuss here. IMO, it's interesting for reasons I stated above.

MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

He looks that way in every hearing, IMO. He smirks, and looks very smug, like he is sure he will beat this.

Someone who was innocent and falsely accused of a quadruple murder, would not look so smug and pleased with himself, IMO. I think he'd be very worried and anxious, not arrogant and calm, cool and collected. JMO

Trial for Idaho college killings suspect Bryan Kohberger delayed indefinitely - ABC News​

Respectfully, we can't always interpret the facial expressions or gestures of different people. A) We don't quite know what it means in a specific culture or even a different part of own country, B) individual expressions may be inconsistent with the situation. One example is so-called "pseudobulbar affect".

Pseudobulbar affect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(The list of "causes" is interesting).

We all have seen it, at least once. Do you remember BR smiling when asked about JBR in the interview that many of us saw? People commented on it; I suspect it was merely a form of PBA (smiling or laughing that is not appropriate to the situation).

On some days i think that BK may display mild PBA, and on other days, I believe that he is awkward and tense with his body movements and facial expression, and it merely resembles PBA. In no day do i think he is smirking or smug. JMO.

(Another example: some people I grew up with were exceptionally sensitive to cold, and in cooler places, it would manifest, among other symptoms, as tense facial expression. One of them would be shivering, trembling and sneezing at 20 degrees Celcius (68 F), and it would not imply, "scared" or "sick". I assume that his affect would be "normal" in the temperature range of 22 to 40C, and "very tense" at 20 C. I don't know how BK's thermoregulation is.)

 

[Valen2]

This was already explained, but some of us care about the timeline of when friends arrived and when news broke to the campus community. It has nothing to do with making the prosecution look bad. It has to do with understanding the crime, the timeline of what happened when, and how it all relates to BK.

MOO.

There were definitely implications that this changed everything and that the defense should look into it, and then, it turns out that she didn't even say morning, so nothing has actually changed.

 

[maskedwoman]

Apparently Xana's sister announced a gigantic hole in teh prosecutions case on National Television in front of millions of viewers and no one caught it until now?

I apologize if this has already been resolved, but the call originally went out as an unconscious person because the people calling 911 were too distraught for the operator/dispatcher/whichever to understand the situation. That is apparently the procedure for the area under those circumstances. The first officers to arrive were no doubt shocked by what they found and had to summon detectives, forensics, etc. The detective was almost 2 hours getting there because of that. I believe he was also "out of pocket" as we say in my area.