7.0 Earthquake Hits Haiti Hospital Collapses

[gitana1]

Thank you for posting that article. I just found the discussion here. I've been following this since the moment it hit the news. I've donated, as has my immediate family members and I have asked everyone that I come into contact with (mostly at the college that I attend) to denote. Many have. My question is this; like this article, there are others caring for groups of children and/or the injured (e.g,. the two young ladies with the orphanage there caring for 25+ children who cannot get an adequate food supply for 25 children because of rationing) who are not able to get the supplies needed in order to continue providing this care; How, if possible, can we help these individuals directly? Any ideas? Thank you.

My heart is in Haiti -

Nomoresorrow:
With the whole city in ruin, I think it would be very hard to get to specific people to get aid to them. However, perhaps contacting the reporters who did the sotries directly and asking if supplies can be delivered might work. I am so sad. I hope this situation improves and fast.

 

[feddup]

http://www.lynn.edu/alert

4 young women are still missing, the families are holding a press conference tonight.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Respectfully snipped for space by me:

You know, I really do appreciate your post. I do not think you are trying to be unfair. You have made some excellent points and I seriously agree that just dumping money on a problem is not necessarily an answer.

But, as to your post about Haitians complaining about their people back home and why they cannot just bring their relatives here, well, we have this thing called the immigration process. We only allow a certain number of Haitians in, that's why many are here illegally. Haitian immigrants are very lucky to be here and cannot simply bring their family to the U.S.

By the way, according to statistics, Haitian immigrants do not just send a bit of money back home. They send $900 MILLION a year. And that makes up a quarter of Haiti's GDP. That's freaking HUGE! http://www.maykuth.com/stories/haiti708.htm

I find the Haitian people to be strong family people and very resilient, as a whole. I am leery about Americans getting a picture that they are all ruthless, corrupt thugs. But, you are 100% right about teaching them to fish. We cannot save every country yet research shows that aid designed to help people in other countries support themselves is the only kind with long-term, positive effect. Much of our aid to many countries, such as in Africa, has effected almost no change there. Some of it is taken by corrupt forces. Its a mess.

But, that is not to say that emergency aid is not important and seriously helpful. That's a differnet thing altogether and I think we should all do as much as we can to prevent further devastation in Haiti now.

Also, there are some great long-term projects in third world countries that work. We need to educate and provide the tools to empower the empoverished. Dumping money at them on a regular basis is like dumping it in the toilet. So, I see your point. However, right now we are talking about something different. Emergency Aid. What we give today will help if given to the right agency. We can talk about long-term aid and/or "nation building" later.

1st bbm - That' a lot of money. What do the Haitian's do with the money they receive I wonder? It's a fair question. Between all the foreign aid the country receives and the money being sent in by their relatives how come they are reportedly living on $1.00 a day?

A reporter stated yesterday that the Haitian mindset is that they just want to live in organized poverty. Huh?
Sounds like a welfare state to me.

Aside from being hit by a natural disaster, there comes a time when people need to learn to stand on their own two feet, sink or swim, etc. I know it's a complicated issue and a person is hindered if their environment does not support their progress.

As we know, the US was founded for the purpose of people having freedom within the laws, the opportunity to progress as far as their individual capability, effort and talent allows. In recent times, I sense there's a feeling of resentment in the air about the idea regarding freedom when people are successful. Financial constraints/burdens (due to everyone else's needs) are making it harder for one to excel. If a child is born with a silver spoon in his mouth, it is because someone before him paved his way (if he turns out capable enough to expand on his good fortune). In the US nobody should dictate to anybody else what they should or shouldn't give imo. Be happy if someone is successful at taking care of their own so as not to become your burden. As we can see, many very wealthy individuals are generous beyond what most of us will ever be capable of earning let alone give away. If a wealthy individual is greedy, that's their choice imo.

What I feel strongly about though is the tolerance of corruption, trickery or holding another down due to specific people/group greed, control or threats. That is wrong and causes much harm within societies. Whenever you have a group of individuals and one or two are not willing to do their share to accomplish the task at hand, a problem emerges. Every situation can be broken down and examined on a small scale and then be applied on a larger scale in order to get the big picture. Sometimes people get what they get because they deserve nothing more due to their own unwillingness to contribute in the first place.

When others point a finger at the US, I become defensive. I feel we want to help other countries and do so continually. When we are criticized, I want to retreat. Good thing I'm not in charge. We owe no one really. That said, generosity is good.

