4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[ilovewings]

@alcaprari23

Judge expressed doubt that the Idaho Supreme Court would find any different opinion over the grand jury process than what he has found after hearing the arguments about the standard of proof (due process vs. probable cause).

4:25 PM · Jan 26, 2024


Judge says he is very concerned about delaying a trial. Says sending it to the Idaho Supreme Court would almost certainly cause delay, saying it could add another year."Even if the supreme court takes up this appeal...if I deny it, the supreme court can still pick up the appeal. It's up to them. But they do look at what the district judge's opinion, may have some bearing on that. I hope so. But they can still overturn the orders

Delete

 

[arielilane]

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

Defense says they don't get the luxury of focusing solely on the case since they also have to begin thinking and planning about the sentencing phase if Kohberger is convicted, which of course, is the death penalty.Defense basically laying out all of the issues they have in front of them which affect timeliness of their preparation.


4:38 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

As Attorney Taylor is speaking, judge's facial expression is priceless. jmo

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

There is 51 terabytes of information floating out there that both sides have to go through, which is hours and hours of work.Defense now discussing the media coverage and it's impact. Says witnesses don't want to cover this trial because of what they have heard or because of conflicts of interest because these witnesses have already discussed the trial with the media.Says there could be more than 400 witnesses on their list to contact, but have spoken to less than 10% of them.


4:40 PM · Jan 26, 2024

Defense says it is having trouble getting documents or documents are coming back missing. Records have yet to be obtained from both sides. Experts still need to be hired. And when it comes to discovery, Anne Taylor says there is continued delays in getting it into their hands. Says they are up to their 11th request for discovery. Does not accuse the state of withholding discovery, but speaks to the larger point about how much there really is.


4:42 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

Defense says there is a really important video that it only received a portion of. They are still waiting for the rest of it to come from the State. But there's not even an estimated date that defense would get it. This is just one example of the delays in discovery. Asks for deadline to be established for discovery.


4:45 PM · Jan 26, 2024


"A few months from now is not a sufficient amount of time... there is no possible way that I would be effective in my investigation, in my presentation to the jury..."On 1/4/24, Defense received 9,000 tips that came into law enforcement shortly after the crime was committed. Using this as an example of the legwork that would be required of her before a trial could begin.


4:47 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

"It's impossible for us to do it. Our team constantly meets, we constantly work...Bryan is our priority, but we will not be ready in June 2024."


4:48 PM · Jan 26, 2024


Judge now speaking: "Do you need a whole year? Can I help everybody by having tighter deadlines? Make things happen faster so we can get this done sooner?"Defense say if the State can ensure that they have everything they have, then she will still need a period of time to review it all. Having a deadline for discovery and expert disclosures helps, but she still has concerns over discovery that hasn't even been made available yet.


4:52 PM · Jan 26, 2024

Defense says she could be ready by March 2025 if Judge can make guarantees about deadlines for discovery. But says that is best case scenario without running into problems and delays with materials and expert witnesses. Says she is even nervous saying she will be ready by Summer 2025.


4:53 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[ilovewings]

Delay delay delay

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

Judge says he only wants to have one trial so it doesn't come back. Says he is relying on the counsel to get things ready for trial. Prosecutor Thompson now says that Anne Taylor is not lying about the amount of evidence to comb through and delays with the agencies to get their information together. Says if a trial is not ready by 2024, then it must be ready by Summer 2025 given the aforementioned problems with University scheduling. Sounds like he is conceding to a Summer 2025 trial.


4:55 PM · Jan 26, 2024

About a possible change of venue, from Pros. Thompson: "This case has national, if not international, attention...I don't think a change of venue will solve any of these problems. And the State's position on venue is that the case should be held here. It's a Latah County Case. We believe we could select fair jurors... We at least owe Latah County, the people of Latah County, to seat a jury here first."


4:57 PM · Jan 26, 2024


Thompson: "I am still concerned about the victims and their families. They have suffered for over a year with a lot of uncertainty. And that is painful... they need some closure in a timely fashion."


4:59 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

Judge says he is upset. Wants to be closer than where they are with discovery, speeding it up, if possible. Wants to do a trial sooner rather than later. Thinks maybe March 2025 is fair. But wants to think about it more. Sounds like he is leaning towards a written decision on scheduling.


5:00 PM · Jan 26, 2024


Doesn't want to let it hang for too long. But it is hard for the Judge to set something in 2025 even though it may be the reality for everyone. Says he knows there are other issues that need to be addressed and more motions to come, particularly about the death penalty. Judge: "We don't want to do this twice... no matter what happens, if he is convicted, it is going to be appeal, appeal, appeal. And that's also a challenge. My heart goes out to the victims. I can't even imagine the pain, the grief because you can't really move forward with your life with this hanging over your head. So I'm sorry. We'll see."


