4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[katydid23]

I doubt the survivor's testimony will be very important in this case. For one survivor, she can roughly establish the time of the crime and a bushy eyed man in a mask. We don't know anything about what the other survivor saw or heard (other than rumors).

The defense has access to their police interviews and statements. Most likely they will emphasize points they feel are beneficial to their case. They will also likely emphasize that neither witness got a good look at the perpetrator. Unless one or both change their stories from earlier statements, there is no need or benefit to grilling either witness.

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

 

[MollyHarps]

IDK. He took a pretty big knife for someone who was not planning to use it on anyone.

If he was just planning to rape someone, there are hundreds of potential victims he could have taken on that were alone. JMO

I agree - also it would be risky to break in and sexually assault somebody in a house of many residents (especially when he probably knew at least one of the occupants was still awake due to the door dash delivery).

I don’t participate in this thread much but I do try to follow it as much as possible - can I just say the work that some of you have done in this thread has been so informative and outstanding.

I hope the families get justice soon.

 

[schooling]

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

Not claiming to be an expert at all...and maybe one of our resident WS experts can chime in....so all of the below is MOO

I'd imagine that both of the girls were questioned by trained experts who might be able to testify to what exactly might have happened to them on that night from a psychological POV. Which should better put it into context. I think some of the motions the defense had filed is evidence of them preparing for it.

I'm hoping that even the that most skeptical juror will be able to empathize with them after their testimony and the supporting testimony of experts.

Edit: Just to add quickly. I remember one time headed home from a bar about 10 minutes away from my home. It was me and two friends. A car about 200 yards ahead of us took off like airplane (all you saw were the taillights) and disappeared into the night, around a bend of 95. we were the first to pull over to help them. the car was upside down with the radio blaring and the wheels still spinning. the driver was in his seat, with his seat belt still on fully conscious. And couldn't stop screaming "my cousin! my cousin!"as he was looking towards an empty passenger seat.

we unbuckled him and against our advisement he joined two of us while we started to look around the dark area filled with bushes and tall grass, aside of a tall fence separating 95 from a national brand furniture store.

our 3rd friend froze in complete panic once we all realized the cousin was either somewhere out there in this area or had fell into the highway. and we had no clue what condition he was in or what we might see. the reality of what he might find literally left him in complete shock and panic and he did not want to look. and this was a complete stranger.

so i find myself empathizing with DM.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

it seems obvious to me that students get up late on Sunday.
A party house, noisy Saturday night? Dont be a wuss it's fine.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was rewatching Bryan Entin's interview with KG's parents and noticed something I had previously missed.
Discussing the investigators' return to the house and why they need to do new scans, the exchange just after the 30:40 timestamp goes like this:

"Kristi: And I mean the stuff they're doing now, is it the same stuff they did before and they're just doing it again, or brand new stuff? I don't know what they're doing, I don't know what they did before, I don't know what they're doing now.
Steve: They didn't do the under."

Did I hear what Steve said correctly?
Is Steve referring to LIDAR type scans of the property? Or a faro of a basement? I didn't think there was a basement.
What is "the under"?

Definitely no basement. What is interesting is normally when another higher level floor is added it is the top floor but not the King Rd house where the first floor was actually added later.

The house used to be just the 2nd and 3rd floors. The 2nd floor was the first floor and the 3rd floor was the 2nd floor.

The house originally had two floors, but an owner requested to add the lowest floor in 2000, according to Moscow city permits. Built into a hillside, the house has one exterior door on each floor.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

 

[al66pine]

Cliffhanger?

.... a Edit: Just to add quickly. I remember one time headed home from a bar about 10 minutes away from my home. It was me and two friends. A car about 200 yards ahead of us took off like airplane (all you saw were the taillights) and disappeared into the night, around a bend of 95. we were the first to pull over to help them. the car was upside down with the radio blaring and the wheels still spinning. the driver was in his seat, with his seat belt still on fully conscious. And couldn't stop screaming "my cousin! my cousin!"as he was looking towards an empty passenger seat.

we unbuckled him and against our advisement he joined two of us while we started to look around the dark area filled with bushes and tall grass, aside of a tall fence separating 95 from a national brand furniture store.

our 3rd friend froze in complete panic once we all realized the cousin was either somewhere out there in this area or had fell into the highway. and we had no clue what condition he was in or what we might see. the reality of what he might find literally left him in complete shock and panic and he did not want to look. and this was a complete stranger.

so i find myself empathizing with DM .MOO

snipped for focus
@schooling What a disturbing experience.
Don't leave us hanging.
Did you & your friend locate the driver's cousin?