It troubles me when people tear down prosperity. What do they want? For us to become like Haiti and be unable to help anybody let alone ourselves.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Songline,I love your posts and agree with most,but I don't believe you can compare the US and Haiti. Who knows though,maybe we are on that track?
I absolutley agree that all this money that has been spent on Haiti(and other poor countries),is being used to line peoples pockets and people need to be very careful who they give money to,but despite all the world's efforts ,if there is not proper leadership in Haiti,willing to truelly fight for the people,they may survive this crisis,but it will occur again. If any good can come out of this at all,it might be that the eyes of the world are on this poor country,and maybe they will end up a better place.
I remember a story my friend's father told me years ago and it has made me leery of giving to charities. Even if they have the best intentions,sometimes the government intentionally holds down its people. He was a soldier in Korea. There were boats of food for the starving people and the Korean government would not allow then to be unloaded. Apparently this went on for weeks until finally the food rotted. He remembered seeing big bags of rice being cut open and tossed into the water,as people were literally starving to death. To this day it sickens me to think of that.

Yesterday I saw an interview with two young American sisters from PA. They are running an orphanage in Haiti and have over thirty young children in their charge. They have no shelter at the moment and their food/water is being rationed. The reporter asked them if they told the authorities that they look after all these children and they replied "they don't care." They fear that their neighbors, who they have lived peacefully with for three years, know that they have some supplies and will begin stealing from them as someone was trying to scale the wall into their yard.

My prayers go out to them. I wish there was some way to get them a safe shelter and assure that they have the food and water they need to nourish themselves and the children.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Haiti does not sit on the island of Dominica. Dominica is another island, much further south in the Carribbean. Haiti and the Dominican Republic sit on the island of Hispaniola.

The UN peacekeeping force prior to the earthquake was 9,000, not 90,000.

The Haitian people are not "uncivilized", voodoo-practicing, machete wielding thugs. (And when did how many TV sets a nation has become the measurement of a "civilized" vs. an "uncivilized" society???) The Haitians I've met when I visited are friendly, caring, loving human beings - just as most Americans are. The majority of Haitians are very, very poor. They are also very religious, with the majority practicing Roman Catholicism.

Are there thugs in Haiti? Of course. do they wield machetes? Well, since they can't afford to purchase the GUNS that our American thugs use, most likely.

Oh, and most Haitians speak at least three languages - Creole, French, and English.

How many languages does the average American speak?

I guess I just take umbrage at seeing the word "uncivilized" used to describe and dismiss a kind and loving people who have just suffered an unimaginable horror.

LOOK at what you are seeing in front of your eyes. People who are devastated, grief-stricken, crying, tired, hungry, homeless, without food and water. And the UN "peacekeepers" are GUARDING the stockpiled food and water supplies, awaiting more "security" so they can "distribute things in an orderly manner" and "make sure none of the supplies end up on the black market".

Oh, forgodsake. We, as American citizens, should be rising up and clamoring for ALL donated supplies to be distributed immediately! The BLACK market?? People are DYING, people have NO WATER and NO FOOD and someone "in charge" is worrying about orderly distribution and the black market???

 

[feddup]

I was reading this article as I wondered why the DR and Haiti have such a problem. The Dom Rep. used to be under Haitian rule. They now use the Haitians as cheap labour. Anyways at least they are helping.

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/lo...ic-first-country-to-support-Haiti-after-quake

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I heard a US missionary worker on one station and she spoke of the resilience of the Haitian people and how they are in fact,banding together to clear streets and recover people,but she is becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of coordination and says that the most directly hit area,most densley populated area,has not even been covered at all. Unfortunatley she is directing her frustration at the US. She sees the aid coming to the airport,but sees no coordinated efforts.
Although I understand she is speaking out of frustration,how is this the US's probem? Why are we in charge? Shouldn't the UN be in charge? I fear that this situation is going to escalate into something even worse,and its nobodys fault. The people are desperate, and desperate people do unthinkable things at times like this,but the US govt can not be blamed ,like Katrina. There is no existing infrastructure to begin with. Where is the Haitian President? I hear that he is in communication with Obama,but why isn't he showing himself and making an effort to calm his people?
I am so sad and scared for the whole island of Haiti.