5:02 PM · Jan 26, 2024



Judge will issue a written decision on schedule soon. Judge asks if that concludes everything that needed to be talked about today? Both sides agree. Court is adjourned.


5:03 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

#BryanKohberger Hearing

Long line to get into today's hearing in Moscow, ID. In about 10 minutes, the second of two hearings will begin, which should include the judge and legal teams deciding an official start date for the criminal trial to begin.

The first hearing today was off-limits to the public and media. The defense was asking the judge to re-consider his decision to deny their motion to toss out the grand jury indictment. Because the hearing discussed evidence of the crime, it was kept secret behind closed doors.

The Goncalves family enters the Latah County Courthouse.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750987192875499773

This is the first hearing that will be livestreamed from the Judge's YouTube page for the public to watch. You can view our broadcast here to follow along.

Motion to dismiss Kohberger charges denied, no trial date set

Kohberger’s team wants filings related to the motion to dismiss unsealed.

www.newsnationnow.com

I, too, am frantically refreshing the Judge's livestream. I don't think it has started yet. I will let you know when I get it up and running.

Ok, my livestream is up and running. We are officially on the record.

#BryanKohberger is in the courtroom and is wearing a suit and tie. Judge John Judge also has a camera trained on him. Ashley Jennings and Elisa Massoth also have cameras on them.Judge begins describing the first hearing, which he says is secret due to it's discussion on grand jury proceedings and evidence. Judge plugs his YouTube page, which is handling the livestream from here on out.

Judge says he is addressing reconsideration of the order denying the motion to dismiss indictment. That order is focused on the defense's claim of inaccurate instructions to the grand jury. Also to be discussed is a potential appeal to that decision, which would stay the case.

Defense is going first. Asking the court to give it's blessing to take up the issue to the Idaho Supreme Court. The Idaho Supreme Court has a rule that lays out that this is only to be done in rare circumstances.

Defense's argument is that in order for this case to be dismissed, the indictment must be invalid. They want to explore that.Defense says without permission to appeal, they may never get a good answer. That is important to #BryanKohberger since it would dictate if he goes to trial.

Big issue: How it might affect the timeliness of an actual criminal trial. Defense believes if a trial is scheduled, an appeal at this point won't disturb that potential timeline. Defense says this isn't meaning to achieve a delay, but to make sure Bryan Kohberger is getting due process through every step of the case and no stone is left unturned.

Prosecution will now argue. Mentions past case law, which shows that probable cause being the standard of proof for a grand jury. Says defense does not made a solid argument that an appeal won't affect the timeline that's being set up in the trial court. Believes that it would reset the case entirely and pros. believes this case needs to get to trial ASAP.

Now discussing the possibility of a stay of proceedings, which would essentially hit the pause button on the case until the appeal process is complete. Prosecution says the court would lose its power and authority of the case while the appeal process is undergoing, which would cause significant delays.

There are still major hurdles ahead for both sides in terms of discovery and expert testimony. All of those issues couldn't be resolved while an appeal process is happening.

Prosecution says victims and their families have a constitutional right to speedy justice. Says the trial court should not tolerate any delays over arguments the defense finds interesting.Defense's rebuttal: They believe it's worth a second-glance from a higher court. Says they are not running from anything or anybody and they just want to make sure that the case proceedings are done correctly. Defense again asks for permission to get the Idaho Supreme Court's opinion on the grand jury process.

Judge expressed doubt that the Idaho Supreme Court would find any different opinion over the grand jury process than what he has found after hearing the arguments about the standard of proof (due process vs. probable cause).

Judge says he is very concerned about delaying a trial. Says sending it to the Idaho Supreme Court would almost certainly cause delay, saying it could add another year. "Even if the supreme court takes up this appeal...if I deny it, the supreme court can still pick up the appeal. It's up to them. But they do look at what the district judge's opinion, may have some bearing on that. I hope so. But they can still overturn the orders of this court…”

Reading case law: "An appeal must be exceptional...in my opinion, I do not find that the criteria is satisfied for permissive appeal...overall it is settled as far as I am concerned and there is no difference in opinion that I am aware of." "I am denying the permission for appeal.”

We are now moving onto the scheduling conference.Bill Thompson speaking now. Addressing an allegation the defense made that the "state is trying to kill someone." Thompson takes offense to that, and says that he is fulfil his responsibilities under the law, and a trial jury will make the final decision of Kohberger's fate.