 

[Tealgrove]

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

Oh, I think DM is going to be put through the wringer by the Defence. They need to discredit her testimony and they’re going to come after her hard.

As for BF, she hasn’t got much to say so as far as we currently know, she saw nothing and heard nothing, unless LE is holding back something.

It will be interesting to see if the Prosecution asks DM why she didn’t call LE so much sooner. If they don’t open that door the the Defence can’t go down that road to discredit her.

DM is going to have a rough go. I hope they do a lot of trial prep with her.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Oh, I think DM is going to be put through the wringer by the Defence. They need to discredit her testimony and they’re going to come after her hard.

As for BF, she hasn’t got much to say so as far as we currently know, she saw nothing and heard nothing, unless LE is holding back something.

It will be interesting to see if the Prosecution asks DM why she didn’t call LE so much sooner. If they don’t open that door the the Defence can’t go down that road to discredit her.

DM is going to have a rough go. I hope they do a lot of trial prep with her.

MOO

MOO AT will develop a SODDI theory, in which the survivors will be overtly or covertly be implicated.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO AT will develop a SODDI theory, in which the survivors will be overtly or covertly be implicated.

Of course the Defense will often throw out something, even though they are not required to by law. Perhaps they'll say nothing about who? If they go after the survivors it will be a huge mistake IMO. Juries do not take kindly to the harassment of innocent victims/survivors IMO, they'll be even more sympathetic after the details of the gruesome crime are revealed.

I think the State has a rare slam dunk case here I truly do, and BK is going away for the remainder of this life. AT & CO. are just covering all the bases at this point. I mean the best they had at an alibi is that BK was out 'driving around' that very night.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

Something I'm very curious about in regards to the survivors is whether or not BK ever had any kind of online contact with either of them, before or after the attacks. Even if under the guise of a fake persona. If he had managed to befriend any of the girls who lived in that house, it could have been an avenue to gain knowledge of their habits. JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

it seems obvious to me that students get up late on Sunday.
A party house, noisy Saturday night? Dont be a wuss it's fine.

Absolutely the mentality, roommates would be super annoyed if a newbie called LE if it had even crossed her mind something nefarious was going on.

I believe DM thought it may have been a hookup with one of the girls upstairs personally. Perfectly normal for that to happen after a night out on the town and drunk dialing, so please do not think I am disparaging Maddie or Kaylee in any way. I'm just trying to explain how a person's mind would not even consider a murderous rampage going on.

MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

Absolutely the mentality, roommates would be super annoyed if a newbie called LE if it had even crossed her mind something nefarious was going on.

I believe DM thought it may have been a hookup with one of the girls upstairs personally. Perfectly normal for that to happen after a night out on the town and drunk dialing, so please do not think I am disparaging Maddie or Kaylee in any way. I'm just trying to explain how a person's mind would not even consider a murderous rampage going on.

MOO

I think it's also important to remember that it doesn't appear that blood-curdling screams were ringing throughout the house, so was there really a clear indication that something awful was happening? It doesn't sound like there was. Now, if I shared a house with one other person or couple and some unknown person was walking down the hall at 4am, it would be easier to determine whether something bad was happening. At college, with kids living a freer lifestyle, I imagine roomies are much more likely to mind their own beeswax.

Something I had to wrestle with early on is why on earth didn't someone at least go check on anyone before they work up again at noon? Or at least do a quick walk through. I would still like to know, although at 60+ I think I would be much more likely to leave my safe little room than I would have at 20. It's entirely possible that the surviving girls talked themselves out of the notion that anything bad had happened and then totally freaked out when they awoke and found what they found. MOOooo

 

[Chloegirl]

I think it's also important to remember that it doesn't appear that blood-curdling screams were ringing throughout the house, so was there really a clear indication that something awful was happening? It doesn't sound like there was. Now, if I shared a house with one other person or couple and some unknown person was walking down the hall at 4am, it would be easier to determine whether something bad was happening. At college, with kids living a freer lifestyle, I imagine roomies are much more likely to mind their own beeswax.

Something I had to wrestle with early on is why on earth didn't someone at least go check on anyone before they work up again at noon? Or at least do a quick walk through. I would still like to know, although at 60+ I think I would be much more likely to leave my safe little room than I would have at 20. It's entirely possible that the surviving girls talked themselves out of the notion that anything bad had happened and then totally freaked out when they awoke and found what they found. MOOooo

I agree with that and if you are the junior roomies, there is definitely a pecking order. I think even the layers of the house suggest newbies on the bottom. You don't want to cause a stir you're also very much behaving like a 20 year old, being self-centered is sort of part of the deal. People don't get up, they text on their phone. Someone younger than me once told me that they have a hard time making phone calls because they haven't had to, which struck me as odd. But, here you go.