We are in control of the Haitian Airport. Haiti has turned it over to the US military. Therefore we get the blame when things cannot be transported past the airport. The roads are so bad that we can't get aid out of the airport fast enough. The US Comfort should be arriving soon, its a 1000' person bed hospital. The president of Haiti was talking to his people, but with the limited resources, no television, no power, no place where his people can see/hear him talking, it makes it kind of pointless for him to try to calm his people, with what they see around them.

Its going to be like this for several days, weeks and months, its just going to take time, and patience's

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I just read the problem is that some of the Haitians are using machetes and killing folks. There is fighting and chaos. No one can guarantee the safety of anyone there to help. Even the military cannot guarantee the safety of the doctors and those passing out food.

I'm against our soldiers even being there.

Gitana, I know you are not going to agree, but 70 percent of the population of Haiti practices voodoo. In my estimation they are an evil people.

I said I contributed to Haiti thru taxes and I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have to give to the Palestinians thru taxes, they don't cancel each other, Obama is our President hes giving everything to our enemies. If it came down to it, Haiti would fight against us, no matter what help we provided. I know that it would be wrong to with hold help on that premise, but I don't want Americans to be sacrificed or our country to be bankrupted because of Haiti. People from Haiti will now be allowed to come to USA, put in Republican states and vote for democrats assuring Obama wins in 2012. If you think this won't happen, even now, Haitians that are here illegally are being let stay and many are criminals. The Haitians are blocking roadways with cadavers to protest aid being so slow, how arrogant is that? Everyone is working like dogs to get them help. If I was in charge and going into Haiti, seeing the roads blocked with dead people, I would turn around and let them handle it themselves. Glad I'm not in charge. No one should be forced to risk their lives for this people, and I'm talking about our military.

Look on the celebrity thing, they all do some things for political favor or newsevents, but no one is really helping the American elderly and children. How many children in the USA didn't have a gift for Christmas? I don't know, but I think it was alot. How many didn't have Christmas dinner? I'm just tired of putting all our resources somewhere else when our own people are doing without. Homes are being foreclosed and we are sending money to the Palestianians. Sorry you feel we should be supporting them, they are animals, and should leave where they are at. But , back to Haiti. Why don't they flea to the Domenican Republic? I guess its because the Dom. Rep has put up a security fence to block them because of their brutal ways. I'm sorry we cannot agree, but that is what a forum is for, expressing opinions.

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not focus on how "corrupt" the government is, or how "evil" these people are?? This is not time for politics. It is a time to get in and save as many people as we can. It's a time to help as many as we can.

Please lets not turn this into a political issue. There is too much at stake here, and it will not be very productive. If you want to talk politics, we have a political forum just for that purpose, lets keep it off this thread, Pretty please??

After all, no matter how "evil" or "corrupt" a country is, noone deserves what Haiti is going through right now!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yesterday I saw an interview with two young American sisters from PA. They are running an orphanage in Haiti and have over thirty young children in their charge. They have no shelter at the moment and their food/water is being rationed. The reporter asked them if they told the authorities that they look after all these children and they replied "they don't care." They fear that their neighbors, who they have lived peacefully with for three years, know that they have some supplies and will begin stealing from them as someone was trying to scale the wall into their yard.

My prayers go out to them. I wish there was some way to get them a safe shelter and assure that they have the food and water they need to nourish themselves and the children.

Good news. I just heard on CNN and I quote, "After this story aired, Jamie and Aly McMurtrie received permission to fly the 150 children at the BRESMA orphanage to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania." Source: Associated Press

 

[Kymistry35]

And how can anyone compare a child not getting a toy for Christmas to the devastation these people are suffering right now? There are babies there who don't have food, water, or shelter! I don't give a damn about politics or voodoo or anything else, a child is a child and it is a travesty for any of them to be suffering.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not focus on how "corrupt" the government is, or how "evil" these people are?? This is not time for politics. It is a time to get in and save as many people as we can. It's a time to help as many as we can.

Please lets not turn this into a political issue. There is too much at stake here, and it will not be very productive. If you want to talk politics, we have a political forum just for that purpose, lets keep it off this thread, Pretty please??

After all, no matter how "evil" or "corrupt" a country is, noone deserves what Haiti is going through right now!

I understand your point. We were also discussing how America steps in to help others in times of despair but then gets blamed when/if things go wrong. I don't think anybody is saying we should not help the people of Haiti dig out from this earthquake.