Thompson discusses competing interests: Speedy trial, stakes, victim's/family needs. Says they need to move forward to trial in a productive fashion.Thompson says he proposed Summer 2024 for trial, and he believes they can be prepared by then. Mentions reasons why summer is best: Public School/UI both out for the summer. Says it's not fair to students, school district & media. Also mentions lodging difficulties that could exist if the trial occurs while UI is in session. Says trial will involve many out-of-town witnesses who will need to have a place to stay.

Defense says they do not believe a Summer 2024 trial is realistic in any way. Instead suggests Summer 2025. Defense says they plan to file a motion for a change of venue, meaning the trial would not take place in Latah County. That would be big news because the courtroom is rather small here and would involve transporting


Defense does not believe this is a six-week trial, instead suggests a 12-15 week trial given the complicated nature of the evidence. Defense says there are a lot of things that still need to be done. Says they have been active in this case and seeking discovery since the day they were assigned.


Defense says they don't get the luxury of focusing solely on the case since they also have to begin thinking and planning about the sentencing phase if Kohberger is convicted, which of course, is the death penalty.Defense basically laying out all of the issues they have in front of them which affect timeliness of their preparation.


There is 51 terabytes of information floating out there that both sides have to go through, which is hours and hours of work.Defense now discussing the media coverage and it's impact. Says witnesses don't want to cover this trial because of what they have heard or because of conflicts of interest because these witnesses have already discussed the trial with the media.Says there could be more than 400 witnesses on their list to contact, but have spoken to less than 10% of them.


Defense says it is having trouble getting documents or documents are coming back missing. Records have yet to be obtained from both sides. Experts still need to be hired. And when it comes to discovery, Anne Taylor says there is continued delays in getting it into their hands. Says they are up to their 11th request for discovery. Does not accuse the state of withholding discovery, but speaks to the larger point about how much there really is.

Defense says there is a really important video that it only received a portion of. They are still waiting for the rest of it to come from the State. But there's not even an estimated date that defense would get it. This is just one example of the delays in discovery. Asks for deadline to be established for discovery.


"A few months from now is not a sufficient amount of time... there is no possible way that I would be effective in my investigation, in my presentation to the jury..."On 1/4/24, Defense received 9,000 tips that came into law enforcement shortly after the crime was committed. Using this as an example of the legwork that would be required of her before a trial could begin.
"It's impossible for us to do it. Our team constantly meets, we constantly work...Bryan is our priority, but we will not be ready in June 2024.”


Judge now speaking: "Do you need a whole year? Can I help everybody by having tighter deadlines? Make things happen faster so we can get this done sooner?"Defense say if the State can ensure that they have everything they have, then she will still need a period of time to review it all. Having a deadline for discovery and expert disclosures helps, but she still has concerns over discovery that hasn't even been made available yet.

Defense says she could be ready by March 2025 if Judge can make guarantees about deadlines for discovery. But says that is best case scenario without running into problems and delays with materials and expert witnesses. Says she is even nervous saying she will be ready by Summer 2025.

Judge says he only wants to have one trial so it doesn't come back. Says he is relying on the counsel to get things ready for trial. Prosecutor Thompson now says that Anne Taylor is not lying about the amount of evidence to comb through and delays with the agencies to get their information together. Says if a trial is not ready by 2024, then it must be ready by Summer 2025 given the aforementioned problems with University scheduling. Sounds like he is conceding to a Summer 2025 trial.

About a possible change of venue, from Pros. Thompson: "This case has national, if not international, attention...I don't think a change of venue will solve any of these problems. And the State's position on venue is that the case should be held here. It's a Latah County Case. We believe we could select fair jurors... We at least owe Latah County, the people of Latah County, to seat a jury here first.”

Thompson: "I am still concerned about the victims and their families. They have suffered for over a year with a lot of uncertainty. And that is painful... they need some closure in a timely fashion.”


Judge says he is upset. Wants to be closer than where they are with discovery, speeding it up, if possible. Wants to do a trial sooner rather than later. Thinks maybe March 2025 is fair. But wants to think about it more. Sounds like he is leaning towards a written decision on scheduling.

Doesn't want to let it hang for too long. But it is hard for the Judge to set something in 2025 even though it may be the reality for everyone. Says he knows there are other issues that need to be addressed and more motions to come, particularly about the death penalty. Judge: "We don't want to do this twice... no matter what happens, if he is convicted, it is going to be appeal, appeal, appeal. And that's also a challenge. My heart goes out to the victims. I can't even imagine the pain, the grief because you can't really move forward with your life with this hanging over your head. So I'm sorry. We'll see.”