I think living in a house like this you have to put up with a lot of sleep interruptions. Quiet hours are more likely 3-9am. If you've made yourself clear about it, your roommates may not really grasp how to keep it down when they're tipsy. Living in a dorm has its downsides, sorority as well, a private home treated like partyland is just another. My instincts would have kicked in, but theirs did not, which does not make them culpable. JMOO

 

[x_files]

IDK. He took a pretty big knife for someone who was not planning to use it on anyone.

If he was just planning to rape someone, there are hundreds of potential victims he could have taken on that were alone. JMO

true.

 

[acutename]

I agree - also it would be risky to break in and sexually assault somebody in a house of many residents (especially when he probably knew at least one of the occupants was still awake due to the door dash delivery).

I don’t participate in this thread much but I do try to follow it as much as possible - can I just say the work that some of you have done in this thread has been so informative and outstanding.

I hope the families get justice soon.

I think he had some fixation with the house or with one of the occupants esp. if he drove by the area repeatedly. Not sure if LE found internet activity that would show this.

 

[acutename]

Yes, the survivors are victims and will have to live with the actions of BK for the rest of their life. Survivors guilt and PTSD are just a couple of things that come to mind.

Also, they've been blasted and slandered all over the internet. What these girls, especially DM, are continuing to go through is unthinkable. I think the Defense will need to walk a very tight line in questioning them. Heavy handed and accusatory lines of questioning are going to backfire on them in a big way IMO.

I don't know why people can't understand the actions of DM, unless they've never lived in off campus housing. What DM did was perfectly normal and exactly what I would have done in the exact same circumstances. No way did her mind ever consider there was a homicidal maniac in their house killing her roommates. It just wouldn't even enter the brain.

I feel so bad for her and BF and hope this case moves forward and they slap BK in a cell for the rest of his miserable days so they can begin to get on with their lives. You know they have got to be terrified of having to testify and seeing BK in Court. I have nothing but sympathy for them, BK is the one that brought this carnage and mayhem to their college home, not anything DM or BF did.

MOO

I think if you are living in a house like this you do not want to call LE because you do not want to "get the house in trouble"- noise complaints, previous alleged under age drinking ... you do not want LE in the house in general. Early morning, various people around, noises.... that has probably happened before and these survivors were out too and groggy so....

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I always wondered if BK originally planned to B&E and sexually assault a victim, then leave undetected versus murdering her and the others.
Perhaps she ripped his mask off and recognized him or he flew into a rage.
Also, if there were other unsolved rapes during that time. B&E with sexual assaults never solved.

I’ve wondered this same thing, if he’s so “criminally smart”, how in world can expect to sexually assault without leaving any any dna. It seems that dna hard to control as it seems to shed constantly in hair, saliva, sweat, skin cells, transfer from other surfaces into your clothes and easier every day to link to perpetrator. Even with gloves, total body suit, or wet suit over another. Unless his idea was to humiliate or hurt.

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

Thinking seeing masked man leaving house would invoke different emotions from masked man entering house alone.
Also
Would think that housemates give each other privacy, say if a man walked a housemate home after night out, and left house you would NOT expect to get housemate calling 911.
I think we will hear a lot of reasons why persons might be so tired which are not party related. Perhaps person did big 10k run the day before, or studied all night for an exam or finish a paper then went out to celebrate and looking forward to sleeping in late late late.
They will all be able to say where they were, with whom and who were texting for every minute of day til asleep. Sleeping late because house so quiet. (I’m one for thinking dog is like mine, when stressed, stays very still and quiet for days around fireworks celebrations, thunder. Doesn’t want to leave the house, eat or pee.)

BK going to rely on his big fat ZERO alibi. Zero life for days up to & after his crimes. (Doing nothing other than changing his car’s registration and showering without a shower curtain and other not quite right stuff. )

 

[acutename]

I’ve wondered this same thing, if he’s so “criminally smart”, how in world can expect to sexually assault without leaving any any dna. It seems that dna hard to control as it seems to shed constantly in hair, saliva, sweat, skin cells, transfer from other surfaces into your clothes and easier every day to link to perpetrator. Even with gloves, total body suit, or wet suit over another. Unless his idea was to humiliate or hurt.