Currently on CNN they are discussing the reasons for the holdup regarding supplying aid. There seems to be some restraints being placed upon systems from moving forward but no one is clear what they are or why. They just reiterated that the US is in charge of the airport traffic control but beyond that it is not clear who is in control. Communication remains a huge problem.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Good news. I just heard on CNN and I quote, "After this story aired, Jamie and Aly McMurtrie received permission to fly the 150 children at the BRESMA orphanage to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania." Source: Associated Press

This is incorrect info. They state on there facebook page that it was inaccurate information being posted, that as of yet they have no clearness to enter the US with the kids.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=253060986318&ref=ts

 

[EmMomma]

Bump.
SHAMROCK and EMMomma - I bumped this for you.

I gave through the Jewish World Services - also listed on the link below.

MOO
Habitat for humanity is great.
Doctors without boarders is great.
Feed my starving children is great.
This link will give you ratings of the top foundations:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1004

Thanks for this! :blowkiss:
Doctors without borders is a phenomenal organization, for sure!
And you can never go wrong w the Red Cross.
I'm thinking I'll donate a little here and there, when I am able.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This is incorrect info. They state on there facebook page that it was inaccurate information being posted, that as of yet they have no clearness to enter the US with the kids.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=253060986318&ref=ts

Why did CNN report this then? Do you think the arrangements are in the works?
I typed it just as it appeared on TV tonight after CNN aired a rerun of yesterday's program.

Also I saw an interview with Raymond Joseph, Haitian Ambassador to the UN
An American couple waiting to adopt their baby was allowed to ask him what they should do about the fact that they do not have access to the paperwork to complete their adoption (a lot of these children have designated families). He told them if they have copies of the paperwork they can send it to Washington DC and that they would be issued the Passport from there (usually it would have to be done in Haiti). Not to be negative but I couldn't help but to think "how long will that take" and/or "sounds good, but figure the odds". Not to mention, although these families have been building their files, I'm sure they are missing the final papers, etc. What a mess. These children have a healthy place to go NOW, parents who are willing to take care of them NOW - just let them unite and figure out the red tape later. These are babies for God's sake.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

i think arrangements are in the works, but nothing affirmative yet.

 

[songline]

Songline,I love your posts and agree with most,but I don't believe you can compare the US and Haiti. Who knows though,maybe we are on that track?
I absolutely agree that all this money that has been spent on Haiti(and other poor countries),is being used to line peoples pockets and people need to be very careful who they give money to,but despite all the world's efforts ,if there is not proper leadership in Haiti,willing to truly fight for the people,they may survive this crisis,but it will occur again. If any good can come out of this at all,it might be that the eyes of the world are on this poor country,and maybe they will end up a better place.
I remember a story my friend's father told me years ago and it has made me leery of giving to charities. Even if they have the best intentions,sometimes the government intentionally holds down its people. He was a soldier in Korea. There were boats of food for the starving people and the Korean government would not allow then to be unloaded. Apparently this went on for weeks until finally the food rotted. He remembered seeing big bags of rice being cut open and tossed into the water,as people were literally starving to death. To this day it sickens me to think of that.

thanks for the sweet compliment :blushing:
I agree with most of your post too. Non of that makes sense to me either,how they just let the people starve.:waitasec:
Governments and their agendas have nothing to do with any of the people.
but I do believe that if we just give to any org. we may be fooling ourselves. SO DO your homework.
In some ways I can compare us to the Haitians. While we are far more civilized and sophisticated.
The poor gets poorer while the Rich get richer. the Gov. does nothing but suck the people dry of their resources. LOOKS the SAME to me.
But what if Haiti does become self sustained as USA is. what happened with Katrina?
Well.... when a natural disaster happens Nobody is self sustained. we all have to pitch in and help the people because if we trust any government we are in deeper chit then we actually think.
We can not trust any government, anywhere, civil, westernized or other wise. They can be unaware of anything around them beside the meal they need that day. or they can have cutting edge technology a catastrophe of that magnitude makes us all the same.

Trusting government is a huge Blind spot. HUGE

 

[songline]

Thank you for posting that article. I just found the discussion here. I've been following this since the moment it hit the news. I've donated, as has my immediate family members and I have asked everyone that I come into contact with (mostly at the college that I attend) to denote. Many have. My question is this; like this article, there are others caring for groups of children and/or the injured (e.g,. the two young ladies with the orphanage there caring for 25+ children who cannot get an adequate food supply for 25 children because of rationing) who are not able to get the supplies needed in order to continue providing this care; How, if possible, can we help these individuals directly? Any ideas? Thank you.