Judge will issue a written decision on schedule soon. Judge asks if that concludes everything that needed to be talked about today? Both sides agree. Court is adjourned.

https://twitter.com/alcaprari23

 

[iamshadow21]

From the video

Concerning the trash can: Kaylee's mom: "it did not appear to have been gone through."

I am not an investigator, however, why would they not preserve it and take the whole trash can with them? moo

Because Kaylee's room wasn't part of the crime scene? Kaylee and Maddie were in Maddie's room, and, as far as we know, the dog was in Kaylee's room and the perpetrator never entered it.

MOO

 

[arielilane]

@BrianEntin

Bryan Kohberger hearing over.
Main takeaways:
No trial date set.
Defense is proposing 2025.
Defense seems to want trial moved, prosecutor wants it to stay in Latah County.
Both sides agree there is a lot of work still to be done regarding discovery, records, etc.


5:03 PM · Jan 26, 2024

 

[technicallymissing]

@BrianEntin

Bryan Kohberger hearing over.
Main takeaways:
No trial date set.
Defense is proposing 2025.
Defense seems to want trial moved, prosecutor wants it to stay in Latah County.
Both sides agree there is a lot of work still to be done regarding discovery, records, etc.


5:03 PM · Jan 26, 2024

Thank you for posting all of these so quickly @arielilane, for those of us who can’t watch right now and don’t have Twitter. Sounds like slim to no hope for a 2024 trial, then.
While also following the mess that is the Delphi case at the moment I am heartened to hear Judge² repeatedly acknowledge how long the victims’ families have been waiting for justice already and express how important he feels it is to keep things moving for their sake.

 

[minazoe]

nice try Bryan, see you this summer.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://x.com/angenette5/status/1751003113811595278?s=61&t=Vp-AZ81ShrhzLNqqCFHAgA

 

[Swansee]

Thank you @arielilane for your recaps and links!
I just watched the hearing twice. I like the court's camera angles and setup. Well done JJJ!

AT did drop smome notable hints.
- She doesn't have a certain video in full . This rings a bell for me, I think I read something a few months ago about some kind of medical type video being requested? There was speculation as to whether this could be autopsies.
- she doesn't have the full CAST data. She acknowledged the prosecution doesn't have it either and this will require cooperation from a certain agency.
-Defense seems to run into a problem of people not wanting to talk to them, be it witnesses or experts.
I appreciated that there seemed to be less animosity between Thompson and Taylor than there was at a prior hearing. At this point it really seems clear that the prosecution isn't intentionally withholding anything, just that the defense is requesting things that third parties havent handed over.
I am frustrated that it could be 2025, and I'm sure the families are even more. I hope not but it sure seems to be taking that route!

 

[minazoe]

2025? wow.

 

[schooling]

Thank you @arielilane for your recaps and links!
I just watched the hearing twice. I like the court's camera angles and setup. Well done JJJ!

AT did drop smome notable hints.
- She doesn't have a certain video in full . This rings a bell for me, I think I read something a few months ago about some kind of medical type video being requested? There was speculation as to whether this could be autopsies.
- she doesn't have the full CAST data. She acknowledged the prosecution doesn't have it either and this will require cooperation from a certain agency.
-Defense seems to run into a problem of people not wanting to talk to them, be it witnesses or experts.
I appreciated that there seemed to be less animosity between Thompson and Taylor than there was at a prior hearing. At this point it really seems clear that the prosecution isn't intentionally withholding anything, just that the defense is requesting things that third parties havent handed over.
I am frustrated that it could be 2025, and I'm sure the families are even more. I hope not but it sure seems to be taking that route!

At this point it feels like January 2025 would be a big win.

Another 12 - 18 months of speculation here we come!

 

[arielilane]

Because Kaylee's room wasn't part of the crime scene? Kaylee and Maddie were in Maddie's room, and, as far as we know, the dog was in Kaylee's room and the perpetrator never entered it.

MOO

They also claim they failed to go through evidence including the trash can that was in the room where Kaylee was stabbed.

She was discovered sitting up against the wall, they said.

The parents also said they are yet to receive a digital copy of her phone records - something they have been asking for for over a year.

'We are just left in limbo... it's like you're fighting with somebody who just doesn't care,' Steve said of the police investigation.

Kristi said the trash can that was turned over to them was full and did not appear to have been searched.

'We opened it, there was like a squeezy apple sauce thing that you would give a toddler. It did not appear to have been gone through.'


Kaylee Goncalves' parents say cops didn't go through trash can

EST, 26 January 2024