Thinking seeing masked man leaving house would invoke different emotions from masked man entering house alone.
Also
Would think that housemates give each other privacy, say if a man walked a housemate home after night out, and left house you would NOT expect to get housemate calling 911.
I think we will hear a lot of reasons why persons might be so tired which are not party related. Perhaps person did big 10k run the day before, or studied all night for an exam or finish a paper then went out to celebrate and looking forward to sleeping in late late late.
They will all be able to say where they were, with whom and who were texting for every minute of day til asleep. Sleeping late because house so quiet. (I’m one for thinking dog is like mine, when stressed, stays very still and quiet for days around fireworks celebrations, thunder. Doesn’t want to leave the house, eat or pee.)

BK going to rely on his big fat ZERO alibi. Zero life for days up to & after his crimes. (Doing nothing other than changing his car’s registration and showering without a shower curtain and other not quite right stuff. )

his obsessive car cleaning and trash separation looks crazy suspicious IMO. Unless 10 people can say he was always obsessive and always did that since he was 8 yrs old, a jury will find that inexplicable IMO. And even if he has been doing it forever, it will not help him seem innocent, IMO.

 

[Betty P]

I’ve wondered this same thing, if he’s so “criminally smart”, how in world can expect to sexually assault without leaving any any dna. It seems that dna hard to control as it seems to shed constantly in hair, saliva, sweat, skin cells, transfer from other surfaces into your clothes and easier every day to link to perpetrator. Even with gloves, total body suit, or wet suit over another. Unless his idea was to humiliate or hurt.

Thinking seeing masked man leaving house would invoke different emotions from masked man entering house alone.
Also
Would think that housemates give each other privacy, say if a man walked a housemate home after night out, and left house you would NOT expect to get housemate calling 911.
I think we will hear a lot of reasons why persons might be so tired which are not party related. Perhaps person did big 10k run the day before, or studied all night for an exam or finish a paper then went out to celebrate and looking forward to sleeping in late late late.
They will all be able to say where they were, with whom and who were texting for every minute of day til asleep. Sleeping late because house so quiet. (I’m one for thinking dog is like mine, when stressed, stays very still and quiet for days around fireworks celebrations, thunder. Doesn’t want to leave the house, eat or pee.)

BK going to rely on his big fat ZERO alibi. Zero life for days up to & after his crimes. (Doing nothing other than changing his car’s registration and showering without a shower curtain and other not quite right stuff. )

Having recently witnessed a very traumatic, life threatening event, the responses of the surviving roommate who saw BK were fairly typical. They probably thought he might have come back in the house or would be returning soon. Some victims have stayed hidden for hours or longer before leaving to get help.

• During the event, your brain sometimes helps you rationalize traumatic things you're hearing or seeing. It's like denial. I could think, plan, protect myself, but it took me a minute (seconds?) to realize I was in danger.
• For quite a while AFTER the trauma, your brain doesn't work right:
  • Perception is off, concentration is poor, thoughts are jumbled
  • Sense of time passing is distorted; you can sit and stare at a wall for 15 minutes and think it was just for a minute or so
  • You zone out in the middle of a conversation, forget that you're talking to someone or forget what you just said
  • Your brain is on alert, a lot the first few days
  • I don't know how witnesses can recall the near exact time they saw or heard something. I'm sure many do, but I had to reconstruct the time of events by looking at my cell phone, texts, calls, etc.

 

[Justice101]

I do think there are a few hurdles for the survivors during the cross examination.

Why didn't DM call 911 or at least call out to roomies and check on them? I think she will be questioned about that.

They will ask 'did you often see masked men in all black coming down the stairs at 4 am?' That didn't worry you? '

The other hurdle MIGHT be about the early morning texts between the 2 survivors---if the reports are true. Again, same question will probably come up---why didn't they check on roommates or call 911 earlier?

I think they probably have ample explanations---however the defensive is making hay and amplifying the doubts and concerns. JMO

I still think the prosecution will still call DM if not just for the story of the noises and the bushy eye brows and body style.

Yes, the defense could have some good cross examination of her, but her being truthful as to being "unsure", "tipsy", "tired", "confused" or whatever... that the jury will certainly understand that.

The not calling until the next morning should be okay... after all, DM did not see a knife, blood or anything else that would have told her she was looking at a man that just murdered her roommates. She only saw a stranger with a mask walk by her room. if she didn't go back to sleep until 4:30AM, it is understandable for her not to wake up until Noon the next day.

Just because she can't positively identify him (as happens in many cases), she can give a general description.


We will see.


I think there will be a mountain of small circumstantial evidence at the trial... but also a large dose of the DNA that will be critical.