My heart is in Haiti -

No answers, just a sad true story from a lady I met tonight.
The lady made many different kind of arrangements to bring supplies to an orphanage before the earth quake hit. I think it was this past November as she wanted to help the kids.
After all the papers were in order she went down with the shipment, and the shipment was not allowed to get to it's destination. Despite the fact that every t was crossed and every i was dotted.

WHY??? no body knows, all the papers were in order, why their government does what they do, or refusal
to help their people?
This woman has had no luck.
She did adopt a child from there and she wants to make sure that the other children are cared for but they have not been letting anything get to the orphanage; and that was prior to the catastrophe.
but it tells me of a mentality by those in power

SO whatever has been sent down to them may be confiscated by the government WHO KNOW?????

 

[songline]

Thanks for this! :blowkiss:
Doctors without borders is a phenomenal organization, for sure!
And you can never go wrong w the Red Cross. NOT SO :no:
I'm thinking I'll donate a little here and there, when I am able.

BBM- I will never agree - first hand experience with RC from 9/11

 

[songline]

1st bbm - That' a lot of money. What do the Haitian's do with the money they receive I wonder? It's a fair question. Between all the foreign aid the country receives and the money being sent in by their relatives how come they are reportedly living on $1.00 a day?

A reporter stated yesterday that the Haitian mindset is that they just want to live in organized poverty. Huh?
Sounds like a welfare state to me.

Aside from being hit by a natural disaster, there comes a time when people need to learn to stand on their own two feet, sink or swim, etc. I know it's a complicated issue and a person is hindered if their environment does not support their progress.

As we know, the US was founded for the purpose of people having freedom within the laws, the opportunity to progress as far as their individual capability, effort and talent allows. In recent times, I sense there's a feeling of resentment in the air about the idea regarding freedom when people are successful. Financial constraints/burdens (due to everyone else's needs) are making it harder for one to excel. If a child is born with a silver spoon in his mouth, it is because someone before him paved his way (if he turns out capable enough to expand on his good fortune). In the US nobody should dictate to anybody else what they should or shouldn't give imo. Be happy if someone is successful at taking care of their own so as not to become your burden. As we can see, many very wealthy individuals are generous beyond what most of us will ever be capable of earning let alone give away. If a wealthy individual is greedy, that's their choice imo.

What I feel strongly about though is the tolerance of corruption, trickery or holding another down due to specific people/group greed, control or threats. That is wrong and causes much harm within societies. Whenever you have a group of individuals and one or two are not willing to do their share to accomplish the task at hand, a problem emerges. Every situation can be broken down and examined on a small scale and then be applied on a larger scale in order to get the big picture. Sometimes people get what they get because they deserve nothing more due to their own unwillingness to contribute in the first place.

When others point a finger at the US, I become defensive. I feel we want to help other countries and do so continually. When we are criticized, I want to retreat. Good thing I'm not in charge. We owe no one really. That said, generosity is good.

It troubles me when people tear down prosperity. What do they want? For us to become like Haiti and be unable to help anybody let alone ourselves.

I am troubled with the fact that San Jay Gupta reported 2 days in a row that doctors are asked to pack up and leave for security reasons.(how many times can they do that?) Yet there seems to be no real security issues. :waitasec:
I am troubled by the fact that they are not helping us help them....And I was made aware tonight by a lady who is Haitian and has lived in NY since she was young and had adopted a Haitian baby and tried to bring packages to the orphanage prior to the devastation and was given the run around to get all sorts of papers filed and she did all that - then when they had all the papers in order she went down with the shipment (they did not expect her there and thought they can allocate the shipment wherever they want)
and the shipment was not allowed to go to the orphanage. This woman had to leave it in Haiti.
I do begin tonight to question their government, or if I would give to them again. I want to see what will happen with what they received to date.
So your question is a great one. The world is gathering a lot of money and resources.
BUT will the people benefit....:waitasec: Yes I do worry.

In some strange way it reminds me a little bit (not really) of FEMA and Katrina here in the USA
They had thousands of trailer homes ready for Katrina survivors sitting on parking lots while the people never got them. and slept in school cafeterias, and church benches. those trailer homes eventually became rusted, and useless.

 

[EmMomma]

BBM- I will never agree - first hand experience with RC from 9/11

REALLY?! :silenced:
It depresses the h^ll out of me to think that what little bit of money I can give could be misused.